If you can show me where it says that I'd be interested. I've yet to cross that part.
Rather, it says

Quran 60:8
Allah does not forbid you from dealing kindly and fairly with those who have neither fought nor driven you out of your homes. Surely Allah loves those who are fair.

Quran 2:256
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut (False Gods) and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

And fair enough; exchanging viewpoints is good.Are you implying that Our means plurality? In the semitic languages, they use plurality as a way of meaning royalty (just as in English, we have the Royal "We"). It shows power and strength.
Just like in the O.T., it says "We will make you Elohim over Pharoah". This is referring to Moses. But we know there isn't more than 1 Moses. This is why the Israelites never ever made plurality with God. God was always one.

Even then, Jesus is not the alpha/omega. He said there is still stuff to come. He said there is more to come and that they were waiting for a Prophet to come.

John 16:12-13
I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

And you might say it's the Holy Spirit but that's incorrect. The Holy Spirit was with Jesus and even to add, it says "He will not speak of his own". God doesn't need permission from someone else to speak. It cannot be the Holy Spirit.

John 1:19
Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.
He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”
They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”

Wrong.
"To whom" would indicate an additional person was being addressed
"who" meaning singular as God is Singular..that encompasses 3 sub sets

stay ignorant..it's why you are an atheist..that clearly never went further than High School

It's debated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Verse

is a famous one. Anyway, seeing as how they still execute atheists in many Islamic nations, nothx jeffrey. Ofc I'll magically be "Muslim" if I ever end up there lmao.

Bro are you braindead or something? You are asking who God was talking to. You would phrase that "To whom was God talking?"

I have multiple graduate degrees...

[QUOTE=miscerForLulz post_id=1668774543]If you can show me where it says that I'd be interested. I've yet to cross that part.
Rather, it says

Quran 60:8
Allah does not forbid you from dealing kindly and fairly with those who have neither fought nor driven you out of your homes. Surely Allah loves those who are fair.

Quran 2:256
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut (False Gods) and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

And fair enough; exchanging viewpoints is good.



Are you implying that Our means plurality? In the semitic languages, they use plurality as a way of meaning royalty (just as in English, we have the Royal "We"). It shows power and strength.
Just like in the O.T., it says "We will make you Elohim over Pharoah". This is referring to Moses. But we know there isn't more than 1 Moses. This is why the Israelites never ever made plurality with God. God was always one.

Even then, Jesus is not the alpha/omega. He said there is still stuff to come. He said there is more to come and that they were waiting for a Prophet to come.

John 16:12-13
I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

And you might say it's the Holy Spirit but that's incorrect. The Holy Spirit was with Jesus and even to add, it says "He will not speak of his own". God doesn't need permission from someone else to speak. It cannot be the Holy Spirit.

John 1:19
Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.
He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”
They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”[/QUOTE]John 1:109 is speaking of John the Baptist when it says.." I am not the Christ"...what are you even eluding to here???


No..look up the Greek For Gen 1:26...which btw you never addressed when I disproved you for John 1:1

Jesus is called Emmanual..which is plural..for God is with Us..

No. Nothing comes after Revelation...He/Jesus has the Final Word...

Rev 22:18

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;"

Btw in John 1:19..you need to finish reading..

Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”

20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”

21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

And he answered, “No.”

22 Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”

23 He said: “I am

‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’

as the prophet Isaiah said.”


This is not Jesus speaking!!!!

And the Holy Spirit was released AFTER Jesus's death...
Acts 2 1-13

"When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

To..is not needed.

"multiple graduate degrees"

okay Bodhy

Sure thing, flat earther, evolution denier, antivaxxer, and now...bad grammer...er!!!! Suck my balls.

Get your next booster yet Wincel..or is it Bodhy?

[QUOTE=PutinItInYoGirl post_id=1668774733]It's debated.

[URL=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Verse]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Verse[/URL]

is a famous one. Anyway, seeing as how they still execute atheists in many Islamic nations, nothx jeffrey. Ofc I'll magically be "Muslim" if I ever end up there lmao.[/QUOTE]Ok good point and let's discuss it since I want to clear that up.

When the Muslims were in city of Mecca, Prophet Mohamed started inviting people to the religion. Some people accepted; others got angry. It got to a point where they had to flee because they were being killed and tortured without fighting back (Allah did not allow them at that time to fight back). So, the Muslims fled to the city of Medina and the people opened their arms to them. They then wanted to go back to fight the people who kicked them out in the first place from Mecca. It's not an Islam thing; if someone kicks me out of my home, I have the right to fight back, and no one will disagree with that.

