Forum
»
Why were soldiers treated like human filth after returning from Vietnam?
07-03-2021, 02:11 PM
-
#31
Originally Posted By JUSA⏩
Spot on.The war was stupid and unpopular, so rather than get angry at the Democrat politicians who pushed us into it, you know the ones all the stupid hippies all voted for, they decided to scream and yell at the poor bastards being sent over there to fight the Democrat's war. Much easier than admitting you ****ed up and voting for a Republican. Before Bush, the GOP were actually very anti-wars, interestingly enough. Sort of, at least.
07-03-2021, 02:25 PM
-
#32
- Muzzlrpress
- Join Date: Jan 2011
- Location: United States
- Posts: 104,332
- Rep Power: 993953
-
-
Media propaganda
I'm back, bitches!
07-03-2021, 02:25 PM
-
#33
- Bigbuster1
- 41oz King
-
- Bigbuster1
- 41oz King
- Join Date: Aug 2013
- Posts: 10,571
- Rep Power: 86766
-
-
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
This is pretty much what we were taught in school to be honest. The Media had new unparalleled access, and obviously every journalist wants to tell a "compelling story".So aside from the obvious, which you pretty much covered...
It was the first time that media was allowed into and filmed a war. This led to a lot of normal people seeing the brutalities of war, things they were unaware of before and hadn't been exposed to. Sure, there were some baby killers, chit like that, etc. but the vast majority of soldiers were just doing a job and doing it the best they could. The hippies and such would see these low frequency, high profile events like a dead civilian and just blanket assume all soldiers were over there killing babies, not speaking up about civilian killings, etc. War sucks, has consequences, civilians will die. That's common knowledge now days, not that it should be acceptable, but it's understood as a reality.
It's kinda similar to what's happening to law enforcement now. With everyone having a camera now and body cams and all these allegations of (and actual) wrongdoings, it's easy to assume these low frequency high profile events are the norm, and the hippie types of today with their ACAB chit is similar to the hippies of Vietnam and their "All soldiers are baby killers".
It was the first time that media was allowed into and filmed a war. This led to a lot of normal people seeing the brutalities of war, things they were unaware of before and hadn't been exposed to. Sure, there were some baby killers, chit like that, etc. but the vast majority of soldiers were just doing a job and doing it the best they could. The hippies and such would see these low frequency, high profile events like a dead civilian and just blanket assume all soldiers were over there killing babies, not speaking up about civilian killings, etc. War sucks, has consequences, civilians will die. That's common knowledge now days, not that it should be acceptable, but it's understood as a reality.
It's kinda similar to what's happening to law enforcement now. With everyone having a camera now and body cams and all these allegations of (and actual) wrongdoings, it's easy to assume these low frequency high profile events are the norm, and the hippie types of today with their ACAB chit is similar to the hippies of Vietnam and their "All soldiers are baby killers".
Pretty accurate parallel with the ACAB/ BLM movement too
07-03-2021, 03:35 PM
-
#34
- tunafishha
- Registered CCP
-
- tunafishha
- Registered CCP
- Join Date: Nov 2014
- Posts: 29,114
- Rep Power: 27114
-
-
Originally Posted By Beast92⏩
yes they were.Weren't they killing innocent people and couldnt even claim a win for the home team?
*Catholic Crew*
*Community College Master Race*
*5'5 Masterrace*
*Starbucks Crew*
*Buy high, sell low*
07-03-2021, 03:44 PM
-
#35
- DolphinPilot
- Join Date: May 2015
- Posts: 49,469
- Rep Power: 367822
-
-
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
This plus the Vietcong army trained children to do some dirty work as well. I had a teacher in high school who gave a speech about his time in Vietnam and he said children walking up to GIs with live grenades was very common. To an extent a lot of them were the type to use women and children as human shields, too. In an effort to stay alive the US military had to some some real wretched ****, which obviously still haunted them years later.So aside from the obvious, which you pretty much covered...
