High Standards for looks. check.


In addition needing to meet her physical ideal, you then need to have have the personality, ambition, career, etc.

woman want the perfect "catch". the sad thing, a lot of them don't have much to offer in return. if you want to reel in a great guy that meets your physical criteria and other, you are going to need way more than your looks to keep him.

Not true. One of my best friends is 26 and I just hooked her up with a guy shes been dating for 5 months now. Hes her first boyfriend - first everything. More women who have never been with a guy than you think. My friend isnt ugly or a bum by the way, she just never put herself out there.

High standards for looks? Lmao.

I have an eclectic taste in what i find attractive. I like all types of looks. My boyfriend is a thin, tall, half ginger/half blonde lol. My own sister roasts me for how he looks. lol He may not be everyones cup of tea, but I find him very attractive.

If he had a terrible attitude and a low paying job, i wouldnt be with him despite the fact that I find him attractive.

It's supply and demand. Guys go for women in general. Women can pick and choose the best if they want.

interesting, my other thought about that has been that women are less vocal about it and don't vent about it as much as guys do

ya yet people say, well too many though, say our role gives us choice while girls don't have that, annoys the bejesuz out of me

I bet he is better looking objectively than you play it off as. I often find this the case.

lets turn this around, would you be with him if he had a great attitude and high paying job but didn't find him attractive physically at least? probably not.

It's a downright myth that personality can completely override a guy not passing a womens' physical attraction threshold. this threshold for women is usually picky, and based on things you cannot change like height, race, facial aesthetics. Being close friends with many women over the past 12+ years as they dated around, i can't tell you how many times these women have met amazing guys that they have chemistry with yet said "but I'm just not physically attracted to them". then turned around and dated a guy who they had far less in common with but is "their type" physicaly. I'm sure this doesn't apply to ALL women, but its the norm rather than the exception.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here - I know so many great, outgoing, and confident men who struggle with women because they are shorter/a bit overweight/wrong race and guys who are basic as phuck and get a ton of attention. There is this guy at my work and literally EVERY girl that meets him that is new is like "oooo who is that guy, he is hot". he could have ANY of them if he wanted. he has basic social skills, is nothing super special personality wise- but thats all you need if you are "hawt".

how many relationships have failed to form JUST BECAUSE a guy is 5'7" instead of 6' or asian instead of white? more than you can think of

OP sounds like he doesn't even lift or have a 6 pack.

obviously no 6-pack

Honestly - this seems like a SJW kind of situation - on the misc the sad minority seem to shout the loudest.

Always with the complaint that male-female relations are unfair etc. That's life folks... Not everyone wins a prize, there is no medal for mediocrity in the real world. Society has shaped us into what you see today, survival of the fittest is no longer a thing, so we are flooded with the less than fit (myself included). Women are still genetically programmed to select the best option presented, monogamy has for the most part allowed for the 80% to find a suitable mate and breed.

And this is still the case for the vast vast majority of people, average joe meets plain jane and procreates. Look at any normal distribution curve and realize that perhaps the online dating/tinderish style of meeting people portrays a wildly skewed selection process that is just not the reality in the vast majority of cases. Go out into the world and do **** that you enjoy - that gives you genuine internal personal satisfaction. you are very likely to meet someone there that, gasp, shares your interests and will make a good choice as a mate/life partner because they aresimilarto you (note, not similar looking, but actually similar in being).

Tinder is Chads game, it's a playing field in which the deck is stacked against the everyman, but its also such an insignificantly small slice of society represented there. When you reduce a successful relationship down to core principles, if you want it to succeed there needs to be an overlap of interests and a somewhat selfless attitude from both parties. If your interests are so limited as to not allow any overlap with the majority of the females of the species then its going to naturally be harder for you to find a mate. Diversify, grow yourself into a useful, interesting, human being and **** gets easier.

I swear the self perpetuating, whiny, drivel that I sometimes read by accident here portrays the male half of our species as pale shadows of the generations preceding us.

I agree with you somewhat.
Women do have a job in dating.
Just one job.
And trust me....there's a large amount of them that f*ck it up lol.

Screening/vetting the men that approach them.

Women of this generation are absolutely terrible at this and it blows up in their face, potentially ruining their entire lives lololol.

These are usually the ones you see crying about "all men are trash", "men are just scum pigs", "there are no good men left", "it's not my fault that all of my relationships crash and burn and leave me with babies"

The lack off accountability is absolutely hilarious lol.

ya I remember I asked one dating coach, how do women have to learn how to date or get a boyfriend when they don't have to initiate anything, he said "that's a very good question, they need to know how to screen a guy", but people say guys need to know how to screen girls as well, specifically, how do we screen when we are the ones that do the approaching, asking out, initiating, etc.?

But ya I feel it's primarily guys who have to learn, because the way you learn in life is by applying, practicing, doing, and since girls are typically passive, they don't have to take any social action on their part, it makes you feel that they don't have to be the ones to learn, or they just learn faster, quicker by doing nothing because they are passive.

I wonder where the desire comes from or feeling of stuff feeling unfair, is it natural and instinctive or is it the result of poor parental upbringing or societal conditioning?

I just got rejected by a single mom today. I make 50,000 a year, drive a new truck, 6’2” and have better hair now than I did at 18. I don’t even care about rejection anymore because it’s bound to happen more often than not.

With obesity as rampant as it is, the average skinny chick under 30 gets more attention now than a man could ever hope to. Just gotta roll with the punches and keep going after them. Eventually you’ll strike gold.

At least that has always been my experience.

