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Forum » A cop perspective on police "racism"
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Thread: A cop perspective on police "racism"

post 1607565471 06-12-2020, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Black on black 35% legal tint. No decals. Stock Laramie black wheels and tires.
Oh.... Black tires

Male late 20s to mid 30s skewing towards the younger side if military. I'd lean towards black but not hard, if so they're in a fairly straight cut job like police/enlisted military or lvl 2-3 office worker.

Not a vehicle I'd choose to pull over if I was tight on quota but I'd give it a 30% blackness rating and 60% white.


Remember that they're speeding so that knocks down the older ram owners likelihood which would lean away from the straight cut profession I'd expect in a younger driver and make whiteness a higher percent.
post 1607566111 06-12-2020, 02:13 PM
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This just makes me glad I passed on a few offers from local PDs and stuck with Corrections, less public interaction makes the job easier in many ways.
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post 1607566401 06-12-2020, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
The real question is how many coworkers are "cool and neutral" like you?
How many "bad apples" do you work with?
Are you unique or are most officers exactly like you in your area?

Only then can we continue.
I have known one cop out of all of the cops I have met who was racist, officers tried to get him fired but he got promoted. I left that department. I agree with all the arguments for accountability and reforming some things with police departments but things have to be evaluated very carefully without making the community suffer by crime escalating, or officers dying because they arent given the tools and protection by policy to defend themselves and the public.
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post 1607566591 06-12-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted By ThisIsMyAlias⏩
As a self-proclaimed car guy I'd like to think I can pick out the kind of person (not always race but definitely culture and personality) who owns a car with fairly high accuracy.

I bet I could get withing a 10% margin of error if you asked me to only pull over people of whichever race. Except Indians, they're a bit of a wildcard when it comes to cars. Pulling over only black people would be the hardest but I could only pull over white people or Asians all day.
If you want Indians just pull over every Honda Odyssey you see.
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post 1607566731 06-12-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
My city's city council unanimously voted on the defunding last night, one of the items in the proposal is to have zero racial disparity in traffic stops....
Pulls over a hispanic man

"ohhh **** i can only pull over 3 more white people and one more asian today, please drive safe sir"
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post 1607566931 06-12-2020, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Smithers115⏩
Pulls over a hispanic man

"ohhh **** i can only pull over 3 more white people and one more asian today, please drive safe sir"
Then at the end of the month they’ll look at our tickets and calculate how many you can give a race for the next month, that way it’ll be “equal” at the end of the year
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post 1607567111 06-12-2020, 02:24 PM
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It couldn't be that more traffic stops involve POC because they commit more moving violations??

I remember this jewel from years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/21/n...ew-jersey.html






A few tidbits below....
The task was complicated, but the reason for it was simple: numerous studies have shown that police officers in New Jersey and elsewhere stop black and Hispanic drivers for speeding more often than they stop whites. What is less certain is why -- how much of that disparity is because of racial profiling and how much, if any, is attributable to differences in driving behavior, which have never been adequately documented.

But rather than clarifying the issue, the study created its own muddle. Justice Department officials say they have such serious questions about the methods used to gather the data that they have asked New Jersey's attorney general not to release the findings. It is not clear whether they will be made public.

The study involved photographing tens of thousands of drivers on the turnpike last spring while clocking speed with a radar gun. It found that black drivers sped much more than other drivers, according to three people who have reviewed the unreleased report. The racial gap was far wider than officials had expected and, in the politically charged controversies over profiling, the data could be used by defenders of the state police to argue that one reason black drivers are stopped more often than whites is that they are more likely to speed.


The analysis of speeders on the New Jersey Turnpike was designed to reduce human error by using high-speed photography to help identify the race of drivers.

The study used specially designed radar gun cameras, which are used to photograph the license plates of speeders and whose photos are accepted as evidence in many courts around the country, to capture images of drivers in a variety of locations on the turnpike. The study defined speeding as exceeding the speed limit by 15 miles per hour, and officers are instructed to focus on the most egregious speeders......