It was the first time that media was allowed into and filmed a war. This led to a lot of normal people seeing the brutalities of war, things they were unaware of before and hadn't been exposed to. Sure, there were some baby killers, chit like that, etc. but the vast majority of soldiers were just doing a job and doing it the best they could. The hippies and such would see these low frequency, high profile events like a dead civilian and just blanket assume all soldiers were over there killing babies, not speaking up about civilian killings, etc. War sucks, has consequences, civilians will die. That's common knowledge now days, not that it should be acceptable, but it's understood as a reality.
It's kinda similar to what's happening to law enforcement now. With everyone having a camera now and body cams and all these allegations of (and actual) wrongdoings, it's easy to assume these low frequency high profile events are the norm, and the hippie types of today with their ACAB chit is similar to the hippies of Vietnam and their "All soldiers are baby killers".
It was the first time that media was allowed into and filmed a war. This led to a lot of normal people seeing the brutalities of war, things they were unaware of before and hadn't been exposed to. Sure, there were some baby killers, chit like that, etc. but the vast majority of soldiers were just doing a job and doing it the best they could. The hippies and such would see these low frequency, high profile events like a dead civilian and just blanket assume all soldiers were over there killing babies, not speaking up about civilian killings, etc. War sucks, has consequences, civilians will die. That's common knowledge now days, not that it should be acceptable, but it's understood as a reality.
It's kinda similar to what's happening to law enforcement now. With everyone having a camera now and body cams and all these allegations of (and actual) wrongdoings, it's easy to assume these low frequency high profile events are the norm, and the hippie types of today with their ACAB chit is similar to the hippies of Vietnam and their "All soldiers are baby killers".
07-03-2021, 03:45 PM
-
#36
- Ironmanlet
- Adamantium User
-
- Ironmanlet
- Adamantium User
- Join Date: Aug 2009
- Location: Cajun Country
- Age: 40
- Height: 5'7"
- Weight: 185 lbs
- Posts: 52,544
- Subscribers: 4
- Rep Power: 418637
-
-
People seem to forget individual soldiers, as humans, are separate from the political ideas driving current domestic and international relationships.
It is also a form of bullying. Someone sees a chance to make someone else look bad so they jump on that train to feel better about themselves.
I have no idea how anyone could be so against a certain demographic (don’t worry, no victim complex, they are just fine), especially during a draft. Those guys fighting that war didn’t even volunteer for it. They were told to do it. Literally by threat of physical force and legal kidnapping by the people who started the war.
It is also a form of bullying. Someone sees a chance to make someone else look bad so they jump on that train to feel better about themselves.
I have no idea how anyone could be so against a certain demographic (don’t worry, no victim complex, they are just fine), especially during a draft. Those guys fighting that war didn’t even volunteer for it. They were told to do it. Literally by threat of physical force and legal kidnapping by the people who started the war.
“The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.“
PS: Don't eat poop, just don't let the idea of it stop you from living life to its fullest.
07-03-2021, 03:51 PM
-
#37
- donkeydonger
- Registered User
-
- donkeydonger
- Registered User
- Join Date: May 2021
- Posts: 3,392
- Rep Power: 10625
-
-
Vietnam was going to become a Chinese bully-state and going through ethnic cleansing. They were exterminating Viet Muslims, Christians and Buddhists just like the Chinese are doing now to the Muslims.
The hippies that didn't want to go to Vietnam are the same fukkheads that became the boomer fuks who supported Bush admin bombing of Iraq and Afg over fake WMD.
The hippies were druggie losers who virtue signaled horse shid and ate up anti-war propaganda because we also targeted Vietnamese civilians (who were weaponized to fight the Americans). Vietnam would probably be just like N Korea if we didn't pound them in the ass.
The hippies that didn't want to go to Vietnam are the same fukkheads that became the boomer fuks who supported Bush admin bombing of Iraq and Afg over fake WMD.
The hippies were druggie losers who virtue signaled horse shid and ate up anti-war propaganda because we also targeted Vietnamese civilians (who were weaponized to fight the Americans). Vietnam would probably be just like N Korea if we didn't pound them in the ass.
