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» Supreme Court revisiting Chevron
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post 1693541573 11-17-2023, 07:47 PM
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Supreme Court revisiting Chevron

This is good news. As pointed out several times now, the supreme court has been on a freedom streak with rolling back decisions that they now realize were wrong decisions.

The Chevron decision enabled the federal government to massively regulate natural resources, which most of us understand should have been unconstitutional in the first place. It has allowed the climate agenda to spiral out of control. If they overturn this decision, it will be over for the climate fascists and we will see lots of competition and freedom in our market again. This means the price of energy coming down, which means the price of everything will come down, making things much more affordable, including the cost of living.

Chevron decision was actually part of a socialist revolution that the courts allowed.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...hange-00094670
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post 1693542813 11-17-2023, 08:34 PM
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This would heavily benefit most Americans, so clearly the democrats need to oppose it.
post 1693543303 11-17-2023, 08:51 PM
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I think Chevron just gave administrative agencies more discretion to make laws (er, regulations)

Since admin agencies fall under the executive branch, it would take some of the power away from the president

So a good thing.
mo e
post 1693543713 11-17-2023, 08:59 PM
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HOLY FUK nice!!!

I can honestly say, FUK the epa!
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post 1693546133 11-17-2023, 10:16 PM
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reversing Chevron deference would be a game changing shift in terms of federal agency administrative power.
post 1693549863 11-18-2023, 01:44 AM
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Climatecels on suicide watch
post 1693553603 11-18-2023, 06:03 AM
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Fwiw the chevron decision goes way behind climate change - and epa - i impacts the way every federal agency can self interpret their rules.
post 1693559413 11-18-2023, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21
reversing Chevron deference would be a game changing shift in terms of federal agency administrative power.
It would shift authority away from agency bureaucrats... back to congress.

Be careful what you ask for because the options could be to codify even broader authority to the agencies, or to micro manage the country with a myriad of new laws.

After a bunch of pointless bickering I'd guess we'd end up in the exact same spot as now.
post 1693560043 11-18-2023, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21
Fwiw the chevron decision goes way behind climate change - and epa - i impacts the way every federal agency can self interpret their rules.
Yes but what is interesting is they all seem to make the same "mistake" of changing definitions after the fact to enforce new policies. For instance, EPA recently determined that you are not allowed to take the exhaust off an off road vehicle if it was ever made for street use. That can't possible be constitutional. They subsequently started prosecuting aftermarket tuners to the point that online message boards are afraid to talk about ecm tunes or emissions deletes. They've nearly killed an entire industry. Furthermore, they're single handedly killing light duty diesel production as they require the system to detect if there is ANY type of exhaust change. It's insanity and its clearly targeted at eliminating diesel as a fuel competitor against electric.

And we all know the bullchit with ATF. I just figure the EPA is flying under the radar....
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post 1693562813 11-18-2023, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted By Seatard
It would shift authority away from agency bureaucrats... back to congress.

Be careful what you ask for because the options could be to codify even broader authority to the agencies, or to micro manage the country with a myriad of new laws.

After a bunch of pointless bickering I'd guess we'd end up in the exact same spot as now.
Back to Congress- or the court again...

For example, the national archives indiscriminately, interpreting its own authority over obtaining prior presidential records that President had self ordered (with constitutional broad executive authority over current congressional acts ) a specific future retention plan different from the national archives self interpreted rule.

then they get an unconstitutional warrant to sees these materials they actually didn't have jurisdiction over- using their self interpretation- and get another agency to perform an unconstitutional right to do such.

These agencies might not be able to indiscriminately interpret anymore.


And a few cases might get thrown out of court....
post 1693563023 11-18-2023, 10:53 AM
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post 1693589703 11-18-2023, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted By Seatard
It would shift authority away from agency bureaucrats... back to congress.

Be careful what you ask for because the options could be to codify even broader authority to the agencies, or to micro manage the country with a myriad of new laws.

