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Forum » More General Categories » Sports » **** Official FIFA World Cup 2018 Russia ****
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Thread: **** Official FIFA World Cup 2018 Russia ****

post 1553268531 06-07-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted By TranceBrah89⏩
ok here we go

Serbia beats Costa Rica and Swiss, lose to Brasil, we make it to next round k thx
Costa Rica and Serbia will be interesting to watch. Navas is tought to score on.
post 1553280171 06-07-2018, 10:36 AM
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Spain squad is too old. Costa isn't finishing the tournament without a red. Maybe Assensio becomes a star the way James did.
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post 1553283251 06-07-2018, 11:10 AM
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disappointing Sane isnt included in the germany squad... Even more disappointing that Sane knowing the style of play germany has didnt try to adjust so that he could be included in the squad, that dude is a beast on the ball.
post 1553546591 06-11-2018, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted By joofdisciple⏩
disappointing Sane isnt included in the germany squad... Even more disappointing that Sane knowing the style of play germany has didnt try to adjust so that he could be included in the squad, that dude is a beast on the ball.
Dunno how much adjustment he could make.
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post 1553564371 06-11-2018, 08:37 AM
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Brasil did not look good yesterday. 10 individual contributors but no team dynamic.
post 1553569931 06-11-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted By Jyeatbvg⏩
He'll always be in Messi's shadow, but I do think he'll go down as one of the GOAT MFers. Leading that Spanish Golden Generation, in addition to his stellar club career, has pretty much cemented him as a top 15 (maybe even top 10) player ever. Some say he's the best player to never win Ballon D'or.
Iniesta still netted the 2010 World Cup winning goal, and many huge solo efforts at Barca (2009 CL vs Chelsea). I don't think he's in Messi's shadow at all even if he didn't win a Ballon d'or.
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post 1553570391 06-11-2018, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted By CaliSuperSport⏩
Iniesta still netted the 2010 World Cup winning goal, and many huge solo efforts at Barca (2009 CL vs Chelsea). I don't think he's in Messi's shadow at all even if he didn't win a Ballon d'or.
He will absolutely always be in Messi's shadow. Not a knock against him, but this era's Barcelona will always be Messi's team. Just like Real Madrid will always be Ronaldo's team, as good as Bale and others have been. You think Ronaldo first, then the rest. Messi first, then the rest. Messi's arguably the greatest player of all time, every player who ever played with Messi will be in his shadow (national team and club).

Sorry mate, but it's true. And I'm a huge fan of Iniesta.

Spain, I think that's a different story. That squad is known more for its team play rather than individual efforts. People will remember the core (Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, David Villa, Sergio Ramos, etc.).
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post 1553571011 06-11-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted By Jyeatbvg⏩
He will absolutely always be in Messi's shadow. Not a knock against him, but this era's Barcelona will always be Messi's team. Just like Real Madrid will always be Ronaldo's team, as good as Bale and others have been. You think Ronaldo first, then the rest. Messi first, then the rest. Messi's arguably the greatest player of all time, every player who ever played with Messi will be in his shadow (national team and club).

Sorry mate, but it's true. And I'm a huge fan of Iniesta.

Spain, I think that's a different story. That squad is known more for its team play rather than individual efforts. People will remember the core (Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, David Villa, Sergio Ramos, etc.).
lol not really dude. Anytime Iniesta comes into a convo, his personal achievements and individual skill is referenced, and Messi doesn't have to be mentioned. He still has the one thing Messi doesn't and HE scored the winning goal.

Neymar on the other hand, is an example of someone being in Messi's shadow because he's a forward in a team that used False 9... who couldn't handle not being the main man.
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post 1553573181 06-11-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By CaliSuperSport⏩
lol not really dude. Anytime Iniesta comes into a convo, his personal achievements and individual skill is referenced, and Messi doesn't have to be mentioned. He still has the one thing Messi doesn't and HE scored the winning goal.