Short, fat, and bald crew.
Married a halal virgin hbb crew.
No baby-killers in my circle - looking at you israel.
07-03-2021, 03:52 PM
-
#38
- Slamt
- Registered User
-
- Slamt
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jan 2013
- Age: 32
- Posts: 10,874
- Rep Power: 35518
-
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_Lai_massacre
People found out the Pentagon was working to actively cover up these incidents and not reporting the actual truth. They found out US claims of kills were civilians as opposed to enemies, etc.
Still retarded to take it out on the soldiers and not the people at command but still.
true alpha
People found out the Pentagon was working to actively cover up these incidents and not reporting the actual truth. They found out US claims of kills were civilians as opposed to enemies, etc.
Still retarded to take it out on the soldiers and not the people at command but still.
true alpha
07-03-2021, 04:06 PM
-
#39
- Cadet4life
- B- grad student
-
- Cadet4life
- B- grad student
- Join Date: Dec 2009
- Posts: 5,727
- Rep Power: 27080
-
-
doesn't matter 2-0 in world wars
be the turtle in the race.
07-03-2021, 04:24 PM
-
#40
- Dan_S
- Registered User
-
- Dan_S
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jan 2009
- Location: California, United States
- Age: 42
- Posts: 12,627
- Rep Power: 85920
-
-
Originally Posted By kovalchuk71⏩
Imagine all the current wokeness against corporations, whites, racists, capitalism, and every other issue, were all directed at the military industrial complex. That's why.I recently re-watched Rambo and could not understand why soldiers were harrassed, abused, and essentially treated like people of a lower caste. Was there not a draft? These individuals were forced to fight in Vietnam, no? Did civilians expect soldiers to make the "virtuous" decision, say "no", and rot in prison instead?
Or, was it as simple as civilians using soldiers as punching bags to release their pent up anger over the governments decision to go to war?
Or, was it as simple as civilians using soldiers as punching bags to release their pent up anger over the governments decision to go to war?
I'd guess mental illness and a youth culture that's completely devoid of reason.
07-03-2021, 04:26 PM
-
#41
- latverian41
- Registered User
-
- latverian41
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2016
- Age: 51
- Posts: 28,227
- Rep Power: 123665
-
-
Originally Posted By Beast92⏩
no, you idiot. perhaps you should research a little before running your mouth.Weren't they killing innocent people and couldnt even claim a win for the home team?
such things did happen. they are called war crimes. it happened in vietnam a little more than previous wars because of battle fatigue.
world war 1 world war 2 you had huge historic engagments. but the logistical process behind each one when they were over meant you had months and months of logistical build up before the next big PUSH.
in vietnam it was not uncommon for a marine or solider to finish up one battle and then all be flown by helicopter to another area within days of each other. this is why you had so many officers being murdered by the non comminished. especially towards the end when it was all but known amongst the troops that the war was lost.
and its important to take note. the war was lost politically. when it came to battles on the ground the U.S won almost "almost every one of them
people would watch the news and hear of the atrocious behavior of some military men and in their ignorance they blank statementted everyone that was their like the person or persons they would see on tv.
who gives a chit what those people were saying anyways. most were long haired draft dodging doped out hippies.
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
07-03-2021, 04:30 PM
-
#42
- BeanGainClovis
- Registered User
-
- BeanGainClovis
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2021
- Age: 56
- Posts: 10,696
- Rep Power: 58476
-
-
Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
Yes, this is why I respect service in the armed forces.People seem to forget individual soldiers, as humans, are separate from the political ideas driving current domestic and international relationships.
It is also a form of bullying. Someone sees a chance to make someone else look bad so they jump on that train to feel better about themselves.
I have no idea how anyone could be so against a certain demographic (don’t worry, no victim complex, they are just fine), especially during a draft. Those guys fighting that war didn’t even volunteer for it. They were told to do it. Literally by threat of physical force and legal kidnapping by the people who started the war.
It is also a form of bullying. Someone sees a chance to make someone else look bad so they jump on that train to feel better about themselves.
