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Forum » It's 2017 do people still believe calories in = calories out?
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Thread: It's 2017 do people still believe calories in = calories out?

post 1487095141 03-13-2017, 09:30 PM
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The only reason I'm willing to say I kinda agree with OP is because I watched a documentary on a woman who ate over 33,000 caloroes a day who only gained about 1.5-2lbs a week. No that isn't a typo on either of those.

I believe the body has limiting factors on both ends. Hence a 400 lb woman even if she could live on 500 calories a say will never be a size 0. The same way Even on 4800-5300 calories a day I have weighed consistently between 150-158 LB's over the past 2 years. My dads about 125 lbs 6 feet tall. My two brothers about 6 feet tall both 125 lbs.

My grandpa prob 5'10" weighed 120 at 18. Still weighs about 120 at 91 years old. I believe there is much more complex systems at work than we give credit for.

I should be obese. Like really really obese. I don't do cardio. Yet here I am. I have a friend on my softball team who is 6'4" 260+ and is the healthiest eater I've ever ran into. You will never find him eating a fatty meal and he doesn't drink alcohol or pop.

I believe there are strong outliers on both end of the spectrum and there's more at work then what we believe.


Ps: If a competitive eater put down 20k cals a day for a week straight wouldn't they gain 30-35 lbs of pure fat by the end of the week? It's not physically possible. So I guess the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to them..... Just the rest of us.
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post 1487095421 03-13-2017, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
Ok, then since I am so clueless, explain the energy cycle as it relates to a human body and how this energy input interacts with our major hormones in our body? The laws don't take into account biological functions and hormonal functions from our endocrine system, that is why a simple heat/energy balance calculation on the human body is in my opinion too simple for the complexity of it all.
Those hormones and their creation are also subject to the law of thermodynamics.


Its been explained to you many times in this thread that composition will change. The calories needed for the building of muscle tissue or storing of fat are different. However matter/energy will NEVER Be created nor destroyed.

Cals in vs cals out remains true.

Now if you want to shape your body beyond shrinking/growing it, other factors must be considered.

Im sorry bro, you're not even smart enough to realize your dumb.
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post 1487095461 03-13-2017, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted By nosirrahx⏩
OP is what happens when you tell the stupid kids that they are just as good as the smart kids. The new gen "smart kids table" is all inclusive.
Your 41, making assumptions and judgments about someone's intelligence over the internet without contributing anything to the actual topic. I'm sorry your life didn't turn out how you envisioned it but don't insult me because of your insecurity about yourself.
post 1487095511 03-13-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted By mrc19888⏩
The only reason I'm willing to say I kinda agree with OP is because I watched a documentary on a woman who ate over 33,000 caloroes a day who only gained about 1.5-2lbs a week. No that isn't a typo on either of those.

I believe the body has limiting factors on both ends. Hence a 400 lb woman even if she could live on 500 calories a say will never be a size 0. The same way Even on 4800-5300 calories a day I have weighed consistently between 150-158 LB's over the past 2 years. My dads about 125 lbs 6 feet tall. My two brothers about 6 feet tall both 125 lbs.

My grandpa prob 5'10" weighed 120 at 18. Still weighs about 120 at 91 years old. I believe there is much more complex systems at work than we give credit for.

I should be obese. Like really really obese. I don't do cardio. Yet here I am. I have a friend on my softball team who is 6'4" 260+ and is the healthiest eater I've ever ran into. You will never find him eating a fatty meal and he doesn't drink alcohol or pop.

I believe there are strong outliers on both end of the spectrum and there's more at work then what we believe.


Ps: If a competitive eater put down 20k cals a day for a week straight wouldn't they gain 30-35 lbs of pure fat by the end of the week? It's not physically possible. So I guess the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to them..... Just the rest of us.
Lol.... and you completely ignoring solid waste?

Just because the body couldn't absorb 33k calories a day, doesn't mean it is destroyed.
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post 1487095951 03-13-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
Those hormones and their creation are also subject to the law of thermodynamics.