Those results startled officials in the state attorney general's office, who had assumed that the radar study would bolster their case that profiling was widespread. Instead, the study concluded that blacks make up 16 percent of the drivers on the turnpike and 25 percent of the speeders in the 65 m.p.h. zones, where complaints of profiling have been most common. "
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post 1607567151 06-12-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By Smithers115⏩
Pulls over a hispanic man

"ohhh **** i can only pull over 3 more white people and one more asian today, please drive safe sir"
They white on the census
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post 1607567171 06-12-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
I have known one cop out of all of the cops I have met who was racist, officers tried to get him fired but he got promoted. I left that department. I agree with all the arguments for accountability and reforming some things with police departments but things have to be evaluated very carefully without making the community suffer by crime escalating, or officers dying because they arent given the tools and protection by policy to defend themselves and the public.
"but he got promoted"

Well cameras are step 1(left on) and non lethal arrests would be a great step 2.
You know this already, but the imagery of a Black dude getting his *ass handed to him* while mass shooters in churches, stores, movie theaters, and other places get arrested calmly is quite problematic for most observers.

just something to think about.
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post 1607567241 06-12-2020, 02:26 PM
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post 1607567461 06-12-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Cudabrah⏩
It couldn't be that more traffic stops involve POC because they commit more moving violations??

I remember this jewel from years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/21/n...ew-jersey.html






A few tidbits below....
NJ turnpike speeders

so 1/4 25% speeders are Afam
and 3/4 75% are not ....
good to know
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post 1607567481 06-12-2020, 02:28 PM
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there is bias in some cops. Plenty of scum work the job. I don’t take it personal tho I know you’re just out meeting your quota generating revenue because it’s not about “safety”
post 1607567771 06-12-2020, 02:32 PM
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It's funny how someone's perceived interpretation of a situation becomes reality even thought the truth is something else.

This reminds me of something that happened to me and my buddies back in high school.

I actually brought this up in Feb. because I was at one of their houses and they're black and their family and I were talking about a black history month thing his work was doing and how every black person had a story of them not getting something because they were black. So I brought this up.

3 of us were walking back from the mall to school. I'm white, he's black and our other friend is brown.

Undercover cop pulls up and tells the 3 of us to stop and then asked for I.D. and started asking us questions. Where we were going, what we were doing, what school do you go to etc.

After about 5 min of questioning he gets called away and gives us back our I.D.'s and leaves.

Both of them are annoyed and go to me "see, this is what it's like to be a minority here" "we always get stopped for no reason" "If you weren't white you would get this more" "He probably saw you with us and thought you were in trouble and needed help"

Not even 1 minute of walking later we notice the same cop with another cop searching....... a white guy who looked an awful lot like me.

Both of them were absolutely dumbfounded, all the could say was "oh, he was looking at you"

It's like it didn't cross their mind that maybe the cop had a description and one of us matched it.

Anyway, I brought this up in Feb because I said that was a clear example of my friends having a racial bias that they imposed on the situation when it didn't actually exist.

And mainly, that if the cops found that guy 5 min later or on the other side of the mall we would of had no idea and their racial bias would have been "true" because we would have never seen them searching the white guy.

So how many times have minorities and especially black people gone "oh ______ is only happening to me because I"m black" but in reality it had nothing to do with that. But because they were never shown the real reason or just refuse to believe it that becomes "their truth" and the "truth" that everyone gets told.

Just an interesting story I thought I'd share.
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post 1607567891 06-12-2020, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
My city's city council unanimously voted on the defunding last night, one of the items in the proposal is to have zero racial disparity in traffic stops....

I just dont get it, how can we control who is pulled over when we are looking for offenses, most of the time unless im driving 30mph or less and in the opposite direction I wont notice the race of the driver, much less if I am checking their stickers and plates.
I could honestly see in one of these crazy democrat run cities having the idea of a race quota. For example a police department could be like "too many black people have been pulled over for violations, stop pulling over black people". Or like "too little white or indian people have been pulled over, let's pull them over for going 5 over the limit or some bs that's technically illegal but who gives a fuk".