I have no idea how anyone could be so against a certain demographic (don’t worry, no victim complex, they are just fine), especially during a draft. Those guys fighting that war didn’t even volunteer for it. They were told to do it. Literally by threat of physical force and legal kidnapping by the people who started the war.
It is always old rich men who start these wars for their own gain, and it's everyone else who suffers for it.
I have grandparents who served and I don't look down on them for it. If anything I look up to them for it.
I even have family way back when who fought in the Confederacy as conscripts under threat of death.
They put their life on the line for their country. Even if the people in charge are corrupt, they deserve respect for making that sacrifice.
Beans. Cleans. Gasoline.
07-03-2021, 04:32 PM
-
#43
07-03-2021, 04:32 PM
-
#44
- elterrible987
- Banned
-
- elterrible987
- Banned
- Join Date: Jan 2010
- Posts: 51,859
- Rep Power: 0
-
-
monkey see monkey do
libtards at universities who didnt have to be drafted saw their friends doing it so it became the in thing to do is bash soldiers who were drafted
libtards at universities who didnt have to be drafted saw their friends doing it so it became the in thing to do is bash soldiers who were drafted
07-03-2021, 04:41 PM
-
#45
- Shortfuze
- "Your one f*ck fantasy"
-
- Shortfuze
- "Your one f*ck fantasy"
- Join Date: Feb 2004
- Location: United States
- Posts: 31,897
- Rep Power: 179945
-
-
I blame the media. After the Mai Lay massacre, they made US soldiers look like mindless killers who murdered men, women, children outright. They also highlighted racial tensions, drug abuses, and other terrible things about the military thus making them look even worse to the public. Ultimately the average soldier was made to be the scapegoat of the terrible decisions made by our political leaders who wanted a face-saving way to get out of Vietnam.
*Simplicity is the key to life*
Thanks ZBlacktt for the mod rep!
Thanks ForumSentinel for the admin rep!
Thanks Gxp23 for the mod rep!
Thanks 400LB Gorilla for the mod rep!
Thanks CountryMike for admin rep!
Thanks Nics1246 for mod rep!
I got married on August 24, 2013!!
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
07-03-2021, 04:55 PM
-
#46
Originally Posted By latverian41⏩
Re: the bolded parts...no, you idiot. perhaps you should research a little before running your mouth.
such things did happen. they are called war crimes. it happened in vietnam a little more than previous wars because of battle fatigue.
world war 1 world war 2 you had huge historic engagments. but the logistical process behind each one when they were over meant you had months and months of logistical build up before the next big PUSH.
in vietnam it was not uncommon for a marine or solider to finish up one battle and then all be flown by helicopter to another area within days of each other.this is why you had so many officers being murdered by the non comminished. especially towards the end when it was all but known amongst the troops that the war was lost.
and its important to take note. the war was lost politically. when it came to battles on the ground the U.S won almost "almost every one of them
people would watch the news and hear of the atrocious behavior of some military men and in their ignorance they blank statementted everyone that was their like the person or persons they would see on tv.
who gives a chit what those people were saying anyways. most were long haired draft dodging doped out hippies.
such things did happen. they are called war crimes. it happened in vietnam a little more than previous wars because of battle fatigue.
world war 1 world war 2 you had huge historic engagments. but the logistical process behind each one when they were over meant you had months and months of logistical build up before the next big PUSH.
in vietnam it was not uncommon for a marine or solider to finish up one battle and then all be flown by helicopter to another area within days of each other.this is why you had so many officers being murdered by the non comminished. especially towards the end when it was all but known amongst the troops that the war was lost.
and its important to take note. the war was lost politically. when it came to battles on the ground the U.S won almost "almost every one of them
people would watch the news and hear of the atrocious behavior of some military men and in their ignorance they blank statementted everyone that was their like the person or persons they would see on tv.
who gives a chit what those people were saying anyways. most were long haired draft dodging doped out hippies.