After a bunch of pointless bickering I'd guess we'd end up in the exact same spot as now.
It would make it easier for companies to bribe politicians, which is always nice.
My personal pronouns are: Don't talk to me/Fck off
post 1693591323 11-18-2023, 11:32 PM
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Rule making corrupted the agencies and turned them in to monarchs, or dictatorships. Getting to decide how they enforce the law, definitions, and not being accountable to anyone. The state is inherently leftist, as leftism and statism is one in the same. Making and increasing rules creates job security and demand for bigger government, which means funding, pay, jobs...

Taking away that power might cause another issue, but we know it doesn't work. All of the agencies and bureaucrats have become extremely corrupt, and we know these policies helped cause it. In fact, our government was not intended to have a bureaucratic state in the first place.
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post 1696515923 01-17-2024, 08:12 AM
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Hearing today

https://jonathanturley.org/2024/01/17/214310/
post 1696517823 01-17-2024, 08:48 AM
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Cheap energy also increases domestic manufacturing
post 1696525533 01-17-2024, 11:22 AM
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Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson spells out the legal chaos that will arise when the right-wing Roberts Court overturns the 1984 Chevron doctrine, which for 40 years has allowed federal agencies to make reasonable interpretations of undefined terms in federal statutes.





government tryingto retain the power they shouldnt have to begin with
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post 1696527083 01-17-2024, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted By Procta
Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson spells out the legal chaos that will arise when the right-wing Roberts Court overturns the 1984 Chevron doctrine, which for 40 years has allowed federal agencies to make reasonable interpretations of undefined terms in federal statutes.





government tryingto retain the power they shouldnt have to begin with
I’m sure it’s a compelling argument the working man would support
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post 1696530613 01-17-2024, 01:09 PM
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The high court announced Monday that it is taking up a case squarely aimed at killing off the nearly-four-decade-old precedent that has come to be known as Chevron deference: the principle that courts should defer toreasonable agency interpretationsof ambiguous provisions in congressional statutes and judges should refrain from crafting their own reading of the law
The more you read it, the crazier it sounds.

Yeah, because the three letter agencies have such a storied history of beingreasonablewhatsoever, and judges should simplynotfulfill their role balancing the other branches. That way, unelected, bureaucratic oligarchs overextending the central government's control without recourse or threat of ever being democratically ousted.

It's a complete mockery.
I will stand firm, I refuse to kneel - The fury in me is divine
My dark grave awaits, my fate is revealed - But I'm not afraid to die

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post 1696585373 01-18-2024, 03:19 PM
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post 1696593243 01-18-2024, 06:10 PM
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In a just world the Supreme Court would just be Clarence Thomas and no one else
post 1696595623 01-18-2024, 06:57 PM
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if the supreme court has the authority to determine whether or not they have the authority, then the agencies never had the authority in the first place.

FACTS.
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post 1696601573 01-18-2024, 10:16 PM
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Supreme Court likely to discard Chevron
Amy Howe
ARGUMENT ANALYSIS


It has been nearly 40 years since the Supreme Court indicated in Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council that courts should defer to an agency’s reasonable interpretation of an ambiguous statute. After more than three-and-a-half hours of oral argument on Wednesday, it seemed unlikely that the rule outlined in that case, known as the Chevron doctrine, will survive in its current form. A majority of the justices seemed ready to jettison the doctrine or at the very least significantly limit it.

The court’s ruling could have ripple effects across the federal government, where agencies frequently use highly trained experts to interpret and implement federal laws. Although the doctrine was relatively noncontroversial when it was first introduced in 1984, in recent years conservatives – including some members of the Supreme Court – have called for it to be overruled.

The plea to overturn the Chevron doctrine came to the court in two cases challenging a rule, issued by the National Marine Fisheries Service, that requires the herring industry to bear the costs of observers on fishing boats. Applying Chevron, both the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit upheld the rule, finding it to be a reasonable interpretation of federal law.

The fishing companies came to the Supreme Court, asking the justices to weigh in on the rule itself but also to overrule Chevron. Roman Martinez, representing one group of fishing vessels, told the justices that the Chevron doctrine undermines the duty of courts to say what the law is and violates the federal law governing administrative agencies, which similarly requires courts to undertake a fresh review of legal questions. Under the Chevron doctrine, he observed, even if all nine Supreme Court justices agree that the fishing vessels’ interpretation of federal fishing law is better than the NMFS’s interpretation, they would still be required to defer to the agency’s interpretation as long as it was reasonable. Such a result, Martinez concluded, is “not consistent with the rule of law.”

