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Edward "The Boss" Snowden back on Joe Rogan Podcast
09-17-2020, 07:43 AM
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#31
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Originally Posted By makadelic⏩
Not at all. I am saying you are no better off now then you were before. He could have actually resolved the issue if he went to his immediate supervisor. Also, he was a contractor and didn't even have access to the information that he stole. There are several polices and laws in place to prevent things like this from happening but he didn't even follow them himself. So what good would it do if the very person that is reporting it is in fact abusing that power? One thing for sure he made it really easy for people to identify themselves as gullible for believing he is anything other than an attention seeker. He could have been the agent of change, but he just wanted to become infamous.So your argument is that because we can't do much about it, we should continue to have information hidden from us by our government that violates our rights? We shouldn't have anyone blow the whistle on anything unless it can be fixed right away?
And it helped get the USA freedom act in, which helped reform provisions of the Patriot act.
Also
Klayman v. Obama
U.S. Federal Judge Richard J. Leon ruled bulk collection of American telephone metadata likely violates the Fourth Amendment.
ACLU v. Clapper
Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled that the call-records program violates Section 215 of the Patriot Act.
And it helped get the USA freedom act in, which helped reform provisions of the Patriot act.
Also
Klayman v. Obama
U.S. Federal Judge Richard J. Leon ruled bulk collection of American telephone metadata likely violates the Fourth Amendment.
ACLU v. Clapper
Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled that the call-records program violates Section 215 of the Patriot Act.
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09-17-2020, 07:56 AM
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#32
- cool-beans
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Happy other people here see his interviews as kinda weird.. guy takes 10 minutes to answer something that should take 30 seconds.
Some people here seem butt hurt though? Seems like he was much more than an IT guy... was involved in some programs. You guys make it sounds like he works for AT&T lol.
Also, I think what he did is important because he confirmed the rumours of government surveillance.
Some people here seem butt hurt though? Seems like he was much more than an IT guy... was involved in some programs. You guys make it sounds like he works for AT&T lol.
Also, I think what he did is important because he confirmed the rumours of government surveillance.
09-17-2020, 07:57 AM
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#33
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Originally Posted By devilbones⏩
Where did you get this info about him being a contractor etc.Not at all. I am saying you are no better off now then you were before. He could have actually resolved the issue if he went to his immediate supervisor. Also, he was a contractor and didn't even have access to the information that he stole. There are several polices and laws in place to prevent things like this from happening but he didn't even follow them himself. So what good would it do if the very person that is reporting it is in fact abusing that power? One thing for sure he made it really easy for people to identify themselves as gullible for believing he is anything other than an attention seeker. He could have been the agent of change, but he just wanted to become infamous.
09-17-2020, 08:01 AM
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#34
Originally Posted By devilbones⏩
Some of the problem with the lawsuits against the bulk collection have been that people haven't been able to prove the collection occurred. Snowden did help in that regard. I'm not up on my lawsuits, but I did see this came out a little while ago.And what did it do? Did the government stop collecting your data? What have you done with the knowledge that he shared with you that allows you to protect yourself from the government programs he reported?
A federal appeals court on Wednesday handed down a long-anticipated opinion in the case of four ****li men convicted of aiding terrorists, ruling that the government illegally collected the telephone metadata of millions of Americans as part of a sweeping surveillance program.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-****li-terrorSnowden is mentioned in the ruling.
Months after the trial, in June 2013, former National Security Agency (“NSA”) contractor Edward Snowden made public the existence of NSA data collection programs. One such program, conducted under FISA Subchapter IV, involved the bulk collection of phone records, known as telephony metadata, from telecommunications providers. Other programs, conducted under the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, involved the collection of electronic communications, such as email messages and video chats, including those of people in the United States.
Snowden’s disclosure of the metadata program prompted significant public debate over the appropriate scope of government surveillance. In June 2015, Congress passed the USA FREEDOM Act, which effectively ended the NSA’s bulk telephony metadata collection program. Pub. L. No. 114-23, 129 Stat. 268 (codified at 50 U.S.C. § 1861). The Act prohibited further bulk collection of phone records after November 28, 2015. Id.; see Smith v. Obama, 816 F.3d 1239, 1241 (9th Cir. 2016). Besides ending the bulk collection program, Congress also established new reporting requirements relating to the government’s collection of call detail records. Pub. L. No. 114-23, § 601, 129 Stat. at 291.
https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto...2/13-50572.pdfSnowden’s disclosure of the metadata program prompted significant public debate over the appropriate scope of government surveillance. In June 2015, Congress passed the USA FREEDOM Act, which effectively ended the NSA’s bulk telephony metadata collection program. Pub. L. No. 114-23, 129 Stat. 268 (codified at 50 U.S.C. § 1861). The Act prohibited further bulk collection of phone records after November 28, 2015. Id.; see Smith v. Obama, 816 F.3d 1239, 1241 (9th Cir. 2016). Besides ending the bulk collection program, Congress also established new reporting requirements relating to the government’s collection of call detail records. Pub. L. No. 114-23, § 601, 129 Stat. at 291.