I don't think that's altogether accurate. In WWII, for example, soldiers were deployed for the duration of the war. If you've seenThe Pacificor read Eugene Sledge's book, they cover how much combat the Marines saw during their island hopping in the Pacific theater. A lot of those guys saw sustained combat for long periods. I think the reason there were so many war crimes / we're so aware of them was that a) there were war correspondents embedded with combat units reporting in what was more or less real time, and b) I think the nature of the Vietnam war just gave soldiers a lot more contact with helpless civilians, which made things like rape far more accessible.
Also, just wanted to add that many of the most ardent hippies were combat veterans. (See below.)
Spoiler!
07-03-2021, 05:12 PM
-
#47
- latverian41
- Registered User
-
- latverian41
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2016
- Age: 51
- Posts: 28,227
- Rep Power: 123665
-
-
Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
the pacific theater with japan ..your argument holds water, but the entire war for the U.S was what 3/4 years? .Re: the bolded parts...
I don't think that's altogether accurate. In WWII, for example, soldiers were deployed for the duration of the war. If you've seenThe Pacificor read Eugene Sledge's book, they cover how much combat the Marines saw during their island hopping in the Pacific theater. A lot of those guys saw sustained combat for long periods. I think the reason there were so many war crimes / we're so aware of them was that a) there were war correspondents embedded with combat units reporting in what was more or less real time, and b) I think the nature of the Vietnam war just gave soldiers a lot more contact with helpless civilians, which made things like rape far more accessible.
Also, just wanted to add that many of the most ardent hippies were combat veterans. (See below.)
Spoiler!
I don't think that's altogether accurate. In WWII, for example, soldiers were deployed for the duration of the war. If you've seenThe Pacificor read Eugene Sledge's book, they cover how much combat the Marines saw during their island hopping in the Pacific theater. A lot of those guys saw sustained combat for long periods. I think the reason there were so many war crimes / we're so aware of them was that a) there were war correspondents embedded with combat units reporting in what was more or less real time, and b) I think the nature of the Vietnam war just gave soldiers a lot more contact with helpless civilians, which made things like rape far more accessible.
Also, just wanted to add that many of the most ardent hippies were combat veterans. (See below.)
Spoiler!
the first fatality not causality in vietnam was what before president kennedy was murdred when we just had advisors? 62/63 till 74
1970+ maybe 71 when the troops started losing moral (which in part was due to their own countrymen rooted against them) they started to deny orders that they knew had a less than 50/50 chance of survivial. the vietnam war was the most dangerous time to be an officer and is historicall fact had the most non comishend murdering officers and denying orders.
but even in the pacfiic theater the time a soldier or marine seen in battle paled in comparison to those in vietnam. that does not take away from them or make them any less honorable it is just a fact.
i dont speak from bias either cause my family history has been traced back to the civil war, ,world war 1, world war 2, vietnam.
of course we both are speaking from books and it should probably be left to those who were there to debate.
as far s rape goes. look into what the soviets did to german women. a lot had to do with what S.S troops who were not soldiers but insane programed morons did to soviet women in operation Barbarossa. the stories of rape and such has been overblown in movies. did it happen? yes but not at the scale some might have the left believe
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
07-03-2021, 05:21 PM
-
#48
- AgRyan
- Bangarang.
-
- AgRyan
- Bangarang.
- Join Date: Oct 2010
- Location: United States
- Age: 38
- Posts: 26,364
- Rep Power: 224904
-
-
In WW2 at least you know you were fighting for your country and a good cause. If the US doesn't win in the Pacific... Japan is coming for America. That's a worthwhile cause.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
"If in my say 80 years on earth I do more help than damage, then I feel complete."
"I feel grateful every day I wake up, I know I’m already on borrowed time"
-Snailsrus aka Lauren Kelly RIP
07-03-2021, 05:24 PM
-
#49
- pantiespending
- Banned
-
- pantiespending
- Banned
- Join Date: Nov 2014
- Posts: 16,616
- Rep Power: 0
-
-
Originally Posted By headturner1⏩
LOL at the dems and their pissing all over the us constitution that’s congress for you... and BidenBecause of goddamn hippies bro.
