Anither delusional roider who thinks if he was truly natty he wouldnt look like pure ****.

Oh well ill let you live in your delusion

See post 24. Those are pics of me still holding my lifetime natty card. Feel free to critique. I have many times openly shared the experience of turning in my nattie status.

If I had not suffered the TBI, I would still be natty. TRT is something medically necessary for me. Without it, I had test levels BELOW the bottom of the scale and I suffered very real side effects of that. It gave me my life back.

Here is a vid of me from over 10 years ago And 315x10 with my then young son photo bombingworking out home alone with no spot. Yea.... without AAS I would be nothing

You are no different than the people who just wine and b!tch because they know nothing of what hard work and dedication can do for you.

Didnt read.

Delusional oldcel would look like a old fart without roids.

I'm pretty sure I recall seeing him attribute it primarily to intermittent fasting.

Diet?

Routine?

Supplements?

How hard of a time keeping your aviation medical do you have while on gear?

I would hop on dat dere but afraid of losing my medical.

I have adopted IF for the past 5 years, but learned how to get lean many years ago. IF for me now works fantastic. BUT I would not recommend it to anyone who still has progress that they can make strength or mass wise. I am not getting any bigger of any stronger these days. Just IF works great for being more 'relaxed' about my intake and still holding decent composition.

I have been lean now continually almost 8 years (never really going more than 8-10lbs off my summer weight). Getting AND staying lean does change your look over a period of years. Parts of your body, legs especially look pretty nuts since fat does not go back there sub-q and you get very 'peeled' looking even without a lean midsection.


Here are natty vs not pics. About 7 years separate these pics. Over those years I added about 8lbs lean mass. Something I DONT think would have been possible if I had stayed natural. I can say 100% I could not hold much mass over 190 under 10%bf. These days, I can hold about 10more lbs.

Lifetime natty and 3 years back into training.





Non nattie. TRT with a few small bumps in there. Nothing that I could see or witness over a small period of time like 3 months, but when you look over a 7 year window, you can see the difference and of course you can see 7-10lbs on a scale easily.






Last pics is me before traning at 18 and 137lbs and me at 21 at 190 ( 3 years of training still a baby!)vs me at my peak at 46 203 in that pic.
When I first started traininng I put on almost 50lbs naturally in 3 years and still have the zipper stretch marks up and down my body.

That’s what I hope to look like at 50 srs. Will get on the tee arr tee if necessary.

If you say it enough times, you can convince yourself that it’s true

This is the roidcel dictionary:




“I’m all natty” - 600mg test, some anavar


“I’m only on TRT” - 750 test, deca and EQ

“I did a short test only cycle for a few weeks” - blasted a gram of test and Tren and dbol






In any case, all of the above is irrelevant. All you really need for 20inch arms is hard work, discipline, GRINDING and consistency.

this srs

thats top 1% physique for men in 50's

gjdm

Mirin dude!
People told him he couldn’t go to the gym

lmao at misc haters too afraid to quote that beast mode video of 315x10 at age 40. Dude benches more than your max for reps. Many can’t even squat or dead that weight and are still talking. All while being weaker, balder, and poorer.

OP is always inspirational.

Beast

Thanks man. Hard not to get a little sentimental. I look back fondly on when I found my way back to the gym. I was SO motivated. Almost getting killed and being given a 2nd chance at life will do that for you. I look back and amazed at the strength I had, even early on in training.

I know I am pretty luck to have been blessed with a good training response. Part of me would LOVE to recapture the feeling and excitement when there is still progress left to be made. But life changes as does ones goals.

Up till just over 5 years ago, I was still making progress on strength. But I was rear ended in a car crash. Fractured spine and 3 displaced disks. I have never been able to recover (although I still try). Just cant lift like I used to. When my back goes out, it is crippling. So last 5+ years, I just stay 'in shape'. About all I can do is control how I look. Cant really squat or deadlift. Although I try light ones now and again. I mostly bench reverse grip these days but heaviest I go is generally 275. I throw 315 on and will rep 4-5 reverse grip to at least make myself not feel like I have lost everything.

But life changes. Been helping my son train a little, but I dont push him. He just turned 16 and letting him discover it on his own. He is thin like I was. 7 months ago, he could not do a pull up, now is strapping on a 45lb plate and repping 15. But again, I want my kids to follow THEIR dreams so I dont push him at all.


I like being able to share experiences having been on several sides. Before when I was a life time natty, I had MANY misconceptions of what AAS was and was not. I was a lot like many here and really thought that was 'cheating' or it somehow made it 'easy'. I took so much pride in my nattie status that I under-valued and disrespected the work that really goes into building and maintaining a physique over many years.

