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Forum » More General Categories » Misc. » You're UN-AMERICAN if you don't support McDonald's workers getting $15/hr
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Thread: You're UN-AMERICAN if you don't support McDonald's workers getting $15/hr

post 1440810111 05-07-2016, 07:13 PM
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If they wan $15 an hour why not apply somewhere that will pay that? I mean, if they want that then surely they have $15 an hour skills right? Then it should be a non-issue.
post 1440810371 05-07-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
Reality sucks, doesn't it? It's not for the employer to take care of these people. They should turn to welfare or charity.
gofundme and welfare is a great supplemental income for those who are full-time fry cooks.
:D
post 1440810641 05-07-2016, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Really? You should send me a resume.



Let's assume I agree with your professor. He has explained the mechanism by which the growth is transferred to the owners of the capital.

We are talking about what is fair AND what is the most beneficial distribution of the wealth growth for the overall health of th economy.
"Fairness" lol. If they own the capital, then they get the revenue from it. The wants/needs of those who have less don't give them entitlement to other people's stuff. I'm gonna reference Moses here and say, "Thou shalt not steal."

However, there was a similar lag in wages during the industrial revolution when machines were first used in production. It took decades for wage productivity to catch up with capital productivity, but it did, eventually. The issue now is that we keep having wave after wave of technological innovation and labor productivity is having a hard time keeping up.
post 1440811031 05-07-2016, 07:20 PM
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OP, did you know that most minimum wage jobs are held by teenagers? Literally if you're an adult who has a career at McDonalds you might as well LDAR
post 1440811141 05-07-2016, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By colbski⏩
gofundme and welfare is a great supplemental income for those who are full-time fry cooks.
Yes. It is. It's sad that some adults have no other option to be more productive. But I would favor welfare or charity over forcing a company to give employees more money that they aren't worth and didn't earn.
post 1440811711 05-07-2016, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted By fox994⏩
They literally have a job a monkey could do. Unskilled labor should not earn what skilled labor positions make. If you want more money do something else. Negs on r/c OP
completely false. Ive had a lot of mcdonalds over the years and quality from store to store and from different times of the day swings wildly.

It can range from delicious to revolting depending on who's working.

Its a very hard job too especially at the locations where it's busy as fuk nonstop all day.
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post 1440811771 05-07-2016, 07:25 PM
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Read thread. Read OP name and description. Everything makes perfect sense.
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post 1440812311 05-07-2016, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
"Fairness" lol. If they own the capital, then they get the revenue from it. The wants/needs of those who have less don't give them entitlement to other people's stuff. I'm gonna reference Moses here and say, "Thou shalt not steal."

However, there was a similar lag in wages during the industrial revolution when machines were first used in production. It took decades for wage productivity to catch up with capital productivity, but it did, eventually. The issue now is that we keep having wave after wave of technological innovation and labor productivity is having a hard time keeping up.
This is the core of the debate right here. Like I said, I'm an EE who's doing damn well currently, including investment property, 401K/Roth as well as other smaller investments in local companies that I'm interested in (i.e. Faraday). I definitely do think owners of capital should be able to benefit from it.

On the other than hand, all these definitions, including "capital", "labor", "wage", "technology" are based on an economic system which developed over time. These concepts don't have the same meaning as 100 years ago in a society that's moving towards overpopulation combined with robotic labor (skilled and unskilled) which is reducing the value of labor.

There was a time when a person with capital was dependent on both the labor and technology to grow. The overabundance of both labor and technology has greatly changed that. I'm not sure if that will naturally balance out, i.e. value of man-hour increasing, population decreasing, resources being much cheaper due to technology, etc. but I can't say I believe the current trajectory is sustainable.

Your example of the industrial revolution addresses machinery which is a means of production. The AI/robotics of today are set to completely replace labor itself. Those two are not the same thing.
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post 1440813151 05-07-2016, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
uwot?

I assume by the ignorant "hoarding money" statement you mean someone saves money. By saving (and, crucially, investing) money a person creates wealth and wealth generating assets, those assets are what make us all better off. That "hoarding money" which you claim perpetuates poverty is the source of your PC, your house, all your consumer goods, the source of every asset you use to do your job.

Source: economist, trying to explain a complicated concept on a bodybuilding forum. I honestly can't believe the ignorance of some people.

What perpetuates poverty isn't clear because poverty is a nebulous undefinable entity. Do you mean relative poverty, as exists in the US where timmy can't buy his schoolbooks but can buy 2000 calories (ish) a day of (pretty ****ty) food. Or are you referring to absolute poverty where timmy weighs in at 24 kgs at 10 years old with a distended stomach from malnutrition.
i would prefer people to buy a cadillac and eat at fancy Restaurants every night than someone to put the money in an ira or long term savings.

every dollar spent is a dollar in someone else's pocket that they can spend to put in someone else's pocket to spend.