That **** pisses me off, a lot of these dudes were drafted, not like they wanted to go.
That **** pisses me off, a lot of these dudes were drafted, not like they wanted to go.
Anyways? Yeah is like that we still in this bitch bro from the dod... he was trying tj fucjibg do a speech about his job in the defense department? And all these annoying entitled lib tard students wouldn’t even let him speak. They just kept yelling about some bs social justice topic he’d had zero involvement in at all. Then he just dropped the mic and walked off stage.
Lol at the things our government allows public universities to permit on their campus...
https://youtu.be/18mrVLf3DrQ
07-03-2021, 05:29 PM
-
#50
- latverian41
- Registered User
-
- latverian41
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2016
- Age: 51
- Posts: 28,227
- Rep Power: 123665
-
-
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
many after the bombing of pearl harbor were lined up the next dayl they didnt have to be drafted even though there was a draft. my grandfather and his friends signed up right away. he manned a .22 mm anti aircraft gun shooting down kamikazees in the pacsfic aboard the the destroyer uss john w weeks 1701.In WW2 at least you know you were fighting for your country and a good cause. If the US doesn't win in the Pacific... Japan is coming for America. That's a worthwhile cause.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
but if you have to think if the mentality the public had in vietnam in regards to draft dodging happened during world war 2 we could be saluting a japanese and or german flag right now.
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
07-03-2021, 05:30 PM
-
#51
Originally Posted By latverian41⏩
I can't dispute the claim about the amount of combat seen by the average GI in Vietnam vs in either theater of WWII, so that's hard to say. As for losing morale, I think the soliders themselves realized how futile their efforts were. In the documentary,The Vietnam War, by Ken Burns, they interview a guy (a CO, I believe) who was fought on Hamburger Hill, and he said something to the effect of them having fought to capture this hill, and having lost tons of troops in the process, only to be flown off the hill immediately after capturing it. There was no discernible end goal to that war.the pacific theater with japan ..your argument holds water, but the entire war for the U.S was what 3/4 years? .
the first fatality not causality in vietnam was what before president kennedy was murdred when we just had advisors? 62/63 till 74
1970+ maybe 71 when the troops started losing moral (which in part was due to their own countrymen rooted against them) they started to deny orders that they knew had a less than 50/50 chance of survivial. the vietnam war was the most dangerous time to be an officer and is historicall fact had the most non comishend murdering officers and denying orders.
but even in the pacfiic theater the time a soldier or marine seen in battle paled in comparison to those in vietnam. that does not take away from them or make them any less honorable it is just a fact.
i dont speak from bias either cause my family history has been traced back to the civil war, ,world war 1, world war 2, vietnam.
of course we both are speaking from books and it should probably be left to those who were there to debate.
the first fatality not causality in vietnam was what before president kennedy was murdred when we just had advisors? 62/63 till 74
1970+ maybe 71 when the troops started losing moral (which in part was due to their own countrymen rooted against them) they started to deny orders that they knew had a less than 50/50 chance of survivial. the vietnam war was the most dangerous time to be an officer and is historicall fact had the most non comishend murdering officers and denying orders.
but even in the pacfiic theater the time a soldier or marine seen in battle paled in comparison to those in vietnam. that does not take away from them or make them any less honorable it is just a fact.
i dont speak from bias either cause my family history has been traced back to the civil war, ,world war 1, world war 2, vietnam.
of course we both are speaking from books and it should probably be left to those who were there to debate.
I will definitely agree with your last point about it probably being best to leave it to those who were actually there.