Now the wars start; there were battles and eventually the Muslims won. You know how they won; they march into the city with 100k people, and they prayed. The enemies dropped their weapons due to the numbers and they gathered the leaders of the opposing and Prophet Mohamed said what? He stated what Joseph, son of Jacob said to his brother when they threw him down a well and years later, he's in a high role in Egypt. He said, "There is no blame on you today".

Revelation comes and says what? These people who fought you, give them 4 months to think about it (the faith) that is. Bring them to a place that is safe, so they don't feel intimidated. If they reject, they better not come back and if they do, then fight them. Drive them out just like they did to you.

This is the specific context in that one instance; it isn't a universal law. This is a historic point that happened and has nothing to do with today.

[QUOTE=Paul Kreul post_id=1668774873]John 1:109 is speaking of John the Baptist when it says.." I am not the Christ"...what are you even eluding to here???


No..look up the Greek For Gen 1:26...which btw you never addressed when I disproved you for John 1:1

Jesus is called Emmanual..which is plural..for God is with Us..

No. Nothing comes after Revelation...He/Jesus has the Final Word...

Rev 22:18

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;"

Btw in John 1:19..you need to finish reading..

Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”

20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”

21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

And he answered, “No.”

22 Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”

23 He said: “I am

‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’

as the prophet Isaiah said.”


This is not Jesus speaking!!!!

And the Holy Spirit was released AFTER Jesus's death...
Acts 2 1-13

"When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them [b]divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."[/QUOTE]Define Gods attributes. Let's start there. Otherwise, we're spinning wheels tbh.

Dunno who Wincel is. Sounds like a strapping young lad. I got my bivalent.

Sure, but they still execute atheists in many Islamic countries...

Once again..you keep shifting the argument. Jesus declared Himself to be God, his disciples declared Him to be God, His death on the cross taking upon the world’s sin & resurrection is evidence that He is God…you keep thinking because Jesus did not “know something” therefore He is not God..I’ve explained this over & over to you with Scripture reference as proof.
You have fallen for a lie (Muslim beliefs) that are not supported with any evidence.

kettle, meet pot

Did you find that “missing link” yet?

Whatever disingenuous reading you do, the studies do offer a lot of profundity of value to our lives. It is clear many critics did not learn these ideas or others that serve them better, and they would improve their lives to

Ok, but you're making the assumption that I think it's correct firstly and saying that it's Islam that tells them to do that. What does them executing people have anything to do with the religion? You need to kind of glue them together (you had that verse and I explained it but that's for you to accept it or reject).

Theology is more my thing brah so if you have questions, then that's cool. Otherwise, rather talk with my Christian brah on Jesus and don't mind him asking me questions either.I mean I think we might have different definitions of God then which maybe we need to agree on before discussing lol what do you think?
Let's kind of start over and agree on some term. We both believe in a creator which is a good start. What are some of his attributes?

For me:
He is all knowing
All powerful
Always existed and will always exist
Knows everything all the time

No no I don't accuse you of anything. I just meant the religion, taken to its extreme can be dangerous. I have a family member who is Muslim. I wouldn't presume everyone is like that.

Yea no worries. At least you're polite, unlike bozo the clown evolution denier over here.

Agreed on definitions of God, but clearly you are trying to pigeon hole out of ignorance. If God is all powerfull, then He can choose willingly to render certain abilities..in which He did so when He became a man..

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though He was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

The Scripture clearly states that Jesus is God, yet emptied Himself by taking on the FORM of a servant..are you disagreeing?

And he has the right to deny it; I still wouldn't call him something bad. Simply wish him well and may God guide him.
If I think I have something good, I want it for others. I want guidance for everyone tbh and may Allah open all our hearts to faith. I have to be that example firstly; I can't expect others to be good and me, myself, not even follow that.

Quran 2:44
Do you preach righteousness and fail to practice it yourselves, although you read the Scripture? Do you not understand?

And how are they to you in your opinion (that Muslim relative)?

I try but I am human; my Prophet said the best amongst you are the best in character.

He said:
All mankind is from Adam and Hawa (Eve), an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action.You're jumping lol

Can God choose not to exist?

Can you explain how I'm "jumping"..I'm not sure if you know what certain words mean. srs.
So far you have been incorrect on..

John 1:1 and the Greek Translation
-The meaning of Alpha
-The Meaning of Omega
-When the Holy Spirit was released
-The understanding of "render", and "form"
-Not understanding the use of "our"

I'm not the one that has to ignore and misinterpret Scripture to fit a narrative..in fact, you haven't even addressed the multitude of Scriptures I posted of Jesus Himself declaring to be God. Your argument relies on a single Scripture in which you do not comprehend it's meaning..

