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» Current math dismantled in one paragraph
  1. Results 1 to 16 of 16
post 10000274712 Yesterday, 10:40 AM
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  1. Gesten1
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Current math dismantled in one paragraph

by definition system that separates its starting assumptions from reality and then applies itself to reality is dogmatic



I’ll give a cash reward for anyone who can give a logical proof of justification for math seperating its starting assumptions from reality in pure math. It’s impossible (without using consistency and utility as defense, without using that’s how the system works as a defense and without using dogma as defense)
post 10000274731 Yesterday, 10:52 AM
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  1. Gesten1
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if math claims to be a system of freedom and advancement then this single paragraph just exposed the whole thing

I can provide logical proof of justification for not separating. Not one single mathematician or logician can provide logical proof of justification for the separation

This is a massive blind spot no one can defend
post 10000274752 Yesterday, 11:05 AM
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Your proposition promulgates an epistemological incongruity of gargantuan proportions! Any computational construct predicated upon axiomatic abstractions subsequently superimposed upon empirical actuality, absent reciprocal verification, degenerates into a dogmatical manifestation of intellectual circumlocution. In other words, my cerebrally constipated compatriot... if your premises have evacuated the premises of reality, then your conclusions are merely participating in an ontological masquerade!
St. Louis Blues Crew
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It might be short but it sure is skinny crew
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post 10000275253 Yesterday, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By azzspankr
Your proposition promulgates an epistemological incongruity of gargantuan proportions! Any computational construct predicated upon axiomatic abstractions subsequently superimposed upon empirical actuality, absent reciprocal verification, degenerates into a dogmatical manifestation of intellectual circumlocution. In other words, my cerebrally constipated compatriot... if your premises have evacuated the premises of reality, then your conclusions are merely participating in an ontological masquerade!
Correct
post 10000275270 Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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#5
  1. tripod29
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Whoa. Repped.
post 10000275819 Yesterday, 12:42 AM
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Bump
post 10000275821 Yesterday, 12:50 AM
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  1. dropped40lbs
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Originally Posted By Gesten1
I’ll give a cash reward for anyone who can give a logical proof of justification for math seperating its starting assumptions from reality in pure math.
A strong philosophical justification for separating the starting assumptions (axioms) of pure mathematics from claims about reality is that mathematics is a study of logical consequence, not of the physical world. Here's a logical proof-style argument.

Proposition
Pure mathematics is justified in separating its starting assumptions (axioms) from empirical reality.
Definitions


Axiom: A statement assumed without proof within a formal system.


Pure mathematics: The study of what logically follows from axioms.


Reality: The physical universe, known through observation and experiment.



Proof
Premise 1
Every deductive system requires starting assumptions.
Reason:
A proof cannot justify every statement. If every statement required proof from another statement, either:


there would be an infinite regress of proofs, or


the reasoning would become circular.


Therefore, every deductive system must begin with unproved assumptions.

Premise 2
The validity of deductive reasoning depends only on logical consistency, not on whether the assumptions describe reality.
Example:
If


All dragons breathe fire.


Smaug is a dragon.


Then it necessarily follows that

Smaug breathes fire.

The conclusion is logically valid even if dragons do not exist.

Premise 3
The objective of pure mathematics is to determine what follows necessarily from its axioms.
It asks

"If these assumptions are true, what must also be true?"

rather than

"Are these assumptions physically true?"


Premise 4
Whether a mathematical system describes reality is an independent empirical question.
For example,


Euclidean geometry assumes parallel lines never meet.


Hyperbolic geometry assumes infinitely many parallels.


Elliptic geometry assumes no parallels.


Each system is internally consistent.
Physics determines which geometry best models spacetime under particular conditions.

Premise 5
Separating deduction from observation allows multiple internally consistent mathematical systems to be explored.
Many mathematical structures developed without physical motivation later became indispensable:


Non-Euclidean geometry → General relativity


Complex numbers → Electrical engineering and quantum mechanics


Group theory → Particle physics


Riemannian geometry → Gravitation


Had mathematics required immediate empirical justification, these theories might never have been developed.

Conclusion
Therefore,


axioms serve as the necessary foundations for deductive reasoning;


logical validity depends on consistency rather than physical truth;


empirical reality determines only which mathematical structures model nature.


Hence, pure mathematics is logically justified in separating its starting assumptions from reality.


A deeper philosophical perspective
This separation reflects a distinction between two different kinds of inquiry:


Mathematics: "What necessarily follows from these assumptions?"


Science: "Which assumptions best describe the world?"