Neymar on the other hand, is an example of someone being in Messi's shadow because he's a forward in a team that used False 9... who couldn't handle not being the main man.
You mention his personal and individual achievements, but how can you forget club achievements? Every time someone brings up his club achievements, it will have been with Messi's team. Same way Rodman will always be in Jordan's shadow, or Kyrie (on the Cavs) will always be in Lebron's. These guys are top notch, generational talents, but their club achievements will always be shadowed. Of course you can reference personal achievements without mentioning anyone else...because they're personal.

Again, I think international play is a bit different because they were never teammates. But since the discussion initially started with GOAT talk, club achievements are probably more important.
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post 1553582871 06-11-2018, 12:27 PM
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Iniesta is in no pundit's GOAT talks.

A top 5 would usually go like...

1. Pele
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Maradona
5. Zidane


Then you have Cruyff, Di Stefano, Platini and Iniesta and Xavi trading spaces on list.
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post 1553595561 06-11-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By Jyeatbvg⏩
You mention his personal and individual achievements, but how can you forget club achievements? Every time someone brings up his club achievements, it will have been with Messi's team. Same way Rodman will always be in Jordan's shadow, or Kyrie (on the Cavs) will always be in Lebron's. These guys are top notch, generational talents, but their club achievements will always be shadowed. Of course you can reference personal achievements without mentioning anyone else...because they're personal.

Again, I think international play is a bit different because they were never teammates. But since the discussion initially started with GOAT talk, club achievements are probably more important.
Yeah but people don't hinge their opinions of Iniesta on Messi, which is the impression I was getting from your post. He's often evaluated in a standalone fashion being the genius playmaker he is. Plus everyone sees that he augmented Messi and made him better, rather than played some minor supporting role.

I don't even think he receives less praise because of Messi, except concerning world player awards. The Blaugrana give him his dues. but compare Iniesta's tenure to Neymar's. The latter was the one who truly felt like he was living in a shadow.
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post 1553611191 06-11-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Brad_Pitt⏩
Iniesta is in no pundit's GOAT talks.

A top 5 would usually go like...

1. Pele
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Maradona
5. Zidane


Then you have Cruyff, Di Stefano, Platini and Iniesta and Xavi trading spaces on list.
Woah there boyo. Let me refer you to the official Football GOAT top 5 list that's been updated since summer 2016.

1a. Pele 1b. Maradona
2. C. Ronaldo
3. Lionel Messi
4. Cruyff
5. Beckenbuer

As of June 11, 2018 this list still stands. Always look for this list for reference boyo. Shoot me a pm if you're ever in need of it incase you forget.

Also, Iniesta won a World Cup and two Euro's without Messi. I'd say Iniesta needs Messi less than Messi needs Iniesta.
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post 1553631471 06-12-2018, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted By Brad_Pitt⏩
Iniesta is in no pundit's GOAT talks.

A top 5 would usually go like...

1. Pele
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Maradona
5. Zidane


Then you have Cruyff, Di Stefano, Platini and Iniesta and Xavi trading spaces on list.
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post 1553634611 06-12-2018, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted By Rai9⏩
Woah there boyo. Let me refer you to the official Football GOAT top 5 list that's been updated since summer 2016.

1a. Pele 1b. Maradona
2. C. Ronaldo
3. Lionel Messi
4. Cruyff
5. Beckenbuer

As of June 11, 2018 this list still stands. Always look for this list for reference boyo. Shoot me a pm if you're ever in need of it incase you forget.

Also, Iniesta won a World Cup and two Euro's without Messi. I'd say Iniesta needs Messi less than Messi needs Iniesta.
Still no Iniesta in your list...which is my point.
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post 1553634761 06-12-2018, 03:40 AM
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It goes to Europe once again, Germany or France - but I expect Germany-Brazil once again in the finals.