Arguing on behalf of the second group of fishing companies, Paul Clement echoed Martinez’s points. Emphasizing that his clients’ case “well illustrates the real world costs of the Chevron” doctrine for small businesses, he decried the doctrine as “hopeless ambiguous” and “reliance destroying.” The question in this challenge to the rule, he said should focus on what the best reading of the statute is.

Representing the Biden administration, U.S. Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar urged the justices to leave the Chevron doctrine in place, telling them that it has “deep roots in this Court’s jurisprudence.” Under the doctrine of stare decisis – the idea that courts should generally adhere to their prior cases – the court would need a “truly extraordinary justification” to overrule it, which the challengers do not have, she asserted.

The court’s three liberal justices expressed support for keeping the doctrine in place. Justice Elena Kagan repeatedly suggested that federal agencies, with their scientific and technical expertise, are better suited than courts to resolve ambiguities in a federal statute.

Kagan cited as one example a hypothetical bill to regulate artificial intelligence. Congress, she said, “knows there are going to be gaps because Congress can hardly see a week in the future.” So it would want people “who actually know about AI and are accountable to the political process to make decisions” about artificial intelligence. Courts, she emphasized, “don’t even know what the questions are about AI,” much less the answers.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor agreed with Kagan. She doubted whether there can be a “best” interpretation of a law when the justices “routinely disagree” about a law’s meaning. The real question, she said, is who makes the choice about what an ambiguous law means. And if the court needs a “tie-breaker,” she continued, why shouldn’t it defer to the agency, with its expertise?

Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson posited that the Chevron doctrine serves an important purpose. Under Chevron, she suggested, Congress gives federal agencies the power to make policy choices – such as filling gaps or defining terms in the statute. But if Chevron is overturned and agencies no longer have that power, she predicted, then courts will have to make those kinds of policy decisions.

But Justice Brett Kavanaugh saw Chevron’s deference to agencies differently. Chevron, he complained, “ushers in shocks to the system every four or eight years when a new administration comes in” and implements “massive change” in areas like securities law, communications law, and environmental law.

Justice Neil Gorsuch told Prelogar that he was less concerned about businesses subject to changing regulations, observing that the companies “can take care of themselves” and seek relief through the political process. Instead, Gorsuch pointed to less powerful individuals who may be affected by the actions of federal agencies, such as immigrants, veterans seeking benefits, and Social Security claimants. In those cases, Gorsuch stressed, Chevron virtually always works for the agencies and against the “little guy.”

Justice Samuel Alito pressed Prelogar to explain when a statute would be ambiguous, triggering the application of the Chevron doctrine. He observed that “in cases that don’t involve an agency,” courts do not simply throw up their hands and declare that they cannot determine what the statute means. “So that would seem to suggest that you never get to step two” of the Chevron test, requiring courts to defer to the agency’s interpretation.

The justices and advocates also debated what the impact of a decision overruling Chevron would be. Chief Justice John Roberts suggested that the effect might be relatively minimal, noting that the Supreme Court had not relied on Chevron in several years.

Martinez countered that the issue still arises frequently in the lower courts, but he insisted that overruling Chevron would not call prior cases relying on Chevron into question.

But Prelogar pushed back, telling the justices that thousands of rulings “would be open to challenge.” “Litigants,” she said, “will come out of the woodwork.”

Prelogar suggested that the court could follow the path that it chose five years ago in Kisor v. Wilkie, in which the justices declined to overrule a long line of cases instructing courts to defer to an agency’s interpretation of its own regulation, a doctrine sometimes known as Auer deference. Instead, a splintered court put limits on when Auer deference should apply going forward.

In this case, Prelogar told the justices, the court could “clarify and articulate the limits of Chevron deference without taking the drastic step of upending decades of settled precedent.” For example, she explained, the justices could “reemphasize” that, in determining whether the statute is clear, courts should use all of the interpretative tools at their disposal and not “give up just because the statute is dense or hard to parse.” And if the statute is still determined to be ambiguous, she said, the question whether it is reasonable should be “obviously deferential” but “not just anything goes.”