The owners who don't continue to grow and instead hoard their cash are, the drain on the economy. if you believe in capitalism and consumerism.. you gotta go hard or go home..

we aren't working hard to become wealthy, we are working hard to buy more stuff.. and the more stuff we buy, the more people we give money to to buy their own stuff..

if you just think for a minute you can climb out of your box
post 1440813451 05-07-2016, 07:35 PM
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******* op will be the first to complain when a big mac costs $18.00
post 1440813931 05-07-2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted By ezjax⏩
i would prefer people to buy a cadillac and eat at fancy Restaurants every night than someone to put the money in an ira or long term savings.

every dollar spent is a dollar in someone else's pocket that they can spend to put in someone else's pocket to spend.

The owners who don't continue to grow and instead hoard their cash are, the drain on the economy. if you believe in capitalism and consumerism.. you gotta go hard or go home..

we aren't working hard to become wealthy, we are working hard to buy more stuff.. and the more stuff we buy, the more people we give money to to buy their own stuff..

if you just think for a minute you can climb out of your box
That's a huge part of the problem. Used to be the USA was about putting your money where your mouth is. The founding fathers who get brought up endlessly in every debate on both sides put their LIVES on the line. Not just in war, but their entire net worth was invested in funding what they believed in. Sure they also saw returns on that investment, but I'm 100% okay with that. In 2016 it's completely acceptable to say fk everyone and everything if you can make a return on your dollar. Pathetic.
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post 1440814471 05-07-2016, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted By SlootFlute⏩
Who says what u "deserve"

You know how many jobs that require degrees that a monkey could do?? Seriously I've come into contact with so many people doing BS while getting paid decent money..
The American Dream has failed you. Work hard. Play by the rules. You aren’t guaranteed success. Your children will not have a better life than you did…. We’ve been crippled by Social Security. By Medicare. Medicaid. Welfare. And entitlements. And that is the root of the problem. Entitlements. Let me be clear: You are entitled to nothing. You. Are entitled. To nothing.
Originally Posted By Alphacapwn⏩
I have a masters degree in geophysics and I completely disagree with you. Anyone who works should be paid enough money to support their family, $15 an hour is not unreasonable.
Minimum wage should be enough to support self. Not self, wife/husband and two kids.
post 1440814591 05-07-2016, 07:44 PM
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OPs right...teachers only deserve $2-4/hr more then fast food workers.

So you want the middle class to die so theres an even bigger gap between low class and upper class. Because thats what it will do. $15/hr for the lower class brings them closer to middle class. While the middle class wont see ANY increase in pay. Meaning youv essentially just pulled the middle class down. Can you not see that?
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post 1440815111 05-07-2016, 07:47 PM
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Raising the minimum wage to $15 hurts the poor, it hurts the middle class, it hurts business, it hurts the unemployed and it hurts the people who are currently working minimum wage who are about to be laid off in droves.

Full stop. End of discussion.
post 1440815201 05-07-2016, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By ezjax⏩
i would prefer people to buy a cadillac and eat at fancy Restaurants every night than someone to put the money in an ira or long term savings.

every dollar spent is a dollar in someone else's pocket that they can spend to put in someone else's pocket to spend.

The owners who don't continue to grow and instead hoard their cash are, the drain on the economy. if you believe in capitalism and consumerism.. you gotta go hard or go home..

we aren't working hard to become wealthy, we are working hard to buy more stuff.. and the more stuff we buy, the more people we give money to to buy their own stuff..

if you just think for a minute you can climb out of your box
How does the Cadillac factory make the Cadillacs? The owner "hoards money" or goes to other people who "hoard money" and asks them to "hoard money" by buying a share of the future profits (or by a loan, or a myriad of other financial vehicles).

The demand side is not the only side of an economy if it were we'd still probably be buying the same goat off each other in perpetuity.

And if we're going to make the "every dollar spent..." argument then we're going to have to account for how it actually works, which is: every dollar spent is actually some multiple >1 in the pocket of the country (GDP) because of howinvestment(read: "hoarding money") works.