No idea why some are still high on Spain, they are on the decline with their golden age. Unless Ramos injures every major player they face...
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post 1553635551 06-12-2018, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted By Rai9⏩
Woah there boyo. Let me refer you to the official Football GOAT top 5 list that's been updated since summer 2016.

1a. Pele 1b. Maradona
2. C. Ronaldo
3. Lionel Messi
4. Cruyff
5. Beckenbuer

As of June 11, 2018 this list still stands. Always look for this list for reference boyo. Shoot me a pm if you're ever in need of it incase you forget.

Also, Iniesta won a World Cup and two Euro's without Messi. I'd say Iniesta needs Messi less than Messi needs Iniesta.
Your 1 through 3 is spot on for now, ever since the the summer of '16 and even more so after the last few CL campaigns. This years Madrid squad would be going home with nothing without CR7, instead they were in the position to complete the first threepeat in the CL era which they capitalised on, while the Cules have a fairly empty domestic double to talk about.

Iniesta isn't in Messi's shadow because he has had success without Messi. Spain was never a powerhouse until he, Xavi and Villa set the international game on fire. Clutch situations like the 09 CL, the winner in the WC final etc. His resume is just as impressive as Messi's - but he doesn't have the shiny goals and Golden Boots. The 2010 BDO should have been his, however him & Xavi split the Spain vote which let Leo skittle through.

It's simply the curse of comparing a midfield player with a forward.
post 1553636281 06-12-2018, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted By CaliSuperSport⏩
Yeah but people don't hinge their opinions of Iniesta on Messi, which is the impression I was getting from your post. He's often evaluated in a standalone fashion being the genius playmaker he is. Plus everyone sees that he augmented Messi and made him better, rather than played some minor supporting role.

I don't even think he receives less praise because of Messi, except concerning world player awards. The Blaugrana give him his dues. but compare Iniesta's tenure to Neymar's. The latter was the one who truly felt like he was living in a shadow.
Originally Posted By AntiTroller⏩
Your 1 through 3 is spot on for now, ever since the the summer of '16 and even more so after the last few CL campaigns. This years Madrid squad would be going home with nothing without CR7, instead they were in the position to complete the first threepeat in the CL era which they capitalised on, while the Cules have a fairly empty domestic double to talk about.

Iniesta isn't in Messi's shadow because he has had success without Messi. Spain was never a powerhouse until he, Xavi and Villa set the international game on fire. Clutch situations like the 09 CL, the winner in the WC final etc. His resume is just as impressive as Messi's - but he doesn't have the shiny goals and Golden Boots. The 2010 BDO should have been his, however him & Xavi split the Spain vote which let Leo skittle through.

It's simply the curse of comparing a midfield player with a forward.
It is clear that we have differing opinions of what "in someone's shadow" means. Bolded portion above is the point I'm trying to make. Barcelona will always be Messi's team in part because of his goals/trophies (i.e. because he was a flashy forward), despite what Iniesta did for the team. I don't agree that Messi was less useful to the team than Iniesta, but I can see why that opinion exists. But it doesn't matter, because the current gen Barca willalwaysbe regarded as Messi's team. In 10, 20, 50 years, people will talk about Messi's team. When people think of the greatest teams of all time, they will think Messi with a supporting cast of Iniesta, Xavi, etc. If Iniesta played for another squad, he likely could've etched out his legacy to be "the guy" (but his career probably wouldn't have been as impressive).