09-17-2020, 08:11 AM
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#35
- rectifryer
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You may have speculated what the patriot act was doing, but no one knew because the decisions were made in secret courts.
That alone was incredibly revealing. We reached a point in this country where secret courts were making decisions for the freedoms of civilians at large and in direct contradiction of the constitution without representation.
You're not american if you abide by that. That being said, A LOT of people had very reasonable and deep suspicions and criticized snowden for the leaks. However, in hindsight, I'm not sure there's anything that would have overcame the tide of the media than direct and active gov't documents which is fooking terrible. There is an IG process, and it would have went no where since every branch of gov't was behind the actions and enforcement of the patriot act.
What was missing was input from the people...
That alone was incredibly revealing. We reached a point in this country where secret courts were making decisions for the freedoms of civilians at large and in direct contradiction of the constitution without representation.
You're not american if you abide by that. That being said, A LOT of people had very reasonable and deep suspicions and criticized snowden for the leaks. However, in hindsight, I'm not sure there's anything that would have overcame the tide of the media than direct and active gov't documents which is fooking terrible. There is an IG process, and it would have went no where since every branch of gov't was behind the actions and enforcement of the patriot act.
What was missing was input from the people...
Boycott foodservice industry crew
09-17-2020, 08:34 AM
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#36
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Originally Posted By cool-beans⏩
He wrote a book. He sounds really convincing to people that have never been in the military nor government and might not know the subtle differences. He thought he was something that he wasnt and tried to understand something that was beyond the scope of what he knows.Where did you get this info about him being a contractor etc.
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09-17-2020, 08:41 AM
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#37
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Originally Posted By devilbones⏩
I've been in gov't, held sci clearances blah blah blah.He wrote a book. He sounds really convincing to people that have never been in the military nor government and might not know the subtle differences. He thought he was something that he wasnt and tried to understand something that was beyond the scope of what he knows.
Anytime you interface with the NSA before 2014 they would have a strict adherence to laws/acts/EOs requiring us intel to NOT inadvertently collect on US civilians. All plans had to eliminate the possibility of such. We spend a lot of money ensuring this didn't happen yet prism blew that assumption tf out of the water. I'm sure A LOT of people in the intel community are likewise surprised. That's the nature of compartmentalized information, after all.
I don't know why he didn't at least TRY to elevate the issue, though. I'm not defending him 100%. He's fooking guilty at least for not doing that.
Boycott foodservice industry crew
09-17-2020, 08:54 AM
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#38
- devilbones
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Originally Posted By rectifryer⏩
And this is why this is in courts. The government isnt collecting it. The data providers are and willingly gave it to the government. James Bamford wrote a book in '82 titled "The Puzzle Palace". In the book he describes how back when Western Union was sending ********s, they were giving copies of all of that to the Gov. Should the government have access to the same information that are adversaries would use against us? But I am sure with your former access you can see right through his lies and where he is trying to make himself seem more important than he was.I've been in gov't, held sci clearances blah blah blah.
Anytime you interface with the NSA before 2014 they would have a strict adherence to laws/acts/EOs requiring us intel to NOT inadvertently collect on US civilians. All plans had to eliminate the possibility of such. We spend a lot of money ensuring this didn't happen yet prism blew that assumption tf out of the water. I'm sure A LOT of people in the intel community are likewise surprised. That's the nature of compartmentalized information, after all.
I don't know why he didn't at least TRY to elevate the issue, though. I'm not defending him 100%. He's fooking guilty at least for not doing that.
Anytime you interface with the NSA before 2014 they would have a strict adherence to laws/acts/EOs requiring us intel to NOT inadvertently collect on US civilians. All plans had to eliminate the possibility of such. We spend a lot of money ensuring this didn't happen yet prism blew that assumption tf out of the water. I'm sure A LOT of people in the intel community are likewise surprised. That's the nature of compartmentalized information, after all.
I don't know why he didn't at least TRY to elevate the issue, though. I'm not defending him 100%. He's fooking guilty at least for not doing that.
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