All of my guy friends consistently had GF's 6 years ago. Now they're lucky if they get a text back.

I think that the battle we are fighting now is mostly socially and psychologically based. Although the current way boys are being brought up does leave a bit to be desired physically (ie not as much value placed on manual labor and exercise for young boys) I see many healthy looking young guys with decent builds.

I think this war is economic, social, and psychological. Women don't need us. They can get a job anywhere we can get a job. They can get a degree in anything we can get a degree in. Guys will always open the door for them no matter what. Guys will pay money to have sex with them. Women get more followers on social media.

Now, I don't necessarily have a problem with this in entirety. I'm straight and I find women attractive. I love their smaller stature, breasts, higher pitched voices, pretty feet, their emotion, long hair, and femininity, etc. BUT, are our traits being celebrated in that same way? I'm not sure about that. I think that on a basic level, yes they do still find our masculinity attractive, and they respect it, but at the end of the day they will wait for the perfect guy. Its like any flaw we have as men is being amplified, but we as men accept women and their many flaws.

That's where my karma argument comes into it. Men of days past have been unfair at times. And it seems like unfortunately women are getting payback

I also wanted to throw in that there are record number of men BECOMING women, (transsexuals) and gay men now. Men are literally becoming women and selling their butts for sex because they think they have better economic prospects that way. And men are sitting in offices designing virtual reality sex partners to sleep with. Things are actually worse than we all think. We're gonna need to be strong to get through this.

Lmao. That gif is great.
Keep doing you, Otaku. Life is too short to worry about anything else.

Take a look at the casual encounters page from Craigslist. I used to come on here every now and then and find a girl to sleep with. In the w4m category (women 4 men). most of them were escorts but every now and then you could find some that just wanted to fuk for fun. As time went by less and less women started posting there. There are only 400 listings now as w4m, but over 2000 in m4m (men 4 men) and 1500 in t4m (trans 4 men).... Open your eyes.
Not to mention, there are a lot of guys that will swear to their grave that they are straight, maybe even badmouth homosexuals when theyre in public, but secretly theyre on craigslist having sex with each other because they feel they cant get women....Whats going on nowadays is very real

Women 4 men


Men 4 men


trans 4 men

People who are deprived of their needs do pop off and can hurt others. Another thread described today’s society perfectly. You, in today’s day and age, NEVER have to leave your home if you don’t want to. Amazon can deliver your groceries, you can talk to people online, and many do through social media. You can entertain yourself with others playing video games, watch Netflix with others online, and satisfy any carnal desire with the click of a mouse—all without ever having to leave your home.

I think the current epidemic of thirsty guys comes from the fact that we don’t interact with one another anymore. We need outreach programs for men, where we go hiking, hunt in the woods, learn some survival skills together, and for those men in the group with boys—rites of passage. Teach the boy collectively how to be a man, how to take care of himself, and navigate this world. How to be self contained—his own island. This is distinctive from checking out—men check out of society because of the reality check that we get about it as we get older. We teach him to never check into society’s expectations in the first place. To pursue his own dreams and if in the process of becoming his own man, a woman comes along, he will have the self sufficiency to not become victim to certain pitfalls. I feel like we as men need a community of like minded individuals that can look out for one another.

I think if we had that—we’d be less likely to get bitter from the L’s that we take, and more likely to head to these group meets having a laugh about the whole thing instead of today, where you get rejected, ghosted, or flaked on and you go home to your apartment dejected with no one to tell but your forum buddies.

Beautiful post.

Good luck applying it before Salon or Vox or NowThis rips it apart calling it glass ceiling meetings and what not

I don’t wanna rain on everyone’s pity parade, but this experiment doesn’t tell the whole truth about sexual/relationship dynamics...

Keep in mind that these women didn’tknowthe guy. They were shown a CV and were dissapointed in his looks.

Had these women met the dude normally, spent time with him, gotten to know him, shared experiences together, etc, there’s a chance one or two of them may have eventually fallen in love with him.

I’m pretty pessimistic about dating, but I still think it’s worth shining a light on any hope that exists, no matter how small.

LOL cope harder. They would have still blown him off in a bar, party, or social setting. He never would have gotten his foot in the door point blank period because they never opened the door.

If they’re all complete kunts, then highly likely, but perhaps one or two of them are half decent human beings and take the time to get to know another person...

Regardless, the point of my reply was to highlight that getting to know someone can change/affect how you feel about them.

It’s important to remember today’s societal structure when it comes to dating. Meeting people the way you describe above is now the exception—not the rule. Most of us attempt to date online, and we are less social and more on our screens now more than ever.

What do you think tinder is? Bumble? Those apps put people in the exact situation I described in the experiment. It doesn’t matter what you put in your profile, we all judge each other based on primal traits built into us as men or women.

Talking about hope and such is a mistake because it sets an expectation of fairness—the opposite of what biology is. It isn’t fair from our perspective, just like it isn’t fair from the perspective of a baby deer being eaten by a wolf. Biology isn’t right or wrong, merely reality.

As men we need to learn to live in reality—not in the expectations that we have for the world or that other people have for us.

Wrong.

pretty much all women when it comes to longterm relationship STILL want their guy to earn more than them. Even 6 figure earning women. They will still **** 40k/year Chads, but it's more for sex/flings.