Or the opposite, let's pull over more black people to fit the narrative that black people are being oppressed and the system is racist. Sounds about a democrat thing to do. Rig the system in order to pander to the very people they are fuking over.
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post 1607568081 06-12-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By Sandmang27⏩
Anyway, I brought this up in Feb because I said that was a clear example of my friends having a racial bias that they imposed on the situation when it didn't actually exist.

And mainly, that if the cops found that guy 5 min later or on the other side of the mall we would of had no idea and their racial bias would have been "true" because we would have never seen them searching the white guy.

So how many times have minorities and especially black people gone "oh ______ is only happening to me because I"m black" but in reality it had nothing to do with that. But because they were never shown the real reason or just refuse to believe it that becomes "their truth" and the "truth" that everyone gets told.

Just an interesting story I thought I'd share.
this is the nature of any attribution bias, its not specific to race.

i have extreme problems with attribution bias because a lot of times i end up engaged in conversations with folks and i assume they are capable of general intelligent discussion. i assume people are not dumb.
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post 1607568121 06-12-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By SpeedMan1⏩
there is bias in some cops. Plenty of scum work the job. I don’t take it personal tho I know you’re just out meeting your quota generating revenue because it’s not about “safety”
Another misnomer. Quotas are illegal and we have cause to make huge money on a settlement should we be made to enforce a quota. Again facts are a hard thing to argue with if you took the time to actually look them up. I would love for a supervisor to tell me this and record them. Stop spreading falsehoods. You can call officers scum all you'd like but again facts do not back up your claim. You are emoting. Sorry someone hurt your feelings or you have been told that your feelings should be hurt. It's a lie.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1oVQaHY8hoFv6z

https://www.whittierdailynews.com/20...et-quota-case/

https://www.nola.com/news/courts/art...7a8b81367.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UsPMPsN_Dh6bPx

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vWmsdvNsucyb8W
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post 1607568221 06-12-2020, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
"but he got promoted"

Well cameras are step 1(left on) and non lethal arrests would be a great step 2.
You know this already, but the imagery of a Black dude getting his *ass handed to him* while mass shooters in churches, stores, movie theaters, and other places get arrested calmly is quite problematic for most observers.

just something to think about.
Cameras need better battery power to be left on for 12 hour shifts recording.

Also the manner in which a person is apprehended matters a lot, not just the crime. A mass shooter who lays down his gun and puts his hands up when police arrives is less likely to be shot than a man holding a knife 10 feet from a cop refusing to put it down and then takes a step forward, or a person hitting a police officer repeatedly and grabbing at his gun on his waistbelt.
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post 1607568371 06-12-2020, 02:39 PM
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I guess now when you roll up on a speeder, run their plates and it comes up as the car is registered to LaQuisha Jackson, you just arent allowed to turn the siren on.

More trouble than its worth.
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post 1607568471 06-12-2020, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By x-trainer
The real question is how many coworkers are "cool and neutral" like you?
How many "bad apples" do you work with?
Are you unique or are most officers exactly like you in your area?

Only then can we continue.
Exactly. Defunding the police is directly correlated to years of police abuse by BAD COPS. The good cops had many years to try to fix the system, but over and over again, bad cops get away with evil and shady ****.

It's not about racism, it's about police abuse of authority. It sucks for the good cops ITT, but in this case it's a matter of a minority of evil power abusing cops that has turned the people against ALL cops.

1 of countless examples in my city:https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/03/ho...olulu-history/

Here is a drug dealing cop, I've had numerous run-ins with. (I was an EMT). He basically terrorized everyone he came across while holding a gun and badge. He was found with $100k+ worth of drugs in his apartment during a SWAT raid.

He got 2 months in jail. Typical "Justice" for bad cops.
post 1607568581 06-12-2020, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Another misnomer. Quotas are illegal and we have cause to make huge money on a settlement should we be made to enforce a quota. Again facts are a hard thing to argue with if you took the time to actually look them up. I would love for a supervisor to tell me this and record them. Stop spreading falsehoods. You can call officers scum all you'd like but again facts do not back up your claim. You are emoting. Sorry someone hurt your feelings or you have been told that your feelings should be hurt. It's a lie.
its good quotas are illegal but you p quickly produced 5 links stating that they occur verifiably. is a department smart enough to flex quotas in an un-(legally)-verifiable way?
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post 1607568811 06-12-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
this is the nature of any attribution bias, its not specific to race.

i have extreme problems with attribution bias because a lot of times i end up engaged in conversations with folks and i assume they are capable of general intelligent discussion. i assume people are not dumb.
Agreed it 100% definitely isn't specific to race but in the context of the OP it was just an interesting personal story I had.