Its been explained to you many times in this thread that composition will change. The calories needed for the building of muscle tissue or storing of fat are different. However matter/energy will NEVER Be created nor destroyed.

Cals in vs cals out remains true.

Now if you want to shape your body beyond shrinking/growing it, other factors must be considered.

Im sorry bro, you're not even smart enough to realize your dumb.
So if I ate 1k under TDEE consisting of say brussel sprouts for 3 weeks, how would my body different composition wise if I ate 1k under TDEE for 3 weeks consisting of lucky charms? Would this then effect your muscle mass then?
post 1487095971 03-13-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted By HayZues
Lol.... and you completely ignoring solid waste?

Just because the body couldn't absorb 33k calories a day, doesn't mean it is destroyed.
Ok. So explain where that line is drawn where the body stops processing calories and turning it into fat and when it just "passes". Maybe that number for me is after I ingest 2000 calories. Then my body decides "well we have all the energy we need" then I crap the remaining 2800-3300 out. That's my point. I truly believe there is a "heaviest you can ever be" set point and "lightest you'll ever be" set point. Hell there was a handful of fat people in Auscwitz from what I remember. That's hard labor 18 hours a day on a few scoops of rice and they still stayed fat.
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post 1487096321 03-13-2017, 09:44 PM
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This is the dumbest thread I've seen in 3 weeks.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.
post 1487096341 03-13-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
So if I ate 1k under TDEE consisting of say brussel sprouts for 3 weeks, how would my body different composition wise if I ate 1k under TDEE for 3 weeks consisting of lucky charms? Would this then effect your muscle mass then?
you'd look the same after those 3 weeks eating either the brussel sprouts or lucky charms.
post 1487096361 03-13-2017, 09:44 PM
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I'm pretty sure most people know that 5000 calories of Fritos is not the same thing as 5000 calories of tuna
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post 1487096411 03-13-2017, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted By mrc19888⏩
Ok. So explain where that line is drawn where the body stops processing calories and turning it into fat and when it just "passes". Maybe that number for me is after I ingest 2000 calories. Then my body decides "well we have all the energy we need" then I crap the remaining 2800-3300 out. That's my point. I truly believe there is a "heaviest you can ever be" set point and "lightest you'll ever be" set point. Hell there was a handful of fat people in Auscwitz from what I remember. That's hard labor 18 hours a day on a few scoops of rice and they still stayed fat.
Right that is where biological factors come into play, the efficiency of your metabolism, the health of your liver, how well your thyroid functions, how insulin resistive you are. Those are just a few of the many determining factors in weight/loss gain. There are many gray areas if you just apply thermo.
post 1487096551 03-13-2017, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By HoustonMiscer⏩
I'm pretty sure most people know that 5000 calories of Fritos is not the same thing as 5000 calories of tuna
Well after reading this thread i'm not so sure, plus no one has given me a good explanation of what it will do composition wise to the body by ingesting both of those substances.
post 1487096671 03-13-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
Your 41, making assumptions and judgments about someone's intelligence over the internet without contributing anything to the actual topic. I'm sorry your life didn't turn out how you envisioned it but don't insult me because of your insecurity about yourself.
I lost over 100lbs through you not being correct.
Eat in a deficit to lose weight.
Hit your protein and fat minimums to stay healthy and keep your gainz.
Lift heavy and do HIIT to look and feel awesome.
Use the internet to learn why you should do these things and how to do these things.
post 1487096841 03-13-2017, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
Well after reading this thread i'm not so sure, plus no one has given me a good explanation of what it will do composition wise to the body by ingesting both of those substances.
high protein foods will give you a better body composition than low protein foods, now of course you only need a certain amount of protein but if you are not getting any protein at all your body will look much different
post 1487097151 03-13-2017, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted By mrc19888⏩
Ok. So explain where that line is drawn where the body stops processing calories and turning it into fat and when it just "passes". Maybe that number for me is after I ingest 2000 calories. Then my body decides "well we have all the energy we need" then I crap the remaining 2800-3300 out. That's my point. I truly believe there is a "heaviest you can ever be" set point and "lightest you'll ever be" set point. Hell there was a handful of fat people in Auscwitz from what I remember. That's hard labor 18 hours a day on a few scoops of rice and they still stayed fat.
Genetics play a huge role in how your metabolism works and your body comp.


