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Thread: Payroll tax holiday

post 1615528421 09-03-2020, 11:08 PM
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Payroll tax holiday

Your next check will most likely be bigger due to the payroll tax holiday, which is really a deferment of payroll tax. This will be through the end of the year.

This is just a deferment, and will have to be paid back by April 15. UNLESS Trump gets back in office AND forgives it. Just to be safe, be prepared to pay it back by next April when doing taxes.

This is for the first $104k earned, or those who earn up to $4000 bi-weekly.
post 1615543511 09-04-2020, 06:03 AM
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post 1615543971 09-04-2020, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
Your next check will most likely be bigger due to the payroll tax holiday, which is really a deferment of payroll tax. This will be through the end of the year.

This is just a deferment, and will have to be paid back by April 15. UNLESS Trump gets back in office AND forgives it. Just to be safe, be prepared to pay it back by next April when doing taxes.

This is for the first $104k earned, or those who earn up to $4000 bi-weekly.
I dont think Trump can forgive it, it has to be done through an act of congress.
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post 1615544371 09-04-2020, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted By Ten_Hearts⏩
I dont think Trump can forgive it, it has to be done through an act of congress.
That's true. All Trump could do is directed U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to explore ways, including through legislation (congress), to forgive the payroll taxes permanently.

I don't think this was a good idea since people probably won't be prepared for their paychecks to be so much less during the first four months of 2021. The employers will be deducting the payroll tax in the normal course beginning January 1, 2021, PLUS they will also withhold the payroll tax from September through December 2020 that was deferred through the payroll tax holiday.
post 1615544481 09-04-2020, 06:20 AM
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I thought the only people seeing their checks change this early are federal employees. A lot of other businesses are fighting this at the benefit of their employees and are saying they won’t do it.
post 1615544631 09-04-2020, 06:22 AM
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Tax/Rent deferments make no sense. No one that actually needs this will have the money to pay it back. All this is doing is setting up a giant cluster **** in the future.
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post 1615544691 09-04-2020, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
I thought the only people seeing their checks change this early are federal employees. A lot of other businesses are fighting this at the benefit of their employees and are saying they won’t do it.
I think it's for everyone, non federal employees too. However, it's not mandatory and employers I believe can choose not to do it, or at the very least the employee can request not to have it done.
post 1615545281 09-04-2020, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
I think it's for everyone, non federal employees too. However, it's not mandatory and employers I believe can choose not to do it, or at the very least the employee can request not to have it done.
Oh ok that makes more sense. It seems a lot of businesses aren’t opting in. Federal agencies don’t have a choice. People are going to be screwed regardless. Either they keep the money and it affects their SS later on or they’ll have to pay it back early next year. That’s a lot of heat on congress though. I’m interested to see what they’re going to say.
post 1615545431 09-04-2020, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
Oh ok that makes more sense. It seems a lot of businesses aren’t opting in. Federal agencies don’t have a choice. People are going to be screwed regardless. Either they keep the money and it affects their SS later on or they’ll have to pay it back early next year. That’s a lot of heat on congress though. I’m interested to see what they’re going to say.
Yeah, this is one of those things that sounds good in theory, but seems destined to backfire spectacularly.


Much like most things the government does...
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post 1615546961 09-04-2020, 07:05 AM
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More low IQ Trump/Republican shyt lol.

Enjoy that 7% increase if your employer decides to give it to you.
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post 1615547001 09-04-2020, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted By Ten_Hearts⏩
I dont think Trump can forgive it, it has to be done through an act of congress.
The way I understand it is, since the Fed was absorbed into the Treasury, essentially Trump becomes head of the Fed in a roundabout way. The whole dollar system along with the tax system is interconnected. The money printing in the spring could be taken less as endless QE, but a way to buy out all the debt based on the dollar so in effect, the debt/bomb/oil based dollar would be eliminated, or simply not used. In its place would be the new Treasury note, probably backed by a combination of other commodities or precious metals. The need for the IRS and the tax system would be zilch.
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post 1615547531 09-04-2020, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted By jamalfudge⏩
The way I understand it is, since the Fed was absorbed into the Treasury, essentially Trump becomes head of the Fed in a roundabout way. The whole dollar system along with the tax system is interconnected. The money printing in the spring could be taken less as endless QE, but a way to buy out all the debt based on the dollar so in effect, the debt/bomb/oil based dollar would be eliminated, or simply not used. In its place would be the new Treasury note, probably backed by a combination of other commodities or precious metals. The need for the IRS and the tax system would be zilch.
Interesting. Never saw Trump or Mnuchin at the FOMC meetings lol.
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post 1615549561 09-04-2020, 07:45 AM
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If you are an (currently successful) employer and not giving your employees holiday- you’re doing it wrong.