I grew up in a very multicultural area and when it came to "oh this only happened to me because I'm *insert race*" the vast majority of the time it was my black friends.

So apply that to "racist police bias" where most of the time the cop has no idea who they are pulling over beforehand but it's now a known fact that they target black people because everyone knows someone who was "just pulled over because they were black" when they actually have no idea why and were probably just speeding or didn't indicate.
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post 1607569141 06-12-2020, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted By rgnx⏩
Exactly. Defunding the police is directly correlated to years of police abuse by BAD COPS. The good cops had many years to try to fix the system, but over and over again, bad cops get away with evil and shady ****.

It's not about racism, it's about police abuse of authority. It sucks for the good cops ITT, but in this case it's a matter of a minority of evil power abusing cops that has turned the people against ALL cops.

1 of countless examples in my city:https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/03/ho...olulu-history/

Here is a drug dealing cop, I've had numerous run-ins with. (I was an EMT). He basically terrorized everyone he came across while holding a gun and badge. He was found with $100k+ worth of drugs in his apartment during a SWAT raid.

He got 2 months in jail. Typical "Justice" for bad cops.
so defunding them is punishment for not fixing the problem?

sounds like that will benefit the communities and they will take the spanking to heart and not do it again.

Strong child logic.
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post 1607569151 06-12-2020, 02:48 PM
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Jestbrah you know the media is playing both sides right? Even those politicians.

There are some instances of inequality and bias in policing or in any human facing career. We have implicit and unconscious biases. That's human nature. What I think the issue is that in some instances it escalates to something more dangerous and that's what we are trying to prevent.

I do wish the media would highlight injustices where white people faced these situation because I know the media skews it.


Side Note: What do you think about cops learning BJJ to learn how to properly restrain people? I know some LEO do it on their own but what if it was something that was mandate?
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post 1607569181 06-12-2020, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted By memcop⏩
Another misnomer. Quotas are illegal and we have cause to make huge money on a settlement should we be made to enforce a quota. Again facts are a hard thing to argue with if you took the time to actually look them up. I would love for a supervisor to tell me this and record them. Stop spreading falsehoods. You can call officers scum all you'd like but again facts do not back up your claim. You are emoting. Sorry someone hurt your feelings or you have been told that your feelings should be hurt. It's a lie.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1oVQaHY8hoFv6z

https://www.whittierdailynews.com/20...et-quota-case/

https://www.nola.com/news/courts/art...7a8b81367.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UsPMPsN_Dh6bPx

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vWmsdvNsucyb8W
So you’re telling me the department is aware of the backlash that could occur if they force quotas on cops and yet thats not enough to deter them? Hilarious, thanks for proving my point
post 1607569491 06-12-2020, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
so defunding them is punishment for not fixing the problem?

sounds like that will benefit the communities and they will take the spanking to heart and not do it again.

Strong child logic.
I actually strongly disagree with de-funding the police. I think police are either a great public service or a public threat, depending on the individual officer. The pro's of having a fully capable police force outweigh the con's. But when it comes to police abuse and authority, something had to be done. It's a problem good cops need to fully embrace to change the system.

Look at you saying "strong child logic" when I'm merely explaining why there is so much negative sentiment towards cops. You don't even try to understand it.

Cops ruining innocent lives way too often surely overshadows the good deeds of cops due to media. Ya'll NEEDED to purge yourself before the people are forced to do it. Which it has come to, and I dis agree with.

