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ITT i will prove through Biblical sources that Jesus did NOT die on the cross (SRS)
04-04-2023, 02:24 PM
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#31
04-04-2023, 02:27 PM
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#32
- fox994
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- fox994
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This will be pretty high level but this isn't a great place for this.
1.) He also prophesied that he would lay down his life because only he had the power to take it up again, as well as stating that he would die and be resurrected Mark 8:31 for example. You're misusing the "sign of the Jonah" his being in the whale 3 days and appearing to those he was to preach to is typology, the sign is of the same type. Being in the whale is a type of death, Christ died and was in the belly of the earth 3 days then returned alive.
2.) He was "scourged" before hand, also the presence of water & blood coming out is proof that he was already dead. Water wouldn't have been present had he been alive.
3.) Think you got your verse wrong here matt 21:22 wouldn't make sense here. In the end though he was saved from Death, hence the resurrection.
4.) He did feel sympathy for Christ but the Jews had him pretty well cornered politically "And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King." defending him would have made Pilot an enemy of the Emperor. Christ also did not deny anything or defend himself. We see him declare Christ's blood to not be on his hands and the Jews accept this as well.
5.) Aloe is also used in embalming
6.) The human nature from Adam had been cursed as was all mankind, until the accomplishment of the resurrection all men were bound by death being cut off from Life(which is God, our source of life).
7.) He bore the wounds of his passion demonstrating that it was in-fact him and that he accomplished his feat with a human body. The gospels clearly show that despite this his body was also not bound all the same physical rule as ours.
8.) After 3 days they healed so well he could walk and talk with his disciples? Who couldn't recognize him as their teach or a man recently tortured? Also "And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight."
9.) He was always God, he did not come to establish a temporary earthly kingdom. Just like how God humbled himself to become man and walk among us as a servant he also sends his servants into the world, not in glory but in faith.
10.) Not sure how this fits with the theme here. But yes until after the resurrection the Jews were the people of God and he came to them since they were his chosen people, in rejecting Christ they also reject their inheritance but that's a different discussion.
11.) Yes the Centurion confirms he was dead already. also immediately after Christ died he says "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.", "was" being the important word here since he did not know Christ would rise he views him as having come to an end, death.
12.) It is in Acts which is recorded by saint Luke, it is also attested to by the church fathers unanimously.
TLDR: OP your arguments aren't great or thorough for supporting your claim.
1.) He also prophesied that he would lay down his life because only he had the power to take it up again, as well as stating that he would die and be resurrected Mark 8:31 for example. You're misusing the "sign of the Jonah" his being in the whale 3 days and appearing to those he was to preach to is typology, the sign is of the same type. Being in the whale is a type of death, Christ died and was in the belly of the earth 3 days then returned alive.
2.) He was "scourged" before hand, also the presence of water & blood coming out is proof that he was already dead. Water wouldn't have been present had he been alive.
3.) Think you got your verse wrong here matt 21:22 wouldn't make sense here. In the end though he was saved from Death, hence the resurrection.
4.) He did feel sympathy for Christ but the Jews had him pretty well cornered politically "And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King." defending him would have made Pilot an enemy of the Emperor. Christ also did not deny anything or defend himself. We see him declare Christ's blood to not be on his hands and the Jews accept this as well.
5.) Aloe is also used in embalming
6.) The human nature from Adam had been cursed as was all mankind, until the accomplishment of the resurrection all men were bound by death being cut off from Life(which is God, our source of life).
7.) He bore the wounds of his passion demonstrating that it was in-fact him and that he accomplished his feat with a human body. The gospels clearly show that despite this his body was also not bound all the same physical rule as ours.
8.) After 3 days they healed so well he could walk and talk with his disciples? Who couldn't recognize him as their teach or a man recently tortured? Also "And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight."
9.) He was always God, he did not come to establish a temporary earthly kingdom. Just like how God humbled himself to become man and walk among us as a servant he also sends his servants into the world, not in glory but in faith.
10.) Not sure how this fits with the theme here. But yes until after the resurrection the Jews were the people of God and he came to them since they were his chosen people, in rejecting Christ they also reject their inheritance but that's a different discussion.
11.) Yes the Centurion confirms he was dead already. also immediately after Christ died he says "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.", "was" being the important word here since he did not know Christ would rise he views him as having come to an end, death.
12.) It is in Acts which is recorded by saint Luke, it is also attested to by the church fathers unanimously.
TLDR: OP your arguments aren't great or thorough for supporting your claim.
IC XC NIKA
Eastern Orthodox Crew
04-04-2023, 02:44 PM
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#33
- CroForce
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- CroForce
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Every Gospel literally talks about Christ's death and resurrection.
Phillipians 2:5-11
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God,[a] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself,[b] taking the form of a servant,[c] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phillipians 2:5-11
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God,[a] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself,[b] taking the form of a servant,[c] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
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RIP Zyzz
04-04-2023, 02:48 PM
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#34
- davik
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- davik
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Originally Posted By bhicks3712⏩
no the point is there are non biblicals saying that he was crucified. this clown op, doesnt realize how dumb he is talking about this subjectThen rose 3 days after. Jesus died on the cross went to the depths of the earth and brought back condemned souls that believed. Hallelujah Christ is king. Do not let anyone tell you other wise. There is only one holy book and it is the Holy Bible. King James Version. Anyone who points you to a different religion is truly the antichrist. Jesus is the only way and there is no other book for teaching and this is straight up Godlyness fuk off to the haters they will die in their own sin
04-19-2023, 12:37 PM
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#35
- MotorCityCobra
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Originally Posted By davik⏩
Jesus was placed on the cross for only a few hours. Death by crucifixion usually takes several days. While he was on the cross his legs were left intact, and not broken as was the normal procedure. This would have prevented death by respiratory distress. As blood and water were reported to have 'gushed' from the spear wound, this was sign of a beating heart..no the point is there are non biblicals saying that he was crucified. this clown op, doesnt realize how dumb he is talking about this subject
04-19-2023, 12:44 PM
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#36
- miscerForLulz
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Originally Posted By CroForce⏩
You know you have many different accounts as to what happened...can think of 3 of the top of my head.Every Gospel literally talks about Christ's death and resurrection.
Gnostics said it was not actually Jesus being crucified but only a substitute
Basilidians saying it was Simon of Cyrene that was crucified and that Jesus exchanged forms with him
Gospel of Barnabas states it was Judas Iscariot who was made to resemble Jesus's face as a betrayer and that Jesus himself was ascended into heaven
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
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