None of this disproves thermodynamics at all.


You and i could eat exact same foods and live identical lifestyles and still have bodies that look nothing alike.
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post 1487097201 03-13-2017, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted By CheekyRasta⏩
high protein foods will give you a better body composition than low protein foods, now of course you only need a certain amount of protein but if you are not getting any protein at all your body will look much different
Only if you're weight training though. If one person eats 2000 calories of ice cream a day and another person eats 2000 calories of protein a day but neither of them work out... their bodies would probably look identical, all else being equal
post 1487097571 03-13-2017, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted By SazabiBrah⏩
Only if you're weight training though. If one person eats 2000 calories of ice cream a day and another person eats 2000 calories of protein a day but neither of them work out... their bodies would probably look identical, all else being equal
nope, the person with the high protein diet not working out will have a better body than the person with the ice cream diet who works out
post 1487097631 03-13-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
Is this dogma still popular in the dieting scene? I can't imagine people still think a calorie is still a calorie and that the laws of thermodynamics apply the the human body where we should know by now that the body is governed by biological functions. I cease to believe IIFYM still has a place in modern eating habits. When will people learn hormones are what control fat loss/gain. Just want to hear people's opinions on this popular doctrine.
Dang son, your body can defy the laws of thermodynamics? Pics of said genetic code sequence with the defying gene underlined or it didn't happen brah. Also link reference to research article in which said gene was tested and proven to defy the law of thermodynamics. Until then, thermodynamic laws remain.
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post 1487098251 03-13-2017, 10:01 PM
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What in your body determines how much you store as fat and how much you crap out? Say you ingest 2k calories over TDEE, how does your body regulate what is stored and what is discharged as human waste in terms of energy amount of that initial 2k given. This is where I don't understand why someone would store more of that initial energy vs someone who might discharge the majority of that 2k.
post 1487098721 03-13-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
What in your body determines how much you utilize as energy, how much you store as fat, and how much you crap out? Say you ingest 2k calories over TDEE, how does your body regulate what is stored and what is discharged as human waste in terms of energy amount of that initial 2k?
Your (BMR) basal metabolic rate determines how much you burn in a day given you do zero physical activity. This BMR is based upon your height, weight, age, gender, etc.
If your BMR is 2600kcal/day, then you WILL burn 2600kcal/day just lying down in bed all day. That metabolic rate goes up with physical activity. Now whether that 2600kcal is fat, carbs, or muscle, is determined upon your diet.
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post 1487098761 03-13-2017, 10:05 PM
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Apparently OP is a special snowflake and can break the laws of thermodynamics

post 1487099051 03-13-2017, 10:07 PM
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If calories in = calories out how come when you use gear you can gain muscle on less calories?

example based on real life - Natty guy eating 4k calories daily and gains nothing weight stays the same for weeks
- Starts taking gear and eating 3.5k is able to now gain 1-2lbs a week consistently


Hormones affects the way the body processes food... FACT. Most of the food you eat is not even going towards building and repairing muscle tissue unless you have the right hormonal profile.

