Usually with this government “strong recommendations” are a step before mandates.

Just lol at the joke of a government. They have had 3 years to improve the healthcare system and done fuking nothing, now the seasonal flu has come around and is ‘overwhelming’ the healthcare system, and I have no doubt they’ll soon implement mandatory masks for indoors

But I thought socialized healthcare is so much better?

inb4 hospital bed shortage

fkn LMAO

No way people still wear masks in 2022 (almost 2023)

It is.

However,

1) Their healthcare up there is NOT what it used to be 20...30...40 years ago. And this is largely attributable to the effects of a) FTA/NAFTA which has increased Canada's economic immigration with the USA and made their systems more like ours; and b) continued immigration that isn't managed well

and

2) A system being used at or near its fullest will mean that facilities and workers are being used to their fullest capacities. If a system is NOT used at or near its fullest, that will mean that individual payers will pay more, and this is what happens in the USA, I think. Canada doesn't have that problem.

If one has to ask whether Socialized Healthcare is better based on only one solitary simple statement on an online forum, then one obviously doesn't know anything about that system, first-hand.ETA: As a dual citizen who lived up there for 5 years and who used the system a good bit both there and here, I can actually compare the two from personal experience.

Do Canadians still wear a mask on a daily basis? Strong everything if so.

I never see people in masks anymore. Maybe one or two per week in the grocery store. Usually oldcels.

I read about Canadians dying from being stuck in the er for 18-48 hours weekly lmao

2 more weeks bro

The main problem is due to that fact that the federal govt cut transfer payments for health back in the 90s due to the debt crisis, and that money has never been restored. Inflation adjusted, the Canadian health care system operates on about 60% of the funds it had in the pre debt crisis.

Yes probably 25% of them.

Its fukkn pathetic.

My province thankfully said they wont mandate maska again. I wont comply anymore. Fukk them.

Which province you in? Alberta won’t for sure.

Just LOL @ beavercels srs

It didn't help in our province when nurses who do travel nursing get paid twice as much as regular ones, or can make six figures if they move to the US. Plus, our lovely premier received billions in funds during COVID that he didn't put towards anything except his pockets. They want to make it two tier and privatize what they can, and they are doing a good job at swaying public opinion towards that because people are fed up with no family doctors and ERs that have been overflowing for a decade.

The idea of adding masks being a solution is like standing with your hand up and saying "stop" after a dam breaks.

Interesting.
So adequate funding isn't even up for discussion then? I don't have a problem with a dual system [public for everyone, private for those with $$$], but adequate funding for the public system should be foundational.


I spent some time on a site that covers why and how the healthcare system is collapsing. Took a bunch of screenshots.

One thing they pointed out is that a small number of people use the most healthcare while most people use very little. I wonder if a free/low cost system of first line care that is readily available with a second tier of experts/professionals could save lives and loads of cash if properly executed. The general model isn't that strange or difficult.



^^^
10% of patients use 70% of the money


We could have clinics in every community that are operated something like the post office [government administration and support] staffed by nurses and NPs available on a walk in basis or by appointment along the lines of the current "urgent care" or "minute clinic" model.

Most of the usual ailments people deal with can be evaluated and/or treated at that level for a low cost. Doesn't have to be free to the user even, maybe $50 or something and then those who are really poor could be enrolled in an income adjusted fee program.

You could visit this clinic to get labs done and vitals taken. With current technology a lot of specialists could visit with their patients via internet which would allow people in less populated areas to still receive treatment without having to travel all the time to other areas to seek help. Some appointments would always need to be in person, but in a chronic disease management situation it shouldn't be necessary.

Anyhow the community clinic tier could cover a lot of basic healthcare needs and then refer those who need it up to the next tier. There is a lot of needless BS at the first tier level right now with insurance, billing, scheduling, etc. which is needless overhead as far as I can tell. Why even involve insurance at that level of care? Make an appointment via an online scheduling system. Pay cash/credit at the point of service. No insurance, no deductible/co-pay system.

The longer term general practitioner/patient relationship may not be built in this type of system, but people who want that could join a private concierge practice for first tier care instead of using the public clinics.

Funding healthcare via an employer paid for profit health insurance system isn't working well for anyone. IMO a public system for everyone with an optional private system and optional private health insurance *which should be solely a bill payer that reimburses the patient/doesn't pay the doctor/hospital* could work. We can't afford to keep wasting so much money on paper pushers or to continue to eat up so much time from trained healthcare workers on red tape.

The Canadians that visit Florida are some of the most hated people down here. They are like cockroaches.

I completely agree and would support a model like this. Problem is that so many people think that if they privatize any part of the system it's going to give the crappy doctors and care to the poor people, and everyone is a bleeding heart. Like you said, if there are incentives for doctors and nurses to be part of the public system (ie proper funding and compensation) then it works. You could also easily mandate that doctors/nurses for the first three to five years after graduation have to be part of the public system first like a tour of duty, and some of them will choose to stay.