I know, the temptation is always there to look enviously on at the bankers on wall street, or the owners of productive firms and say "well, if you didn't hoard money i'd be rich!". Truth is, you wouldn't be, and you wouldn't have a PC, iphone or any consumer good.

if you just think for a minute you can climb out of your box buddy boyo
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post 1440815421 05-07-2016, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Alphacapwn⏩
I have a masters degree in geophysics and I completely disagree with you. Anyone who works should be paid enough money to support their family, $15 an hour is not unreasonable.
What does your masters degree in geophysics have to do with anything? What do you do for income, how much do you make, and how does it affect your perspective on this issue?

(For the record, I'm un-American)
post 1440815711 05-07-2016, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted By WhAtNoWbChSs⏩
completely false. Ive had a lot of mcdonalds over the years and quality from store to store and from different times of the day swings wildly.

It can range from delicious to revolting depending on who's working.

Its a very hard job too especially at the locations where it's busy as fuk nonstop all day.
WTF are you talking about? McDonalds employees do not make the food. They heat it up and serve it to you. There is literally nothing they can do to alter the taste. EVERYTHING at McDonalds comes pre-cooked. There is no logic at all behind you saying a quarter pounder tastes different depending on location or store hours. It's the exact same phucking thing.
post 1440815801 05-07-2016, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
Honestly the minimum wage should be $0.00. Nobody is forced to take a job if they think the pay is too low.
yes and the fat old men at the top should be allowed to bring in as many foreign workers as they want and pay them pennys per hour right?

you're a joke.
You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told you're a god or a total bastard. The iron always kicks you the real deal. It's the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. I have found it to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But 200 pounds is always 200 pounds.
post 1440816071 05-07-2016, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
How does the Cadillac factory make the Cadillacs? The owner "hoards money" or goes to other people who "hoard money" and asks them to "hoard money" by buying a share of the future profits (or by a loan, or a myriad of other financial vehicles).
WTF are you on about m8? He's talking about money that's parked in "investment vehicles", i.e. speculation in stock performance, not actual investment in stocks themselves which translate to production, commodities, etc. Address the question so we can have a productive discussion ffs. This is why we cant give real conservatism a shot in America. Every discussion gets dragged to the extreme end one way or another. Smh it's a damn shame.
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post 1440816531 05-07-2016, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted By ThePoz⏩
Minimum wage should be enough to support self. Not self, wife/husband and two kids.
False. Minimum wage should be a) whatever a business decides to pay or b) enough to earn a little extra cash on the side while you go to school full time. The only people who work minimum wage jobs are students, people just entering the workforce who have no job skills, and retirees looking to make a little extra money.

Lowering (or eliminating) the minimum wage would probably do a lot more good for everybody involved than raising it.
post 1440816601 05-07-2016, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
This is the core of the debate right here. Like I said, I'm an EE who's doing damn well currently, including investment property, 401K/Roth as well as other smaller investments in local companies that I'm interested in (i.e. Faraday). I definitely do think owners of capital should be able to benefit from it.

On the other than hand, all these definitions, including "capital", "labor", "wage", "technology" are based on an economic system which developed over time. These concepts don't have the same meaning as 100 years ago in a society that's moving towards overpopulation combined with robotic labor (skilled and unskilled) which is reducing the value of labor.

There was a time when a person with capital was dependent on both the labor and technology to grow. The overabundance of both labor and technology has greatly changed that. I'm not sure if that will naturally balance out, i.e. value of man-hour increasing, population decreasing, resources being much cheaper due to technology, etc. but I can't say I believe the current trajectory is sustainable.

Your example of the industrial revolution addresses machinery which is a means of production. The AI/robotics of today are set to completely replace labor itself. Those two are not the same thing.
Agree. On the current path, a relatively small number of people will own all the capital, which is going to be robots that produce pretty much everything. By current economics, those people would get most of the revenue. This is totally uncharted territory. I guess we might eventually be like Star Trek where there's no money but everyone still somehow works and machines do everything for us.
post 1440816791 05-07-2016, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted By WhAtNoWbChSs⏩
yes and the fat old men at the top should be allowed to bring in as many foreign workers as they want and pay them pennys per hour right?

you're a joke.
Two COMPLETELY different issues. And the only joke is that lefties want BOTH. They want the minimum wage to get jacked up to $15 AND they want the country flooded with millions and millions of illegal immigrants working under-the-table for pennies an hour.

I swear, most people on the left are legitimately mentally handicapped.
post 1440817331 05-07-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
How does the Cadillac factory make the Cadillacs? The owner "hoards money" or goes to other people who "hoard money" and asks them to "hoard money" by buying a share of the future profits (or by a loan, or a myriad of other financial vehicles).

The demand side is not the only side of an economy if it were we'd still probably be buying the same goat off each other in perpetuity.