For starters this holiday wasn’t a good idea - but




1. OP’s wrong - the due date is April 30th (enough time for Congress to either forgive or extend deferment payment due date)

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-20-65.pdf

2. There’s a good chance this payment will either be forgiven- and most likely a chance the payment due will be extended until the end of 2022 (that will be the legislative push plan) - The way the forgiveness would work is we would slightly reduce the amount payroll tax owed for two years- Then extend the amount owed to equal that reduction until 2022- so no realized increase compared to today. The payroll tax reduction legislation will be worded much like Obama’s

3. It is going to be up to the employer to designate a system to recollect the owed taxes and make the payment.

So what gachase21 do?


Hmm


Well let’s see - it’s almost impossible to find employees right now- we are as short-staffed, and we are having to continually increase wages just to try to get people.


So can I now give a de facto raise- make the actual raise next year as a bonus amount for the taxes due spread through April 30th so the employees don’t realize an increase deduction - give the employees an actually raise at that point ?








So basically I can give my employee a de-facto raise now at the governments expense....

If the Government forgives it later I’m good


If the government doesn’t make the payment myself basically via payroll increase


And I get to defer my payments for two years so I can bank that now to make their payment - and
Just plug it into my operating cost over 2 years - which will basically be nothing because I’m going to have to give them a raise anyway to keep them.

Now the above deferment isn’t their portion it’s mine- but it is still current realize money I can use to fund this.
post 1615549591 09-04-2020, 07:46 AM
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having to pay the govt during tax time is probably one of the most annoying experiences
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post 1615550041 09-04-2020, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted By Trapstar4.4⏩
having to pay the govt during tax time is probably one of the most annoying experiences
Yes well in this legislation you don’t make the payment



What that does either either force a forgiveness , an extension , or employers to give raises if they want to keep their employees.
post 1615550401 09-04-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted By chaunce54⏩
Yeah, this is one of those things that sounds good in theory, but seems destined to backfire spectacularly.


Much like most things the government does...
Lol, when the "government" does something you don't like, it's a separate entity; if the "government" does something you do like, it's Trump 2020!

Just lmao.
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post 1615551051 09-04-2020, 08:04 AM
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The govt taxes u on ****ing everything

They would tax u on the air you breathe it they could
post 1615551241 09-04-2020, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
Yes well in this legislation you don’t make the payment



What that does either either force a forgiveness , an extension , or employers to give raises if they want to keep their employees.
Or they double their witholdings of SS for the first four months of 2021 to make up the difference. This is exactly what most businesses say they will do if they’re forced to do it. Lol at forced to give raises.

We are dealing with hypotheticals here. We don’t know what congress will do when they reconvene.
post 1615551411 09-04-2020, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
If you are an (currently successful) employer and not giving your employees holiday- you’re doing it wrong.





For starters this holiday wasn’t a good idea - but




1. OP’s wrong - the due date is April 30th (enough time for Congress to either forgive or extend deferment payment due date)

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-20-65.pdf

2. There’s a good chance this payment will either be forgiven- and most likely a chance the payment due will be extended until the end of 2022 (that will be the legislative push plan) - The way the forgiveness would work is we would slightly reduce the amount payroll tax owed for two years- Then extend the amount owed to equal that reduction until 2022- so no realized increase compared to today. The payroll tax reduction legislation will be worded much like Obama’s

3. It is going to be up to the employer to designate a system to recollect the owed taxes and make the payment.

So what gachase21 do?


Hmm


Well let’s see - it’s almost impossible to find employees right now- we are as short-staffed, and we are having to continually increase wages just to try to get people.


So can I now give a de facto raise- make the actual raise next year as a bonus amount for the taxes due spread through April 30th so the employees don’t realize an increase deduction - give the employees an actually raise at that point ?








So basically I can give my employee a de-facto raise now at the governments expense....

If the Government forgives it later I’m good


If the government doesn’t make the payment myself basically via payroll increase


And I get to defer my payments for two years so I can bank that now to make their payment - and
Just plug it into my operating cost over 2 years - which will basically be nothing because I’m going to have to give them a raise anyway to keep them.

Now the above deferment isn’t their portion it’s mine- but it is still current realize money I can use to fund this.
Ok so it works out for the employers and not the employees.

