Sill, pharma companies have settled suits and withdrawn products in the past.

I would say never, although ymmv.

My position is only this: You know how you or some people, one of their biggest seeming complaints about Trump is not even him - but his MAGA supporters? I kind of have that stance with these vaccines. I am not one of the people demanding they are poison or part of some plot to depopulate the human race, etc...

Here is what I think and you are free to debate me on any of these points, but I doubt you will:

Part of science is free and open dialogue/discussion with all perspective sides being heard out and accepting that the notion(s) we have will evolve over time. Few things in science are set in stone, especially when it comes to "warp speeded" experimental treatments where the creator(s) demanded (and received) full legal immunity over their distribution.

These same pharmaceutical companies have knowingly sold products with poison to toddlers, been sued for billions, manipulated scientific studies to report things they knew were 100% false and such -- and they bought massive advertisement throughout news media to coerce them to report a one-sided fake narrative throughout the pandemic.

Do you disagree with any of that? If so, let's hear it.

With that in mind, what does this mean? Is this proof the vaccines are deadly? That it's a plot to kill off 90% of the planet? Those pesky Joos again?

For me,No - not at all. Those are assumptions I do not have and do not make. I am simply overcorrecting for the environment they made, one where someone like you (not unreasonable but a hothead) sees any kind of pushback or questioning of the vaccines and do things like you did -- which is waggle your finger at me and call me "anti-science" and get all aghast at how horrific and terrible I am for just beingskepticalof them.

Can I be over-zealous, as in when I jumped and made this thread? Where I saw the byline and entertained a conclusion that turns out really was not there?

Sure, I am human.

In my defense:
- Even before BB.com could register me editing the post, I had done so to fully report that Snoop's kid had a near lifelong diagnosis with Lupus.
- I took the time to actually vett this by doing so -- just in the wrong order (I should have done it before making the thread and not after)
- I didn't delete the thread in shame, I left it up because I am fine with making or admitting a mistake. I just corrected it quickly.

I will remain skeptical of these poorly tested leaky vaccines. I'll do that because I can now say they are poorly tested and leaky and people pretty much must admit that it is the truth -- but a few years back that same statement would have 1) been removed on most social media, 2) could have jeopardized my employment, 3) would have been met with anger and hostility by people (like you) and such.

I'm so anti-science for you, yet my position and mindset has not changed throughout this. Folks like you have had to do a lot of mental gymnastics to justify your thinking. I don't entirely blame you - you just fell for it and I didn't.

Short and sweet from the nih research library.

Stroke is a major cause of morbidity, mortality and disability in systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE).
Patients with SLE have a two-fold increase in the risk of stroke with younger patients (ie, less than 50 years of age) having an ever-higher risk (up to 10-fold).

So if she went holistic, that 10 fold hit her hard under 50.
Autoimmune is a bitch!

Nothing like this. It's one thing when they push oxycontin on a small percentage of people suffering chronic pain. Or baby powder oopsy laced with asbestos, that they knew aboutfor decades. While that last one probably took a mountain of PR and money to quiet it down to the extent it was -- nothing ever amounts to the majority of the population being coerced to take a treatment like it was here.

It's one thing to pay off or deal with a handful or people addicted to oxycontins or even a few parents of some poor child exposed (knowingly) to toxins. It's quite another to deal with the vast majority of every adult in the country.

To pretend they are somehow the same situation is rather disingenuous.

You like to pretend someone going 61 in a 55 is the same thing as doing 120, as if, "Well it's just speeding!". Those kinds of weak parallels just fall apart and honestly are so bad, it only makes me question your motives and why you would possibly make such a bad faith argument to begin with.

She has Lupus and d/c'd her meds almost a year ago according to her, directly.

When you mention "safe and effective", to what are you referring?

Did she receive covid vaccines? When?

This info seems relevant to an open dialogue/discussion with all perspective sides being heard out.

LOL Don't ever change misc, Al Gore invented the internet specifically for threads like this.

The second I became aware she had lupus, I edited that rather pertinent information into the thread - so quickly, in fact, that bb.com does not even register I edited the post to do it (so I think even within some quick 5 minute timeframe).

Which, I've said: My mistake. Although we do live in a world with an unexplained 20% or so bump in all cause mortality, cancers (which have been getting worse over time anyway) spiking recently and also a recent rise in heart disease and strokes, in this specific case - while unusual for someone so young, the likely source of why almost certainly seems to be her having lupus.

It's probably more productive to discuss many of the other currently unexplained 'sudden death/stroke' situations, and for my part to recognize I can be overzealous in jumping to premature conclusions, but also remain open-minded and skeptical of vaccines which I pretty thoroughly explained my problems with in post #33 to our mutual friend Sillie.

The Lupus component hardly required digging. It was stated right in the article you posted.

Suggesting excess mortality is new, unstudied, and with no plausible hypotheses seems disingenuous.

I don't agree. I think it would be to insinuate it's vaccine-related or caused. Which, I don't think is the case (at least not for the majority of them). And, new it is, a massive spike in all cause mortality since covid -- one much higher than what covid would account for and one that spiked prior to vaccine rollouts.

While I'm sure there are studies, and paid-off scientists furiously looking for cold showers, smoking weed or not paying your phone bill to account for it, I didn't think anyone really knew. My own assumption/speculation, the disastrous unintended consequences of the lockdowns, which were brutal, did little good and massive harm to mental and physical health... but I didn't think anyone as of now really knew for sure.

What explains the greater number of excess deaths in the US in 2017?

Both cardiac issues and cancers in young people have been on the rise for decades. What I find curious is that nobody paid much attention until it was suggest to fear and rail against vaccination.

It's challenging to have an open dialogue/discussion with a preface suggesting all research we don't like is corrupt and fake

A slow and steady increase over time? It spiked massively in 2020 or around then.Also was rising and more recently spiked more (although not to the degree of acm).It's a good thing I never did that, then. I simply point out the truth that the system itself is flawed against truth. Fortunately, over time, the truth can prevail, but sometimes it can take decades. Such as with nobel prize winning Ancel Keyes' "7 Countries Studies" which dictated the direction of health and diet for almost 50 years.

Don’t even waste your time. Guy is a 100% confirmed legit troll. Maybe a response or two here and there, but if you’re expecting meaningful discussion you’re barking up the wrong tree. Just look at how he starts “hurr durr there was an increase before so logically that means nothing now could explain an increase in the number of excess deaths. Checkmate!” 100% sh!t for brains take that confirms he’s either too dumb to understand or he he’s just trolling…and as I mentioned we know he’s just trolling.

More in the US in 2017. Over 400kUntrue or at least unsupported.

Well no.

My point is that much of this has been concerning for decades, but the general public and new researchers didn't seem to care until pre-prints and social media led things that way.

Look at this thread and the previous.

I'm tolling because we blame suicides and strokes in lupus patients on vaccines? Really?

Maybe Paul will come in and lead us down a meandering and indecipherable path of science

Another L for covid injection takers. SMH will they ever learn?

Was she vaccinated?

Typical claus shwab/bill gates/wef apologist response!

Don't you kno that the Lupus was actually caused by the vaccines she took as a kid?

/s

Based

Probably took the Fauci fluid.

SLE is actually a rather serious medical condition. It can affect lifespan dramatically if not managed carefully.

Feel sorry for her, hope she recovers and gets back on a good medical regimen.


Not sure why black people think sea moss and duck flower and black seed oil will cure everything though