Mathematics investigates the landscape of all logically possible structures. Science selects, through observation and experiment, the structures that best correspond to reality.
This division of labor explains why mathematics can be both abstract and unexpectedly effective: by exploring logical possibilities independently of current observations, it creates a vast toolkit from which science can later draw when nature turns out to instantiate one of those structures. This idea is often connected to the discussion of the "unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics" in the natural sciences.
post 10000275822 Yesterday, 12:50 AM
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  1. dropped40lbs
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Originally Posted By Gesten1
I’ll give a cash reward for anyone who can give a logical proof of justification for math seperating its starting assumptions from reality in pure math.
where's my cash reward buddy?
post 10000275823 Yesterday, 12:53 AM
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  1. ChadLifter
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Hope you have a doc buddy. Everyone goes through shit.
Dodge SRT Fan
post 10000275825 Yesterday, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted By azzspankr
Your proposition promulgates an epistemological incongruity of gargantuan proportions! Any computational construct predicated upon axiomatic abstractions subsequently superimposed upon empirical actuality, absent reciprocal verification, degenerates into a dogmatical manifestation of intellectual circumlocution. In other words, my cerebrally constipated compatriot... if your premises have evacuated the premises of reality, then your conclusions are merely participating in an ontological masquerade!
This is art.
“The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.“

PS: Don't eat poop, just don't let the idea of it stop you from living life to its fullest.
post 10000275828 Yesterday, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet
This is art.
That's AI generated broski lol.
Dodge SRT Fan
post 10000275831 Yesterday, 01:24 AM
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#12
  1. Gesten1
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Originally Posted By dropped40lbs
A strong philosophical justification for separating the starting assumptions (axioms) of pure mathematics from claims about reality is that mathematics is a study of logical consequence, not of the physical world. Here's a logical proof-style argument.

Proposition
Pure mathematics is justified in separating its starting assumptions (axioms) from empirical reality.
Definitions


Axiom: A statement assumed without proof within a formal system.


Pure mathematics: The study of what logically follows from axioms.


Reality: The physical universe, known through observation and experiment.



Proof
Premise 1
Every deductive system requires starting assumptions.
Reason:
A proof cannot justify every statement. If every statement required proof from another statement, either:


there would be an infinite regress of proofs, or


the reasoning would become circular.


Therefore, every deductive system must begin with unproved assumptions.

Premise 2
The validity of deductive reasoning depends only on logical consistency, not on whether the assumptions describe reality.
Example:
If


All dragons breathe fire.


Smaug is a dragon.


Then it necessarily follows that

Smaug breathes fire.

The conclusion is logically valid even if dragons do not exist.

Premise 3
The objective of pure mathematics is to determine what follows necessarily from its axioms.
It asks

"If these assumptions are true, what must also be true?"

rather than

"Are these assumptions physically true?"


Premise 4
Whether a mathematical system describes reality is an independent empirical question.
For example,


Euclidean geometry assumes parallel lines never meet.


Hyperbolic geometry assumes infinitely many parallels.


Elliptic geometry assumes no parallels.


Each system is internally consistent.
Physics determines which geometry best models spacetime under particular conditions.

Premise 5
Separating deduction from observation allows multiple internally consistent mathematical systems to be explored.
Many mathematical structures developed without physical motivation later became indispensable:


Non-Euclidean geometry → General relativity


Complex numbers → Electrical engineering and quantum mechanics


Group theory → Particle physics


Riemannian geometry → Gravitation


Had mathematics required immediate empirical justification, these theories might never have been developed.

Conclusion
Therefore,


axioms serve as the necessary foundations for deductive reasoning;


logical validity depends on consistency rather than physical truth;


empirical reality determines only which mathematical structures model nature.


Hence, pure mathematics is logically justified in separating its starting assumptions from reality.


A deeper philosophical perspective
This separation reflects a distinction between two different kinds of inquiry:


Mathematics: "What necessarily follows from these assumptions?"


Science: "Which assumptions best describe the world?"


Mathematics investigates the landscape of all logically possible structures. Science selects, through observation and experiment, the structures that best correspond to reality.
This division of labor explains why mathematics can be both abstract and unexpectedly effective: by exploring logical possibilities independently of current observations, it creates a vast toolkit from which science can later draw when nature turns out to instantiate one of those structures. This idea is often connected to the discussion of the "unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics" in the natural sciences.
This is chat gpt word salad to hide and reframe the post

It’s a fact there is no logical justification within the guidelines

It uses not only consistency and utility as defense but also “that’s just how the system works as a defense”

Not valid defenses and not within guidelines
post 10000275882 Yesterday, 03:49 AM
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#13
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Originally Posted By azzspankr
Your proposition promulgates an epistemological incongruity of gargantuan proportions! Any computational construct predicated upon axiomatic abstractions subsequently superimposed upon empirical actuality, absent reciprocal verification, degenerates into a dogmatical manifestation of intellectual circumlocution. In other words, my cerebrally constipated compatriot... if your premises have evacuated the premises of reality, then your conclusions are merely participating in an ontological masquerade!
post 10000275889 Yesterday, 04:08 AM
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#14
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You nggas dont know shit about math.
Im the only motherfucker here studying math
1096 ng/dl
post 10000275892 Yesterday, 04:16 AM
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#15
  1. fate0311
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You fucking math majors are out of touch with reality. Go smoke more lead paint.
post 10000277314 6 hours ago, 11:40 PM
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#16
  1. Gesten1
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Originally Posted By fate0311
You fucking math majors are out of touch with reality. Go smoke more lead paint.
Anyone who shills for math is out of touch with reality
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