No one's debating Iniesta's spectacular career. Athletes can be renowned and still be in someone's shadow, these things are not mutually exclusive. Nor is anyone debating that Messi's name comes up any time you talk about Iniesta, especially if you're comparing midfielders and that sort of thing. But when it comes to club achievements, which in my opinion is where a bulk of GOAT type discussions should center around, Barcelona will always be Messi's team. Nobody says "Iniesta led them to the Champions League, etc." even though there's some truth in that. It would sound odd to not mention Messi in such dialogue.
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post 1553643311 06-12-2018, 07:19 AM
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post 1553647261 06-12-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted By Brad_Pitt⏩
Still no Iniesta in your list...which is my point.
For sure Messi is better than Iniesta. No debate there, but Iniesta is in the top 10 maybe top 5 best midfielders ever dude. In fact I don't think I'd take any other midfield duo besides Iniesta and Xavi with perferably Sergio Biscuits in defensive midfield. Basically, Barcelona is Messi's team, but anyone can appreciate that they've had some sick kunts over there years. Iniesta has his own legacy aside from Messi and it's being the GOAT Spanish player along with Xavi.
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post 1553648021 06-12-2018, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted By lsiberian⏩
Costa Rica and Serbia will be interesting to watch. Navas is tought to score on.
agreed, was talking about this with my buddy earlier, if we win both games and lose to Brasil that's all I'm praying for lol
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post 1553655971 06-12-2018, 10:17 AM
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Would be nice to see England FINALLY do something and go deep but I’m not holding my breath....

Germany or France seem to be the safest bets.
post 1553656501 06-12-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted By Brad_Pitt⏩
Iniesta is in no pundit's GOAT talks.

A top 5 would usually go like...

1. Pele
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Maradona
5. Zidane


Then you have Cruyff, Di Stefano, Platini and Iniesta and Xavi trading spaces on list.
Iniesta is a football grandmaster. The type of guy you learn from. I don't see why Ronaldo even gets placed above him. Ronaldo has insane talent, but Iniesta is a God. While Ronaldo is relying on his physical ability to net headers and tap ins, Iniesta is out there creating the play. Iniesta has scored winning goals in finals, don't know if I could say the same for Ronaldo.

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post 1553663611 06-12-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted By Jyeatbvg⏩
It is clear that we have differing opinions of what "in someone's shadow" means. Bolded portion above is the point I'm trying to make. Barcelona will always be Messi's team in part because of his goals/trophies (i.e. because he was a flashy forward), despite what Iniesta did for the team. I don't agree that Messi was less useful to the team than Iniesta, but I can see why that opinion exists. But it doesn't matter, because the current gen Barca willalwaysbe regarded as Messi's team. In 10, 20, 50 years, people will talk about Messi's team. When people think of the greatest teams of all time, they will think Messi with a supporting cast of Iniesta, Xavi, etc. If Iniesta played for another squad, he likely could've etched out his legacy to be "the guy" (but his career probably wouldn't have been as impressive).

No one's debating Iniesta's spectacular career. Athletes can be renowned and still be in someone's shadow, these things are not mutually exclusive. Nor is anyone debating that Messi's name comes up any time you talk about Iniesta, especially if you're comparing midfielders and that sort of thing. But when it comes to club achievements, which in my opinion is where a bulk of GOAT type discussions should center around, Barcelona will always be Messi's team. Nobody says "Iniesta led them to the Champions League, etc." even though there's some truth in that. It would sound odd to not mention Messi in such dialogue.
No worries, though that 2009-2013 Barca squad was a different beast. Even if you took Messi out, they were arguably still the best club in the world (depending on the year). But I don't believe people will simply refer to it as Messi's team. When people look back on that side I have no doubts they will remember and cite often the talents of Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, David Villa, & co. because that roster was filled with world class all time greats - in terms of Barca history and/or world football history. That's my view even as someone who sees Messi as the potential GOAT.
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post 1553667431 06-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By OldGamesBetter⏩
Iniesta is a football grandmaster. The type of guy you learn from. I don't see why Ronaldo even gets placed above him. Ronaldo has insane talent, but Iniesta is a God. While Ronaldo is relying on his physical ability to net headers and tap ins, Iniesta is out there creating the play. Iniesta has scored winning goals in finals, don't know if I could say the same for Ronaldo.