Our problem currently is total lack of family doctors and nurses. That pushes people without one into walk in clinics, which are understaffed as well, and if they can't get that, they head to the ER even for minor ailments. Having more awareness about online resources for minor issues could help with this as well but a lot of people don't even know it's an option. Right now our pediatric units are overwhelmed with kids having respiratory problems that probably aren't that serious, but parents freak out if their kid has a cough. And it didn't help that kids were in a bubble for two years not getting exposed to regular illness that they would have been if they were in school or daycare instead of at home during COVID.

Even foreign nurses are made to jump through hoops to get certified, often taking years instead of fast tracking them through a qualifying system over a short few months and then having them learn on the job under supervision. The whole thing is badly managed and poorly funded.

Addendum...lol

A government clinic system could be an easy way to enact a service for education type program where the government could fund someone's education in exchange for a commitment to work X years in the clinic system to pay off the student debt, e.g. 2 years of nursing school covered by .gov in exchange for 2 years working in the government clinic system.

These people could be assigned to geographic areas that are in need of medical providers, but for whatever reason don't have enough...likely rural areas.

If you knew anything, you'd know that health care is Provincial. Which is Conservative currently, not Liberal. But keep talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about and herp derp again.

The lack of first tier care causing people to self-select for emergency care is a big problem. I hate the automated phone tree systems and I would much rather read and respond vs. listen and respond, but I don't see a single reason that most of the doctor visit BS couldn't be better automated.

Every single visit the person who puts you in the room goes through a script of questions. Same questions every visit and it seems like a big waste of time. I understand the need to keep up adequate records. I don't understand why that process couldn't be made less cumbersome via an app of some kind. You could even let patients choose to read and respond or listen and respond + you could have it in different languages.

Patients who want to make an appointment vs. walk in could provide a lot of information via an app which could flag anything that seems unusual or urgent which could then be kicked up to a real person who could make a verbal assessment and direct the patient on next steps.
Can't say re:actual seriousness, but the constant fear pushed about covid which ended up being "if you have any symptom of illness whatsoever it could be covid and you could DIE" will take a long time to overcome.

Fun fact: an increased incidence of RSV was found by Pfizer in their own trials

I thought we were "following the science"


what "science" does Ontario have that the rest of the world doesnt? have they been conducting independent experiments? When are they going to release this science for the rest of us so that we can benefit?


cant just be holding on to all the good science up there.

I still see f@gg0ts here in Texas wearing them occasionally in public. (Ded fkn Srs)

My favorite part of the "let's just build more hospitals" counter-argument to wearing masks is not that it's the ridiculously more expensive option, it's that it directly parallels the idea that the way out of the polio epidemic was to build more iron lungs.

Nothing to really do with that. Some European public health care systems have more capacity than both the US and Canada. It's incompetence and lack of investment.

Only 40% of people did, but I was one of them. So again, herp derp as usual. Let the adults have a proper conversation.

Provincial government just announced an 8 billion dollar surplus. Is it going towards education or health care? Nope. It's going towards building a highway that nobody wants or needs. Because we have to keep the construction industry going so they can donate to the party in power. It's so blatantly transparent and almost a joke at this point.

Dougie also froze wages for nurses and they aren't allowed to strike. After years shyte working conditions and abuse from segments of the population, they are striking the only way they can - by leaving the profession.

Ontario has very special science only exclusive to them that they refuse to share with the world (not srs). You can go back a decade, and even 2 decades and see articles for pretty much every year that hospitals are "overwhelmed" during flu season.

But for whatever reason Ontario has clung to this idea that masks resemble anything close to a solution to any of this. I must have missed the many and several randomized control trials of masking on reducing hospitalization for respiratory illnesses like RSV, flu, or any virus for that matter. But yes, let's continue to do what's CLEARLY been working for the past 3 years.

Let's not be this disingenuous and completely dumb down the counter-argument. It's funny because Ontario thinks the way out of this "epidemic" is tripling down on more masking because the hospitals are overwhelmed. Hey, let's lockdown for a good part of two years, certainly nothing can go wrong here.

Damn, why did we never think about this years and even decades ago when hospitals were also overwhelmed? Have the health ministers, doctors just been clueless the whole time? Are those warnings/labels that masks do not stop viruses just flat out wrong?

Talking about expensive options, Trudeau just sent a couple 100 mill to Ukraine and is pledging 300+ mill to tighten bonds with ASEAN. Certainly Canada couldn't have used ANY of that money at all domestically because we can just print some more right?

Trudeau continues to bring in immigrants into Canada, further putting pressure on basic services and infrastructure. Even if we could build more hospitals, there simply isn't enough nurses and doctors to staff them and ironically the immigrants that Trudeau is bringing have to work as Uber drivers as opposed to being fast-tracked into the public health system without all the red tape.

Not to mention there being nurses looking to foreign countries and also not to mention shooting themselves in the foot with firing doctors/nurses who were unvaccinated when there is an apparent "hospital crisis".

just lol.

Here's one of several available reviews:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...22.874693/fullHealthcare is provincial as is education. DoFo seems uninterested in any sort of investment in either.

And I strongly recommend they go choke on a dick. Not going to go back to this again.

All the sick people are just jabbies with immune systems destroyed by their spike protein mRNA injection.

Nice way to begin your response. srs

So, that leads me to ask why there was the debt crisis in the 90s and why has the money never been restored? Was this at all an effect that the FTA/NAFTA had on the Canadian economy?