However it might not get easier. That is the problem right there. I don't think I'm owed anything. At the end of the day I understand the universe, reality, or whatever you want to call it doesn't care about me. However even outside of Tinder many of us still do so laughingly bad that you'd think our lives were sitcoms.

sounds like women on average learn that faster than men learn their part on average

sex robots are legit becoming reality. The misc likes to joke around with sex robots and how FAs will turn to them, but they will legit change the dating world in due time. Should be interesting

it should be, that way the burden of being the hunter won't be on our shoulders anymore

It's much easier to blame something that's out of their control, though. And only focusing on the negative and anticipating guaranteed failure protects their ego- albeit does nothing to better their situation in reality- and gives them a false sense of control ("see, Iknewthis would happen").

I really hope sex robots are there at least when I'm very old. I think a sex robot can help you go out of bed and help you with all kind of stuff that you can't do anymore once you are old and you can have sex with it. Will make beeing old really a lot better then its now. Just look at how old people are treated by caretakers. They simply have no time to give everyone the time they need but a sex robot can take some of that stuff off their shoulders.

I think Op describes how social dynamics work for both men and women regardless of the environment of interaction. I can observe this in my workplace that the most beautiful women get the more attention from men. Heck, every woman who is a 6 or 7 has a bunch of coworkers orbiters around her, and keep in mind that some of these women are even married, while most men we’re almost invisible and most women don’t bother to deal with us, with exception the typical cooperation for our work.

Most of these interactions maybe won’t lead anywhere, but it doesn’t really matter because these interactions constitute the real social dynamics between men and women. Women have it easy, men no.

Yes guys have to start the relationship.

[QUOTE=lukepeter post_id=1547616201]Tinder is Chads game, it's a playing field in which the deck is stacked against the everyman, but its also such an insignificantly small slice of society represented there. When you reduce a successful relationship down to core principles, if you want it to succeed there needs to be an overlap of interests and a somewhat selfless attitude from both parties. If your interests are so limited as to not allow any overlap with the majority of the females of the species then its going to naturally be harder for you to find a mate. Diversify, grow yourself into a useful, interesting, human being and **** gets easier.

I swear the self perpetuating, whiny, drivel that I sometimes read by accident here portrays the male half of our species as pale shadows of the generations preceding us.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=pontoonboat post_id=1548984551]It's much easier to blame something that's out of their control, though. And only focusing on the negative and anticipating guaranteed failure protects their ego- albeit does nothing to better their situation in reality- and gives them a false sense of control ("see, I[i]knew[/i]this would happen").


[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/doUu2ByZDbPYQ/giphy.gif[img][/QUOTE]I will agree Tinder is a Chads game. I will also agree that hobbies, interests, and career fields definitely affect the amount of women you will come across and dictate your success.

That said both of you piss me off with this "whiny men ****". There is nothing whiny or etc about simply talking about situation that seems confusing and out of this world. Alot of the "whiny" people in this thread or even section are combat veterans, sons of immigrants that came to America and excelled in Universities and etc.

We arent lazy
We aren't "bitches" or "whiners"
And PonToonBoat, most of us arent even negative. I guess being silent or delusion about a situation is positivity to you but it isnt to me.

Most of us put in more work and effort into life than most other people.

You know what, let's just all work on ourselves. Once we've accomplished our goals and ambitions all that other crap with come later.

Lmao. That's what I said after college.

Yea, absolutely, but working for yourself it takes time and energy and you don’t have time to pursue women. I’m living in Europe, I have bachelor degree and 2 master degrees, I have a decent day job and on top of that I hit the gym almost every day.

So, I don’t have the time and energy to approach 25 bitches per day as some dating coaches suggest to us. So, for an average looking dude like me life isn’t easy with women even if my life is on point. So, when the opportunity through my social circle pops out I can’t miss the shot, because the next opportunity maybe will appear after one or 2 years. And exactly at this point the looks enters heavy into the game, because you have that one single shot and if you miss it then it is over for you for the next months or even years.

The alternative solution for me is the bars and every Friday approach girls at bars like crazy, but the results aren’t that good so far, besides that those women at bars aren’t girlfriend material, in most cases. As for the dating apps lol, if you’re not Chad status then it doesn’t make any sense.

only works for some people. I set some nice goals like 10 years ago based on things in life that mattered to me.

yup got my degree. nothing. got my first decent job nothing. improved my physique. nothing. got my dream job and 6 figures before 30. nothing. bought a nice pad. nothing.

the attention from women has been pretty much the same or on the decline since i was 22.

you have to improve the things that help with attracting women, in order for this too work.

It all depends on two factors:

#1 how much overlap there is in your improvement activities and interactions with woman.
#2 the delta between your current "value" and the value you need to achieve in order to get the kind of woman you want. If improving yourself doesn't close this gap...I got some bad newz

Yes people often use the reasons, which bother and annoy me, because guys are hunters or because men Court women, it's been like that traditionally or just goes back to when men Court women, it feels me with a lot of anger and resentment but I'm afraid we just have to live with it

After I read the first line, I realized OP was autistic and didnt read the rest.

"Men need to be ready to lead an interaction. But women need to know how flirt and be charming as well, otherwise a guy will lose interest eventually, even if sex is great."

That doesn't make sense because obviously that makes women passive in the interaction, so I guess maybe women only need to know how to keep a guy they don't need to know how to get a guy

Another response I heard from somewhere is: "Women do play a role in the attraction process. It’s like a dance, men have to lead but women still need to know their steps."

Okay, still not sure how it works from the other perspective, don't know what those certain steps are.