Some simple truths about AAS that I believe.

Most people within their first 2-3 years of training are doing themselves a disservice by trying them LONG before they have peaked. Much of what they might jump ahead on progress, they will NEVER hold on to since they never learn to eat and train to hold mass naturally.

The people jumping on in first 1-2 years are just morons....sorry. SO much natural potential for growth in first few years. No reason for AAS unless you only want to see results for 6 months and then watch it all go away.

If you wait until 5-7 years into your training (doing REAL training) you will be disappointed. Just like anything else, your relative state of training will determine your returns. A untrained guy gaining 20lbs is not all that uncommon. But a guy with 5-7 years would be happy to see 2-3 lbs over 12 weeks of REAL mass. In the same ways that returns diminish with anything, coming at supplements with a high degree of development just means there is less there on tap to grow.

I cant speak to much in the way of 'advanced' supplementation. It was just never for me. I dont know if I could have gotten 'big'. Like many things, genetic response to anything is the biggest determination.

What I can tell you, is guys in this for the long term cant hold mass if they abuse stuff. If you rely on external supps to build your foundation, it will surly fall apart and you just cant sustain that for 10-20 years. Young guys live like there is no tomorrow. But I have to laugh at all these 'know it alls' being so sure of themselves that I would have to take everything in the kitchen sink to look the way I do at 50.

Show up for 25 years. Dedicate yourself to something and see what is possible. I dont really drink, I have dedicated over a decade to getting proper sleep (I sleep a min 8-10 hours a night) If I dont get that, I cant and wont push hard in the gym. This is just not something that happens by accident. You end up reflecting the lifestyle you choose.

MANY with MUCH better genes than I have, but I am definitely lucky being better than avg. Strength, I am blessed with being in a very small percentile of people, I dont mind admitting that. I took a decade off the gym and still benched 300lbs first day back and squatted 405.


EVERYONE fights the same battles, and I have only in my lifetime seen a few FREAKS who this is truly no work at all for. (and we all hate them) For the rest of us, you got to show up! EVERY day. No excuses. Consistency and time can do some amazing things.

The amount of hate towards anyone that actually lifts on this forum is so cute. (Super Ded fkn Srs)

based IF is based

Nice one mate. Mirin the mindset. I hope to have a physique as impressive as yours when I get to your age. Sometimes I think it’s not gonna be possible, given that I’ve been having a shoulder injury keeping me out of the gym for the past 5 months only at 20 years old (fkn lmao).

But then again, I was very stupid when I started off and pushed myself way too hard, which is what caused me to be in this predicament. So I can’t really blame anyone else other than me. Only step from here is to heal up, be smarter with my training, get a PT maybe to check on my form.

So life is one big 'work around'. In 07 I was told I needed rotator cuff surgery. It was a lingering issue since my 20's. I had an mri done and I have a partially torn labrum as well as something else...cant even remember what the issues were. At the time, I had not been training for quite a while. My shoulder had gotten so bad, that I could not even lift my infant son into a car seat. My wife had to lift him in and out of the car as my shoulder was shot. I could not grab a gallon of milk out of the fridge or raise my arm out in front of me.

They were ready to schedule surgery and I have a buddy who is a chiro who told me to give him a shot. He did a bunch of soft tissue work on me (very painful). He also gave me exercises to do to strengthen and try to re-align my shoulder. Lots of stretching and rehab and it got a little better. I put off the surgery.

Then a few years later when I started training again, I went to see him. Again he worked the scar tissue built up and gave me stretches to do. I started back benching very slow. I re learned to bench (tucked elbows) and I was amazed that over time with all the work, no pain. My shoulder was still f'd up. I cant do hang cleans as an example, nor can I throw a frisbee. But I got my shoulder strong enough to eventually bench a 420 raw paused bench with NO pain.

I still have the f'd up shoulder. Hurts more now than when I used to be able to train heavy. Deads were great for keeping the shoulder area stretched out. Now I do stretches almost every workout. No real daily pain. I know my limits. I still dont do front raises or hang cleans, but I use very careful form on anything shoulder related.

Would have NEVER believed I would even bench 315 let along go on to hit the numbers I did in my 40s'. Old man strength and the maturity that it comes with is very real. I think a lot is CNS improvements in efficiency and coordination. But my strength peaked in my early 40's.

Anyway, dont let injuries stop you. I have had quite a few. Broken neck, fractured spine, disk insures, several torn muscles (all outside the gym in time since I came back to training). You can make excuses or you can figure out a way to do what you can. If you try, you will be amazed.