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
I definitely think that once the troops realized how futile the war was that it negatively impacted their morale. As Latverian said, the instances of "fragging", or killing COs, skyrocketed toward the end of the war when soldiers felt they were being sent on suicide missions that served no purpose. I can definitely see how that leads to hopelessness/deteriorates morale. In Ken Burns' documentary, one of the guys that's interviewed does say somethign to the effect of the draft having a detrimental effect on the discipline of the military since none of the draftees wanted to be there, unlike their volunteer counterparts earlier in the war. I think it's interesting to note, however, that only like 1/3 of the people who served were actually drafted. Most volunteered.In WW2 at least you know you were fighting for your country and a good cause. If the US doesn't win in the Pacific... Japan is coming for America. That's a worthwhile cause.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
07-03-2021, 05:30 PM
-
#52
- latverian41
- Registered User
-
- latverian41
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2016
- Age: 51
- Posts: 28,227
- Rep Power: 123665
-
-
Originally Posted By LordBroly⏩
agreed!I can't dispute the claim about the amount of combat seen by the average GI in Vietnam vs in either theater of WWII, so that's hard to say. As for losing morale, I think the soliders themselves realized how futile their efforts were. In the documentary,The Vietnam Warby Ken Burns, they interview a guy (a CO, I believe) who was fought on Hamburger Hill, and he said something to the effect of them having fought to capture this hill, and having lost tons of troops in the process, only to be flown off the hill immediately after capturing it. There was no discernible end goal to that war.
I will definitely agree with your last point about it probably being best to leave it to those who were actually there.
I definitely think that once the troops realized how futile the war was that it negatively impacted their morale. As Latverian said, the instances of "fragging", or killing COs, skyrocketed toward the end of the war when soldiers felt they were being sent on suicide missions that served no purpose. I can definitely see how that leads to hopelessness/deteriorates morale. In Ken Burns' documentary, one of the guys that's interviewed does say somethign to the effect of the draft having a detrimental effect on the discipline of the army, since none of the draftees wanted to be there, unlike their volunteer counterparts earlier in the war. I think it's interesting to note, however, that only like 1/3 of the people who served were actually drafted. Most volunteered.
I will definitely agree with your last point about it probably being best to leave it to those who were actually there.
I definitely think that once the troops realized how futile the war was that it negatively impacted their morale. As Latverian said, the instances of "fragging", or killing COs, skyrocketed toward the end of the war when soldiers felt they were being sent on suicide missions that served no purpose. I can definitely see how that leads to hopelessness/deteriorates morale. In Ken Burns' documentary, one of the guys that's interviewed does say somethign to the effect of the draft having a detrimental effect on the discipline of the army, since none of the draftees wanted to be there, unlike their volunteer counterparts earlier in the war. I think it's interesting to note, however, that only like 1/3 of the people who served were actually drafted. Most volunteered.
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
07-03-2021, 05:33 PM
-
#53
- Motiviert
- Somebody's husband
-
- Motiviert
- Somebody's husband
- Join Date: Aug 2014
- Posts: 22,126
- Rep Power: 241108
-
-
Because 90% of liberals are walking garbage
I know who I am. And after all these years, there’s a victory in that.
All liberals deserve death
*Proud member of the misc 767 & USA vs. Germany world cup ban
-People who say money can't buy happiness, have never paid the adoption fee at the pound and went home with a new best friend
*There's no such thing as a bad dog, only a bad dog owner
If you see myself and swoleyo in a thread, remind me to rep him.
07-03-2021, 05:38 PM
-
#54
- latverian41
- Registered User
-
- latverian41
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2016
- Age: 51
- Posts: 28,227
- Rep Power: 123665
-
-
Originally Posted By AgRyan⏩
vietnam should have never happened. president eisnhower told president kennedy when he left office not to get involved in vietnam and President kenendy followed that great mans advice. he had signed the order to have all troops and advisors returned from vietnam by the end of 1964. within 24 hrs of president kennedys assignation President Johnson rescinded those orders and did a complete 180. within 24 hrs. no advisement from the chief of staff , no meetings, . 24 hrs.In WW2 at least you know you were fighting for your country and a good cause. If the US doesn't win in the Pacific... Japan is coming for America. That's a worthwhile cause.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
Most people in Vietnam weren't under the illusion that if we lost anything bad was going to happen to America. You have to imagine that, combined with the draft, hippies, media, etc, influenced battle fatigue.
i think that tells a lot.
of course everything happens for a reason if there was no vietnam war i would have never been born.. my father pointed that out to me one new years eve in 92 when in my youth and ignorance said history was stupid and did not matter.