Energy is mostly lost through body heat if your body doesn't use it.
post 1487099101 03-13-2017, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted By bluethunder19⏩
Your (BMR) basal metabolic rate determines how much you burn in a day given you do zero physical activity. This BMR is based upon your height, weight, age, gender, etc.
If your BMR is 2600kcal/day, then you WILL burn 2600kcal/day just lying down in bed all day. That metabolic rate goes up with physical activity. Now whether that 2600kcal is fat, carbs, or muscle, is determined upon your diet.
I understand the basis of BMR and TDEE, what I was saying is say you over ingest your TDEE by 2k, what in the body regulates how much of that is stored as fat and how much is discharged as waste?
post 1487099261 03-13-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
What in your body determines how much you store as fat and how much you crap out? Say you ingest 2k calories over TDEE, how does your body regulate what is stored and what is discharged as human waste in terms of energy amount of that initial 2k given. This is where I don't understand why someone would store more of that initial energy vs someone who might discharge the majority of that 2k.
you lose energy via body heat it is not always stored as fat
post 1487099361 03-13-2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By Oburoni⏩
If calories in = calories out how come when you use gear you can gain muscle on less calories?

example based on real life - Natty guy eating 4k calories daily and gains nothing weight stays the same for weeks
- Starts taking gear and eating 3.5k is able to now gain 1-2lbs a week consistently


Hormones affects the way the body processes food... FACT. Most of the food you eat is not even going towards building and repairing muscle tissue unless you have the right hormonal profile.

Energy is mostly lost through body heat if your body doesn't use it.
Agreed 100% and on the same page, insulin has to be non-existent for the body to tap into fat stores. That is why snacking and eating 5-6 meals throughout the day even though it may be small in calories is detrimental to weight loss as you raise insulin too often.
post 1487099371 03-13-2017, 10:10 PM
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post 1487099651 03-13-2017, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted By SoutheastBeast1⏩
Stats: 5'9'', 157 lbs
I only lift lightly for health now, I run 40-50 miles a week, so that would explains the stats bud.
post 1487099751 03-13-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
Right that is where biological factors come into play, the efficiency of your metabolism, the health of your liver, how well your thyroid functions, how insulin resistive you are. Those are just a few of the many determining factors in weight/loss gain. There are many gray areas if you just apply thermo.
Of course those things come into play, but they're taken into consideration when applying the laws of thermodynamics. There is no way in hell that "Calories In vs Calories Out" implies that whatever enters your mouth is 100% absorbed. It applies to what you DO absorb.
Since you keep referring to machines... Say a car gets 10 miles to a gallon of regular. You pump 10 gallons according to the gas pump meter, but the hose is full of holes. Does this indicate that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply in this situation and that the car doesn't get 10 miles per gallon? Or do you take the loss of fuel into consideration when you're applying the Energy In vs Energy Out model? So why would you not think that the Calories in vs Calories out model would do the same?

And yes, laws of thermodynamics apply to everything in a closed system (the known universe).
I'm sure you know that mass = energy and that the golden number is 3500 calories per lb. So that means you absolutely need some excess amount of mass or energy to build. (Ie you can't build bigger lego sets with only 5 pieces.)
So your only ways of getting/losing mass are through calories, water, swallowing a rock, getting metal joints, ... or somehow drawing energy from an alternate dimension.
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
I only lift lightly for health now, I run 40-50 miles a week, so that would explains the stats bud.
The average American woman weighs more than you, lmfao
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post 1487099931 03-13-2017, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted By Admired⏩
I don't appreciate being called an idiot, i'm trying to have a civil discussion. So what determines how much energy from the food we utilize, how much is stored as fat, and how much is discharged as poop?



That is a very good way to look at it but say your TDEE is 2.5k and one week you eat 3k of non-starchy vegetables and the other week you eat 3k of just pop tarts. You honestly think the weight gain would be the same?
Do I have to link you to the thread on here with the guy getting ripped while eating a pint of ice cream a day?
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post 1487100091 03-13-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Oburoni⏩
If calories in = calories out how come when you use gear you can gain muscle on less calories?

example based on real life - Natty guy eating 4k calories daily and gains nothing weight stays the same for weeks
- Starts taking gear and eating 3.5k is able to now gain 1-2lbs a week consistently


Hormones affects the way the body processes food... FACT. Most of the food you eat is not even going towards building and repairing muscle tissue unless you have the right hormonal profile.

Energy is mostly lost through body heat if your body doesn't use it.
So you're saying each person's body processes food differently?
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