Diet

routine

supplements

mirin

Ultimate misc mogger

So I will TRY to not write a book, but you could write many on this topic.

What I do currently is pointless for most. I can do almost anything and 'maintain'. My only diet requirements are 'maintaining' energy balance.

Supps, that is the 1%, the sprinkles on top of the sundae...NOT the sundae itself. (I dont consider whey protein a 'supplement')


I trained most of my life naturally so I dont know much of otherwise. Even after turning in my natty card, I still trained as I had for many years. 90% of what you read in bodybuilding circles is total BS. I always took inspiration from golden era bodybuilders. Guys from the 40's 50's and 60's. Back before drugs dominated the sport. Strength and the building of it was always a foundation of any program.

Training happens in stages.

Years 1-2. You can do about anything, you can eat about anything and progress will be had. INCREDIBLE progress at that. But will be different for everyone. At this point however your CNS still has MILES to go. Pretty much show up for the gym, party on weekends...whatever...have fun, enjoy life and things will happen at an incredible rate. If you really want to dedicate yourself, start at my advice for guys in years 3-5. But if your young...enjoy life. Lots of time to grind later

Years 3-5. At this point, diet and intake start to have a MUCH larger impact upon progress. So many guys make great progress first couple years and then look the same from then out. (or they turn to AAS because they dont like that their gains slow).
This is the point where intake becomes CRITICAL. I FIRMLY believe in bulk/cut. But NOT sloppy bulk. I have gained and lost 100's of lbs over the years when progress was still there to be had. It is the HARDEST thing ever to eat in a sustained planned surplus. Year 3-4-5, you can still use 500 cal range. Large enough a surplus that you dont risk not hitting a surplus each day. Tracking is filled with errors. At this stage there is still a lot of leeway.

These years focus on STRENGTH in large compound exercises. Eat a surplus for 12-14 weeks. During that time do a periodized program based on adding weight to the bar EVERY time. I always loved 5/3/1. You might not feel like you are killing yourself in the gym, but follow the program. Throw in a few isolation exercises at the end to round out, but isolation work is not going to add density and thickness that comes from HEAVY training.

AFTER the 12-16 weeks of watching the scale go up 30-40 lbs, now the important part. Eat a 750cal deficit for 12 weeks. Lighten training load, but get your HEAVY sets in and FIGHT for every bit of strength you can hold on to. At 4-6 weeks into cut my strength would ALWAYS fall off. Accept it and GRIND. Bench would lose the most. Close to 10%. Squats were around 4-5% and deads I would only lose 3% range. The strength loss is TOTALY temp. It is just glycogen depletion and your strength will come right back to pre cut levels after 2 weeks of resuming normal carbs.

Rinse and repeat....over and over and over. It is a fukin grind of a life. My wife hated watching me eat. Sitting at the table, looking like I was going to throw up, trying to get food in. So many people say it is 'easy' to eat a surplus. But doing it EVERY day, even a small one, your body's systems kick in and tell you to STOP eating. It is really HARD! Utilize shakes to get a good bit of cals 1st meal. I used ground oatmeal, whole milk, peanut butter and whey to start the day off with 1000+ cals. (my bulk was usually in the 3500-3600 cal/day range)

Years 5+. This is what really separates those who succeed from those that quit. Pretty much, if you want (natural) progress from here, you have to 100% dedicate yourself to the task. The margins of fat loss and gain, vs strength loss become a razor edge of intake. No real room for alcohol. Maybe now and again socially, but forget about drinking on a regular basis. Sleep HAS to take a priority. When I wanted progress and was in a strength portion of my program, I would try for MIN 9-10 hours sleep. Yep. I monitored pretty much everything. Rising body temp, skinfold thickness, waist dia, strength across all exercises, I kept track of volume. This is where most people wont do what it take to still make progress. It becomes VERY hard.

At this point diet and intake has to be pulled in tighter. My surpluses went to 250 cal. That is about the most you cant with certainty, but it meant that I was preparing ALL my meals. I can tell you that 2oz of dry pasta has a cooked weight 4.25 oz. I can tell you a serving of rice cooked is 144g. I can say that chicken cooked to 160deg is .78 of it's uncooked weight. Notice nothing about this has to do with reps and sets. DIET and INTAKE will be what determine if you progress.

I am 100% IIFYM. I dont believe in "clean" eating. Even when cutting I still left room for pizza and icecream..etc. But by all means try to get good quality food.