And if we're going to make the "every dollar spent..." argument then we're going to have to account for how it actually works, which is: every dollar spent is actually some multiple >1 in the pocket of the country (GDP) because of howinvestment(read: "hoarding money") works.

I know, the temptation is always there to look enviously on at the bankers on wall street, or the owners of productive firms and say "well, if you didn't hoard money i'd be rich!". Truth is, you wouldn't be, and you wouldn't have a PC, iphone or any consumer good.

if you just think for a minute you can climb out of your box buddy boyo
I'm in the banking industry, so I'm good.. not looking enviously at anyone..

saving to spend is different than saving to be wealthy. Went right over your head.
post 1440818061 05-07-2016, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted By ThePumpmaster⏩
WTF are you talking about? McDonalds employees do not make the food. They heat it up and serve it to you. There is literally nothing they can do to alter the taste. EVERYTHING at McDonalds comes pre-cooked. There is no logic at all behind you saying a quarter pounder tastes different depending on location or store hours. It's the exact same phucking thing.
Thats not even true. The meat is cooked on a grill dumb ass. and they alter the taste plenty by either not cooking it long enough, no draining the grease off the meat, leaving it in the warming trays for hours and hours so it tastes old and nasty, rushing the fries, pulling them early, serving you soggy disgusting fries. etc etc etc

do you live under a rock? have you ever actually even been to mcdonalds?
You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told you're a god or a total bastard. The iron always kicks you the real deal. It's the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. I have found it to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But 200 pounds is always 200 pounds.
post 1440818111 05-07-2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By ezjax⏩
I'm in the banking industry, so I'm good.. not looking enviously at anyone..

saving to spend is different than saving to be wealthy. Went right over your head.
So spend every penny you have and do what in retirement exactly? Eat dirt and bugs? Leave nothing to your family?

Everyone should accumulate as much wealth as possible. Maybe the US wouldn't be 20 TRILLION dollars in debt if everyone didn't have to rely on the government for raising their retirement, health care, their children's education, etc. The only reason you have all these entitlement programs is because nobody saves any of their own money.
post 1440818571 05-07-2016, 08:09 PM
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How would they get to keep there benefits when they make that much.
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You do know those workers can be replaced by robots which would cost A LOT less right? Some joints have already begun the change.
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Originally Posted By WhAtNoWbChSs⏩
Thats not even true. The meat is cooked on a grill dumb ass. and they alter the taste plenty by either not cooking it long enough, no draining the grease off the meat, leaving it in the warming trays for hours and hours so it tastes old and nasty, rushing the fries, pulling them early, serving you soggy disgusting fries. etc etc etc

do you live under a rock? have you ever actually even been to mcdonalds?
Been to McDonalds plenty and worked at a McDonalds (overnight shift) for a summer my 1st year in college.

They heat your food. Period. They don't cook anything. They warm it up. It all comes pre-cooked, except for the fries (and there is a timer that beeps when they are done). There is literally nothing these employees can do to alter the taste of anything. It's not like they are in the back mixing up ground beef and adding seasonings and chit. They pull it out of a freezer and heat it up. And if they aren't doing that properly, it falls on the MANAGER, who is making more than $15 per hour already.

If you are claiming your food comes uncooked, I call bullchit. And even if that is true, it goes to show how useless some of those employees are... and yet you want those same people who can't even pull fries out when they hear a beep to get $15 per hour? Where is the logic in that?

And if you go to McDonalds so much, have fun with your 20% across-the-board price increases to make up for the increased costs of labor. Hope you enjoy giving more of your money to students who are already supported by their families and the government.
post 1440818991 05-07-2016, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Trillical⏩
You do know those workers can be replaced by robots which would cost A LOT less right? Some joints have already begun the change.
$5 or $15, companies will decide to use it if they can take humans out of the equation. Food will still taste like chit. It's processed food. It's already made. Pretty much take it out of a box and into a sunlamp more or less.
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post 1440819201 05-07-2016, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted By ThePumpmaster⏩
Been to McDonalds plenty and worked at a McDonalds (overnight shift) for a summer my 1st year in college.

They heat your food. Period. They don't cook anything. They warm it up. It all comes pre-cooked, except for the fries (and there is a timer that beeps when they are done).There is literally nothing these employees can do to alter the taste of anything.If you are claiming your food comes uncooked, I call bullchit. And even if that is true, it goes to show how useless some of those employees are... and yet you want those same people who can't even pull fries out when they hear a beep to get $15 per hour. Where is the logic in that?

And if you go to McDonalds so much, have fun with your 20% across-the-board price increases to make up for the increased costs of labor.
The bold is so unbelievably wrong.
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