This is another thing that removes a large percentage of men. especially since young women are actually outearning young men and are much more successful on average. young men get jobs based on having a connection, or a valued skillset. young women get jobs just because people enjoy having more young women around and boosts morale. the necesary qualifications for them arn't nearly as high and any easy job that doesn't require something overly technical goes to them. how much do you think males outnumber females among NEETs(an actual measurable title rather than "FA")

Unfortunately online dating is like a casino, odds aren't in your favor. For every 1 woman there are 15 men. You know what that means

None of this negates my point.

Your outlook is cute. Stay out there tiger, keep approaching, and keeping taking those L will someone convince a girl to see sexual value in you. I'd rather get paid or play PUBG my guy.

My outlook is that getting to know someone can change how you think/feel about them...

I’m not sure why this is so hard for some of you to believe in, especially considering it’s likely you all have countless examples from your own lives.

Its never made me go "golly gee whiz well now I want to sleep with this person when from the beginning until now I didnt!"

Physical attractiveness is key in sex. Point blank period. Thats just the reality.

That was my experience ...Repped

Congrats. You arent the majority of women. Tons of us out here are getting frowned at in bars/clubs, ghosted, not texted back, "your a nice guy but" no matter what we do.

I also find it hilarious ever girl in this section magically doesn't care about looks and their partners magically personality kept it going. People will tell themselves anything to appear at the moral highground.

I’m not sure congratulations are in order to be honest

My husband is an introvert, he’s not my previously considered physical type ..but he does meet my height and hair colour norms and he’s certainly good looking to me, we also share values, education level, work ethic but not political views, workout styles or hobbies

I can’t look at him now and see him any other way but attractive so it’s odd to think that for a number of years he was just some guy I bumped into with mutual friends occasionally and said hi to.

Maybe we both grew to the right time and place and it clicked without warning

Where you (parts of your generation) have it wrong IMO is thinking that a ONS or a FWB is a normal thing and that it develops into LTR...Clubbing scene, bars, hook up apps why do you think you are going to get anywhere beyond initial physical attraction ..they are hook up places

I consider how you’ve evolved the party scene into all life.. can’t help but think you start with that type of lack of respect or commitment and make little to no effort to get to know each other you get what you deserve

Looks decide if she will spend time even lerning his name.

And when they start talking if he says something dumb, or even somehing she does not like or understand, he is dead. Out of her life.

If she decides you are too uptight and closed, you are dead.

If she thinks you are too talkative, you are dead.

It is fcking mine field. No way to please a woman.

Your experience doesn’t reflect reality, unfortunately.
Mine doesn’t either to be fair, which is why we must rely on what’s real.
And in reality, you wouldn’t be with your husband if you weren’t physically attracted to him.

Not unless they like you a lot lol

I am. Just saying that it wasn’t instant

Like everyone, I’ve experienced that gut wrenching initial attraction that is basically just lust... I know the difference. That instant lust/pheremonal attraction isn’t the only way into a fulfilling relationship. Nor is it necessarily the precursor to the best sex.

That’s the point most of the frustrated men are making here rabbit.
They believe as you do—that lasting relationships come from taking it slow and respecting each other’s boundaries.
But what happens when a guy actually does what you’ve suggested above? What happens when they try to get to know someone a bit BEFORE sleeping with them?

A recent thread on here shows what happens.
Girl got pissed and left the dudes house, nexting him because he didn’t feel like sleeping with her.

And what did we do when he came here confused about the whole thing? We shat on him for it.

From the perspective of these men, neither the women they are dating or society want us to take that time to build attraction and mutual respect. He needs to make it physical NOW, or forever be called “*******” “weak” “stupid “.

How to do that?

I tell you what, i’ll meet you half way...

There MIGHT be an argument to be made that those withextremephysical imperfections (e.g. the 5 foot 2 dude, or the 20 stone woman) cannot find a way back from it...

But if you’re distinctly average or even slightly below average (which, I imagine, are the categories most of us posting fall into), then it’s likely that if a woman gets to know you, and you have a redeeming personality, it will go some way toward helping her fall for you...

Happy now?

I've given up. I've come to accept that it is just nature minimizing some sort of potential energy curve that changes due to changes in the environment. In an abstract sense, we all represent potential solutions to the evolutionary problem of survival and reproduction. Some of us are more efficient at these tasks and will end up surviving to reproduce. The next generation will inherit some of these traits. In doing so, the system will proceed in response to the environment to produce solutions that are better at survival and reproduction. Those of us who were bad solutions will be culled from the pool. That is all life is. That's all we are. A bullet to the head, brains on the floor, raindrops falling to the ground, tide goes in, tide comes out, and at the end of it all, a giant rock just goes around the sun one more fuking time. We are just transients, and life is just a far-from equilibrium phenomenon that will run its course. Eventually, everything will be destroyed, and this will all have been ultimately pointless. We fear our fates, but we do not lament the deaths of the plants or animals that we consume, nor do we feel sorrow for the bacteria that must be destroyed so we may live. Life is a giant competition. Nature is brutal and cruel, and it only rewards the strong and crushes the weak and inferior. We are all just methods of replication, and all of our human accomplishments, like art, science, engineering, etc are just a means to that end. Every feeling and emotion is for the same purpose. We are just soulless biological automatons in the void. When a fly fails to find a mate, and drops dead to the ground, nobody cares. It was a bad solution. So was Timothy. Do not cry for him. There will be many more like him. There is nothing special or sacred about human life. Genetically inferior solutions will be purged from the pool.

lol you all are a bunch of sad fukers

You just described the friend zone. When she tells the guy if I'm 40 and still not married I'll get with you ,But she really isn't considering you.