What is some of your attributes on God? I put mine and didn't get an answer.

And from the same point, can God cease to exist if he wants?

You are quoting the Bible right? Is that the word of God?

We agree on attributes of God..and again, God Relinquished his Divine abilities when He took on the form of man.

Why are you denying Phillipians 2:5-11?

Which is supported in Colossians 2:9. He said, “For in him” — in Christ — “the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.”

DNA is a coded language.

Give me just one example of a language that did not come from a mind

I think we should just go our own ways tbh - we're just disagreeing at this point lol. To me, if God knows everything all the time, then he will never ever forget something at one point. Otherwise, that is not the definition of God we agreed to. The rest of your points don't even matter if we don't agree on who God is even. It says only the Father knows of it. Jesus in his humanity and in his divinity is never the Father.

Secondly, inheriting sin makes no sense to me. I'd prefer Allah since he just forgave Adam and Eve instead. He didn't blame Eve for making Adam fall; Adam sinned as well. Allah blamed them both and he simply forgave them after they repented. Allah can do that because he is all merciful. No one needs to die for God to forgive. Two of Allah's name is "The All Forgiving" and "The All Merciful". Killing an innocent man for my sins does not tell me mercy tbh. Forgiveness is the ability to take action, but you pardon it instead. That is the true definition of a merciful God. No one inherits sin from their parents; that makes no sense in reality. You are held accountable for what you do and no one else. That just makes more sense in reality and is innately in us. What did I do in order to be blamed for what Adam did? We don't even run society like that. Do we blame the Germans today for what Hitler did? That would be oppression.

Forget about religion even, just common sense. Idc what religion you believe, we all can agree that is purely wrong. Those Germans have nothing to do with what happened in the past. Similarly, I have nothing to do with what Adam and Eve did. God doesn't oppress us like that.

Feel free to reply and I wish you the best and if I said anything insulting, please forgive me. May Allah guide us all.

For Christians who are curious about the family of Imran (aka the Father of Mary) from a Muslim perspective. Similar to the Biblical narrative where Zakariya prayed to God for a son (who was John) and the story of Mary and Jesus Birth.

Keep working on your debate skills but valid attempt.

Beyond the stuff you mentioned and their false interpretations that should’ve challenged, you have to challenge the validity of the gospels. From there you need to study the shift that Paul does from Jesus. Once you learn those differences, Christianity just falls apart.

I want goodness for Christians, hence why I am trying to have convos.

A Christian scholar, one of the world's most renounce scholars, who is now a scholar in Christianity (he left Christianity) talks exactly about these issues of the manuscripts.



Aware on Paul - had a vision that Jesus appeared to him and all of a sudden you don't need to follow the old laws. Who is he and who granted him that? That's not evidence. Even the disciples had issues with Paul (Acts Chapter 17 and 21). He even lied to them straight to their face. Paul went to the Jews and said, "You don't need to follow the law anymore".

Even throw Constantine and who gave him authority over the Bible? Some Gospels were thrown out and some kept? What happened to the Gospels according to Mary Magdelin, according to Barnabus, etc? How did they decide what was cannon and wasn't? Shouldn't it have been Cannon from day 1?

How do I respond to someone ignorant of basic biology?

'cat' as in a member of the family Felidae, is not a species, in any remotely conventional use of that term. This is babble and mindless. You were previously talking about speciation. 'Plant' is not a species smdh.

I'll await that published research Paul. People babbling on a forum means jack. You are wrong in essentially every post on this topic, even in matters of elementary biology. Not that it matters to the world or science. Publish first. Then we'll go from there.

You and I, and all humans, share a common ancestor with literal chimps (and the multitudes of other species out there). That fact wont be refuted with mere wordy debates on a forum, that's not how science is done.

At some point you gota stop giving your pearls to pigs, and dust off your feet.

To me, this resonates on a metaphorical level.

They say 'scandal' is inevitable, and we can see we all inherit imperfect families and other sinful parts of the world. One would not automatically know everything needed to know to face these, so it makes sense to spread knowledge and give them time to learn.

It is obvious a lot of principles are true. In fact apologetics typically say proof of deism and the fact these teachings nourish the soul can be proven while the personal intervention is a different question. So, we know these values help us more than not, regardless historical questions.

The inheritance of sin resonates or the Islamic perspective sorry?

A bit lost tbh what did you mean here? Apologetics and Deism aren't really the same thing?