IF cops were treated equally for their crimes in the court, compared to normal people. That would be good enough for me. But even that is not happening as seen in my previous post.
post 1607569751 06-12-2020, 02:56 PM
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#56
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
its good quotas are illegal but you p quickly produced 5 links stating that they occur verifiably. is a department smart enough to flex quotas in an un-(legally)-verifiable way?
Yup. My first department did that. They didnt do it for revenue though I guarantee it. They did it because of lazy management style where they could base an officer "doing his job" by how many warnings/citations they wrote a month.

They called them "contacts" and officers were "suggested" to make a certain amount of contacts everyday. They were told they could do citizen "interviews" as long as they were recorded on paper and turned in to count as contacts, or traffic warnings or traffic citations.
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post 1607569991 06-12-2020, 03:00 PM
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#57
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Originally Posted By sword_⏩
Jestbrah you know the media is playing both sides right? Even those politicians.

There are some instances of inequality and bias in policing or in any human facing career. We have implicit and unconscious biases. That's human nature. What I think the issue is that in some instances it escalates to something more dangerous and that's what we are trying to prevent.

I do wish the media would highlight injustices where white people faced these situation because I know the media skews it.


Side Note: What do you think about cops learning BJJ to learn how to properly restrain people? I know some LEO do it on their own but what if it was something that was mandate?
I am all for that, but that once again requires police FUNDING not DEFUNDING.

Just like I think police should have associates or bachelor's degrees. You cant fill positions with the current pay in many places and have that requirement. I think police administration needs a VERY hard looking at because thats where I see most problems in policing.

I also think just because many officers will never fire their pistol at a person in their career, does not mean we should take their pistols away from them.

Just because a department may not use their militarized gear for the vast majority of situations, doesnt mean we should take that away from them. The one or two or more instances they NEED that equipment, and dont have it, is one too many because that devalues those officers lives and the safety and security of the public.
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post 1607570531 06-12-2020, 03:09 PM
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#58
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Originally Posted By Jestbrah⏩
Yup. My first department did that. They didnt do it for revenue though I guarantee it. They did it because of lazy management style where they could base an officer "doing his job" by how many warnings/citations they wrote a month.

They called them "contacts" and officers were "suggested" to make a certain amount of contacts everyday. They were told they could do citizen "interviews" as long as they were recorded on paper and turned in to count as contacts, or traffic warnings or traffic citations.
thas p dumb because it makes your job harder in the long run imo, setting yall up for failure
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post 1607570851 06-12-2020, 03:14 PM
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#59
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Originally Posted By sword_⏩
Jestbrah you know the media is playing both sides right? Even those politicians.

There are some instances of inequality and bias in policing or in any human facing career. We have implicit and unconscious biases. That's human nature. What I think the issue is that in some instances it escalates to something more dangerous and that's what we are trying to prevent.

I do wish the media would highlight injustices where white people faced these situation because I know the media skews it.


Side Note: What do you think about cops learning BJJ to learn how to properly restrain people? I know some LEO do it on their own but what if it was something that was mandate?
Hey brah just thought I'd chime in on the bjj aspect. In an ideal world every cop would be required to have a certain standard of grappling, bjj or wrestling would be excellent.

It would probably need to be trained 2-3 times a week and after maybe 6months -1 year the cop could be pretty proficient (in comparison to your average Joe), (it would also cut down on lard ass cops as training bjj 3x a week with rolling would leave you in pretty decent shape).

One major issue I see is the high likelihood of injury. I'm not saying bjj is a "brutal" sport by any means but it is quite vigorous and if you take out of shape 30-40 year olds and have them training regularly, odds are quite a few are going to receive injuries which leave them unfit to work whether it be for a few days or potentially a year in the case of a knee ligament injury. If you were to water down bjj and limit the live sparring, although it would drastically reduce injury risk it probably wouldn't be as effective.

It could potentially work if it was implemented with all rookie cops as they're less likely to get injured while young and fit.
post 1607571011 06-12-2020, 03:16 PM
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#60
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**** this gay earth. 99% of cops are good. You are going to defund\disband them because of a few bad apples? I can't fathom the stupidity.

The solution is more funding, better training, and more accountability.

It doesn't matter what replaces it if you don't have those three things. The result will be the same or worse.
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