So in writing this, I realize that most on here will not do the things I have done. They will be like most guys in the gym. Look a little buff, and then complain they cant make progress. Just a small sample of the 'work' put in over the decades of fighting for gainz... here are a few spreadsheets where I was experimenting with diet/intake, cals and strength. Scans of old stick notes representing years of my life trying different calorie intake levels, macro rations. Carb cycling, fat cycling...you name it.

So that is my LONG answer and I could expand even more. Base on where you are in your training, nutrition, QUANITY and QUALITY with have a larger and larger impact on your progress. As you go on, 100% have to eat for your goals.

To be fair op has been open about his usage, don't get the hate in this circumstance.

OJ is one thing, exactly how many filters did you go through before deciding this was the right one?

Too funny. No filter. I did zoom in on it. Pic is taken about 30' away.

What you dont get is the pic is really not about me. I was just trying to share a moment. Mondays are tough sometimes even for me. I was sitting on the bench flipping through my spotify between sets and I looked over and snapped a pic. It looked cool to me. Kinda captured one of those moments. All alone....wondering just what it is that brings me to still be doing this. It is kind of strange really.

Alone in a gym on a monday. No one pushing you on. No one to answer to. I could have just listened to some music and no one would know any different. Instead, I went on to have a great workout. Even threw a little more weight on bench than I normally would as my shoulder felt good! I have been doing this a long time and wanted to just share that moment.



If I were looking to make this about me....then I would have posted a pic like the one below from the other day. But that is not the story I was looking to share. Truth is, I am feeling down and disappointed about where I am. I am not very happy with myself. I am about a month behind and no way I will be in the shape I wanted to be for my summer of 50. Turning 50 was a bid deal for me. I lacked the discipline I should have had to see though something I wanted. Kind of disappointed in myself. That pic does not say that. That pic looks like someone confident in what they are doing. That pic is not accurate of the way I feel.

This is a tough game over the long haul. It does not matter what anyone says or what anyone thinks you look like. At the end of the day you have to hold YOURSELF accountable. Judging myself by how others look, especially my age is pointless. I have my own standards. My own goals. No one get me in the gym for decades other than my own personal drive to do so. If you are not the hardest person on yourself, you will fail in short order.

This is something you might not understand. One of the cool things about getting some gray hairs, is you can pass on some perspective. I like to think I can share a little. Maybe give some perspective. There are probably only a very few here that will still be training in 25 years. I hope I am still doing it!

@tears, you have been here since 2009. That is impressive. I admire that! Have you lifted continually during that time? What are your current workouts like?. What are your goals? What is your current condition? Feel free to share. Post some pics. I am serious. Always love to see a guy who has been at this a while! Instead of just busting balls, share some motivation with others! Not enough lifting talk around here. Guys that train, feel free to share. This place gave me so much motivation and knowledge years ago. It still can be that way

Me too, man. I am my own worst critic and haven't been able to get my peak shape back after a few surgeries, work schedule, etc..I have been coming to terms with good enough. Now, when I factor my age in, it really helps. There is no comparison to my peers. I can hold my own against the teenagers and 20s at the gym. I guess that's good enough.

Speaking of which, my legs are toast. I was able to ramp up my training yesterday after a small set back and now my lower body has major DOMs.

Lmaooo idk how I missed another "I need attention" thread from induced drag

Looks like everything is par for the course here, carry on

Did you break ground on that new house you designed yet?

TX, I think that is a commonality I have seen in people who do this for the long haul. We all are our own largest critics. If we were ever happy, it would probably mean we would let up. That was the case when I was training for strength. Each milestone, some taking YEARS to work towards, become meaningless after you break them.

Legs are tough for me. I have not squatted regularly in the past 5 years. I have tried many times, and I just dont think my lower back can take any longer. I will still try again, but I have resolved myself to the fact I will never push heavy weight again. All I do is leg press and extensions. Pathetic to say I have not even done any direct hammie work in 3-4 years.Funny you mention that. I was just talking about that with my wife about an hour ago. I took her out to lunch today. We were talking big picture 'life' direction ideas. In the end, she said she is really happy where we are and did not want to move. Today I brought up the idea that I would still like to keep that door open.

I struggle trying to figure out what direction to go in this current economy. I have carried more stress than I have in MANY years about not knowing what direction to go. I am normally a fairly decisive guy and make a decision and then work towards those goals. I hate to feel like we are just 'living' without a larger plan. But that is kind of where we are at. I have been distracting myself with cars, which keeps me occupied.

In the end, I will always differ to what my wife wants. She does not ask for many things and pretty much always tell me to do whatever I would like. When she expresses an opinion, I know it is important to her and that is good enough for me. Time will tell. We still have a couple years left with my son in high school.