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So Iniesta is a above Ronaldo?
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post 1553667601 06-12-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Rai9⏩
For sure Messi is better than Iniesta. No debate there, but Iniesta is in the top 10 maybe top 5 best midfielders ever dude. In fact I don't think I'd take any other midfield duo besides Iniesta and Xavi with perferably Sergio Biscuits in defensive midfield. Basically, Barcelona is Messi's team, but anyone can appreciate that they've had some sick kunts over there years. Iniesta has his own legacy aside from Messi and it's being the GOAT Spanish player along with Xavi.
I agree with everything you said here.
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post 1553668961 06-12-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted By Brad_Pitt⏩
So Iniesta is a above Ronaldo?
Yes. Ronaldo is a quality player but I've seen him bottle it way too many times in finals for him to be one of the GOATs.

Iniesta on the other hand, consistent. A football grandmaster.
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post 1553670821 06-12-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted By OldGamesBetter⏩
Yes. Ronaldo is a quality player but I've seen him bottle it way too many times in finals for him to be one of the GOATs.

Iniesta on the other hand, consistent. A football grandmaster.
Uhhhh.... not sure how you say that after these last 3 CL campaigns AND a European title (yes, he didn’t play for much of the final game but there was no doubt that he carried his team to that point).
post 1553683531 06-12-2018, 04:24 PM
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#88
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Calling out that ******* who negged me then went on to say Ronaldo won a trophy with Portugal when he didn't even play in the final you retard

Ronaldo has been missing the last few finals at the very least. Last minute tap ins when your team is already 2 goals up doesn't count as a contribution

Keep sucking Ronaldo's nuts. Guy was nowhere to be seen in the CL final vs Liverpool.
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post 1553684291 06-12-2018, 04:37 PM
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#89
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Originally Posted By CaliSuperSport⏩
No worries, though that 2009-2013 Barca squad was a different beast. Even if you took Messi out, they were arguably still the best club in the world (depending on the year). But I don't believe people will simply refer to it as Messi's team. When people look back on that side I have no doubts they will remember and cite often the talents of Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, David Villa, & co. because that roster was filled with world class all time greats - in terms of Barca history and/or world football history. That's my view even as someone who sees Messi as the potential GOAT.
that barca squad was pep's barca, not messi's.
Originally Posted By OldGamesBetter⏩
Yes. Ronaldo is a quality player but I've seen him bottle it way too many times in finals for him to be one of the GOATs.

Iniesta on the other hand, consistent. A football grandmaster.
CR7 has as many CL titles himself as barcelona does in its entire existence. he's 5/6 in CL finals and 1/2 in international finals (and that's being harsh including 2004 when he was like 11 years old). the minutes he scores goals is highest in between the 76th minute and the final whistle - he has a clutch reputation unlike the argentine.

messi is 0/4 in international finals and he's been invisible in all 4, even missing the first PK in one of them.

so if you want to use that trashcan logic for iniesta > ronaldo then messi is about 15th in the all-time list, which simply isn't true.

you're fukking 21, you were 10 years old when ronaldo scoring 31 goals as a winger during the prime of the PL. he was unassisted on the majority of those goals as well and created goals out of thin air.

lmfao. negged.
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post 1553684521 06-12-2018, 04:43 PM
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#90
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Originally Posted By wifestealer⏩
that barca squad was pep's barca, not messi's.



CR7 has as many CL titles himself as barcelona does in its entire existence. he's 5/6 in CL finals and 1/2 in international finals (and that's being harsh including 2004 when he was like 11 years old). the minutes he scores goals is highest in between the 76th minute and the final whistle - he has a clutch reputation unlike the argentine.

messi is 0/4 in international finals and he's been invisible in all 4, even missing the first PK in one of them.

so if you want to use that trashcan logic for iniesta > ronaldo then messi is about 15th in the all-time list, which simply isn't true.

you're fukking 21, you were 10 years old when ronaldo scoring 31 goals as a winger during the prime of the PL. he was unassisted on the majority of those goals as well and created goals out of thin air.

lmfao. negged.
because football is all about stats. strong understanding of football. watch a game of football and then come back
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