Martinez rejected any suggestion that the Chevron doctrine should be limited but not overruled. The justices, he said, should “recognize that the fundamental problem is Chevron itself.” By the time the session drew to a close, it seemed – but was not completely clear – that a majority of the justices agreed with him.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/01/s...scard-chevron/
post 1696602193 01-18-2024, 10:54 PM
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Kagan is such an ideologue. Some of her remarks in the proceedings were nonsensical and illogical. Then she concluded with “I don’t know the answer, so we should defer to the experts in the agencies”. Totally side stepping and making an absolute that required no thinking. “How am I supposed to determine what is a drug vs what is a supplement?” It’s like they have no idea how to be a Supreme Court Judge.

She’s purposefully avoiding the points that he was making. You can hear the frustration in his voice and how he quickly moves on because it was basically a “gotcha” set up that he wanted to avoid.

There are no “moderate” leftists in the courts. They’re all fascists and commies now. The bureaucrats have very clearly become tyrants on the side of the state. They stated that they had “already reigned in” the agencies, but when they’re 1,000 miles off course and you reel them back in 10 feet…good job?
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post 1696602733 01-18-2024, 11:16 PM
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This case could possibly go deeper than Chevron and reach all the way back to the 1935 case that was pivotal in non-delegation doctrine.
post 1702345501 06-13-2024, 05:12 AM
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Rumor is this decision may be out today (or tomorrow where scotus added 1 more day is decisions release this week.)
post 1702346571 06-13-2024, 05:53 AM
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This is HUGE!! Way bigger than Roe v Wade.

Imagine a Congress that actually has to do their job.

You want an EV mandate? Pass the law and suffer the consequences.

Bump stock ban? Pass the law and suffer the consequences.


Of course, Congress is so dysfunctional, they can't even pass a budget.
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post 1702346711 06-13-2024, 06:01 AM
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less government in anything is always a great idea
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post 1702347091 06-13-2024, 06:16 AM
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Republicans love to rape our natural resources and fuk the climate.

Just in time for an oil glut by 2030...

Big Oil given stark warning as peak crude and a major supply surplus expected by 2030
The International Energy Agency said Wednesday that a U.S.-led surge in global oil production is expected to outstrip demand growth between now and the end of the decade, pushing spare capacity to unprecedented levels and potentially upending OPEC+ market management.

The forecast prompted a stern warning for Big Oil from IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol, who suggested the world’s largest energy majors may wish to align their business strategies with the changes taking place.

In its latest medium-term market report, titled Oil 2024, the global energy watchdog said oil demand growth was on track to slow down before ultimately reaching its peak of near 106 million barrels per day by 2030. That’s up from just over 102 million barrels per day in 2023.

At the same time, the IEA expects total oil production capacity to surge to nearly 114 million barrels per day by 2030 — a whopping 8 million barrels per day above projected global demand.

The IEA said this would result in levels of spare capacity not seen before — other than at the height of the Covid-19 lockdowns in 2020.

It warned that these dynamics could have “significant consequences” for oil markets, including for the U.S. shale industry and producer economies in OPEC and beyond.

“As the pandemic rebound loses steam, clean energy transitions advance, and the structure of China’s economy shifts, growth in global oil demand is slowing down and set to reach its peak by 2030,” the IEA’s Birol said in a statement.

“This report’s projections, based on the latest data, show a major supply surplus emerging this decade, suggesting that oil companies may want to make sure their business strategies and plans are prepared for the changes taking place,” he added.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/12/big-...d-by-2030.html
post 1702347651 06-13-2024, 06:37 AM
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#29
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Originally Posted By NYPat
Republicans love to rape our natural resources and fuk the climate.

Just in time for an oil glut by 2030...

Big Oil given stark warning as peak crude and a major supply surplus expected by 2030



https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/12/big-...d-by-2030.html
I don't think you understand what this thread is about. This is about deciding on whether government agencies are given preference in court to their interpretation of a law/act versus going by the way the law is written.

This goes for all agencies.
post 1702347791 06-13-2024, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted By gachase21
I don't think you understand what this thread is about.
I think they are wired to derail
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