Inb4 just start your own business and this all works out for you.
post 1615551521 09-04-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
Or they double their witholdings of SS for the first four months of 2021 to make up the difference. This is exactly what most businesses say they will do if they’re forced to do it. Lol at forced to give raises.
Yea and no



Businesses are strapped for employees right now/ if you start double withholding then that employee quits to go somewhere else-


There’s no way in hell we can do anything but make the employees check at least be the same or bigger the following check in order to maintain them.



0 Businesses will be interested in decreasing their employees take-home pay.
post 1615551661 09-04-2020, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
Ok so it works out for the employers and not the employees.

Inb4 just start your own business and this all works out for you.
Reverse - works out for the employees and the liability is placed on the employer
post 1615551711 09-04-2020, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
Yea and no



Businesses are strapped for employees right now/ if you start double withholding then that employee quits to go somewhere else-


There’s no way in hell we can do anything but make the employees check at least be the same or bigger the following check in order to maintain them.



0 Businesses will be interested in decreasing their employees take-home pay.
What are the implications for employees That quit before the extra withholdings start to be taken out if businesses are forced to do so? I assume they’re still on the hook for tax time.

Honestly this is such a mess. I’ll give trump credit for forcing congress to do something besides bicker but I don’t like having to wait and see what they’re going to do when I’m forced into the tax holiday. Basically I need to withhold that money until congress does something.
post 1615552201 09-04-2020, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
What are the implications for employees That quit before the extra withholdings start to be taken out if businesses are forced to do so? I assume they’re still on the hook for tax time.

Honestly this is such a mess. I’ll give trump credit for forcing congress to do something besides bicker but I don’t like having to wait and see what they’re going to do when I’m forced into the tax holiday. Basically I need to withhold that money until congress does something.
First off this isn’t a “tax time” issue as we traditionally think- this has absolutely nothing to do with the April 15 taxes you pay, and won’t be doing any format like that.


You’re a pretty practical guy here’s one ask you to try to do



Visualize yourself as a business right now that struggling to either higher or maintain employees


Read the 3 page guidance

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-20-65.pdf


Then read the employer deferral guidance


https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/deferra...ber-31-2020#18



And let me know as a business how exactly you would approach this




If it involves a single penny of your employees paycheck being less than the previous , then you currently don’t know what it’s like to run a business right now- because that will fail.



This is a way to give your employees a raise in the for the cost of that relates to your business over two years.



If the government forgives it then that could either be more money for you or the employee however you choose.


The employee wins regardless.
post 1615552651 09-04-2020, 08:25 AM
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As far as the details on this is really muddy and murky how it will work out.


Annoying honestly.


So the employer is tasked with collecting and paying the employees liability between January and April 30

So if the government forgives the liability.....


The employer sends a check of the collection this far back to the employee???


What is the employer tanks in there time?



In my world this is an obvious one for the employee you take that money in the bank if it’s forgiven the employee wins with a big check.


If it isn’t forgiven they win with a raise (paid by me, with funds used deferred over 2 years) in the meantime.




It will suck for any employees of their employer doesn’t participate in this plan- because if there is forgiveness they may miss out.
post 1615552871 09-04-2020, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted By Trapstar4.4⏩
having to pay the govt during tax time is probably one of the most annoying experiences
I am part owner of my business and my wife owns her own business. We get to do it 4 times a year.
post 1615554341 09-04-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted By z4v4⏩
Lol, when the "government" does something you don't like, it's a separate entity; if the "government" does something you do like, it's Trump 2020!

Just lmao.
Isn't Trump doing this??


It's just too easy sometimes...
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post 1615554561 09-04-2020, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted By chaunce54⏩
Isn't Trump doing this??


It's just too easy sometimes...
So now you assert that Trump is the government and thus part of the deep state, eh, son?
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post 1615554791 09-04-2020, 08:53 AM
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Doesn'tfeellike a holiday.
post 1615554831 09-04-2020, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted By Seatard⏩
Doesn'tfeellike a holiday.
You're not getting Monday off?
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post 1615555341 09-04-2020, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
In my world this is an obvious one for the employee you take that money in the bank if it’s forgiven the employee wins with a big check.


If it isn’t forgiven they win with a raise (paid by me, with funds used deferred over 2 years) in the meantime.




It will suck for any employees of their employer doesn’t participate in this plan- because if there is forgiveness they may miss out.
It's the only choice really, take the money now if you can. Save or spend according to your own financial savvy.

You just know a fuk ton of companies are not going to participate up front becasue of "uncertainties" but will keep the deferment if/when it is forgiven.
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