i think god has a reason for everything even if we do not understand what he is doing it has purpose. 'faith" is the key word that unites all religions
both my grandfathers served in world war 2. when my father was drafted into vietnam, in 1966 my grandfather got him a new emerald green mustang and had it in the garage and told him to make sure he came home and this would be waiting for him. he made it home. and he did that on a coal miners pay
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
07-03-2021, 05:59 PM
-
#55
- TheGattingBall
- Registered User
-
- TheGattingBall
- Registered User
- Join Date: Nov 2014
- Location: Australia
- Age: 35
- Posts: 3,235
- Rep Power: 6537
-
-
Because they fought against communism. The media had already been infected at this point
07-03-2021, 06:05 PM
-
#56
- latverian41
- Registered User
-
- latverian41
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2016
- Age: 51
- Posts: 28,227
- Rep Power: 123665
-
-
Originally Posted By TheGattingBall⏩
watch this if you like history. i find tings to be admired in both these men, i find things to detest in both these men. as is the case with almost anyone. but i am a fan of both. if you watch and have an interest in this topic i promise you will enjoy itBecause they fought against communism. The media had already been infected at this point
"it takes a wise man to know when he is in error and a noble man to admit to it"
07-03-2021, 06:19 PM
-
#57
- pantiespending
- Banned
-
- pantiespending
- Banned
- Join Date: Nov 2014
- Posts: 16,616
- Rep Power: 0
-
-
Originally Posted By TheGattingBall⏩
Ball can confirm. Is over for me already it’s over for me because I already have a marriage therapist already it’s over for meBecause they fought against communism. The media had already been infected at this point
07-03-2021, 06:23 PM
-
#58
- jiujitsubro
- Registered User
-
- jiujitsubro
- Registered User
- Join Date: Oct 2014
- Age: 35
- Posts: 10,842
- Rep Power: 47653
-
-
Originally Posted By BeanGainClovis⏩
I want to believe these but as a guy who inherited 23 oil and gas deeds, mineral rights/royalties. I don't think this is as true anymore. Times have changed and they've created alternatives for instances like this.Rich people started the war in order to secure offshore oil fields in the region. Used ideology as an excuse.
Normal working people were used to fight the wars, just like how it always goes.
Not only do they die for the interests of the wealthy, but they take the blame for their decisions.
Anti-war hippies too blind to see how it works, some of them actually supported the Viet Cong for Marxist reasons.
It was actually a proxy war with China, just like Korea, hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops fought against Americans. Both China and USA used Vietnam as proxy to secure their oil interests in the region.
Oil is everything, it is the essential fuel for building and sustaining a modern society. It is absolutely necessary in abundance to build, deploy, and maintain a modern military. On top of that, it is the most valuable and traded commodity on planet Earth.
Normal working people were used to fight the wars, just like how it always goes.
Not only do they die for the interests of the wealthy, but they take the blame for their decisions.
Anti-war hippies too blind to see how it works, some of them actually supported the Viet Cong for Marxist reasons.
It was actually a proxy war with China, just like Korea, hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops fought against Americans. Both China and USA used Vietnam as proxy to secure their oil interests in the region.
Oil is everything, it is the essential fuel for building and sustaining a modern society. It is absolutely necessary in abundance to build, deploy, and maintain a modern military. On top of that, it is the most valuable and traded commodity on planet Earth.
"There are some who do not fear death for they are more afraid of really living."-Ancient proverb
Between the buried and me
07-03-2021, 06:25 PM
-
#59
- BrosefMengele
- Banned
-
- BrosefMengele
- Banned
- Join Date: Dec 2010
- Location: In a dream, Antarctica
- Posts: 29,085
- Rep Power: 0
-
-
Originally Posted By pantiespending⏩
Shut up you deranged maniacBall can confirm. Is over for me already it’s over for me because I already have a marriage therapist already it’s over for me
Bookmarks
-
- Digg
-
- del.icio.us
-
- StumbleUpon
-
-
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts