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» So...what was BEFORE the big bang exactly?
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post 1541215411 01-19-2018, 09:16 PM
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post 1541215421 01-19-2018, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant
nothing we say will help you understand as its all based on faith, reasons why i believe are similar to what miscer above said, some things in life that just made me think and feel there are higher things, rather than i can see some facts how God began and created everything
There's nothing wrong with believing in God, but what I am saying is that God doesn't answer this question. Also, I think it is important to have at least a vague idea of what it is you believe in. A lot of people cannot even give a definition for what God is, but they believe in it. The thing is that God is actually defined indirectly through the stories unique to each religion. God is definitely not a primitive notion, like that of a set or the natural numbers. The descriptions of God, when taken literally, are often logically contradictory (omniscience, omnipotence, etc) or at odds with modern theories of physics (absolute time, a failure to address relativity of simultaneity, no mention of quantum indeterminacy), but if you take them to mean some sort of very powerful being that may have "created" this structure, you are assuming a lot about the structure without evidence. You are free to believe what you want, but even if we do accept these stories, that still doesn't explain the nature of God very well, nor does it explain whatever structure God exists in/as. It just leads to more questions.
post 1541216261 01-19-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted By CoolKnees
What does negative time even mean?

It's like saying what were you before the union of sperm and egg. Doesn't make sense.
It’s like saying what does negative matter even mean?
post 1541216341 01-19-2018, 09:25 PM
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It involved God + Chad, apparently.

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post 1541216371 01-19-2018, 09:26 PM
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No one knows. Its all theory. Some guy with some degree studying something makes a few small conclusions and comes out with a theory, generally based on essentially **** all
post 1541216411 01-19-2018, 09:26 PM
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LOL @ scientists when they go on about this and that being 100 billion years old.....millions of light years away......earth began @ such a point in time.

we have what? 10% of the ocean mapped? and they preach big bang theories.

Im going with God (higher beings) and computer simulation at this point.
post 1541216671 01-19-2018, 09:29 PM
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Just because YOU don't understand something doesn't mean God takes the place.

It's like asking what's north of the north pole. Doesn't make sense. It's all relative.
post 1541217561 01-19-2018, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By dj924s
A little oral
Made me lol.

But seriously, singularity...as impossible as that would be for a human to actually grasp.

Even with the most advanced technology that has yet to be developed, we won't ever be able to see back to the beginning of the Big Bang. And it is just a theory, but it is currently the model most supported by scientific evidence and by what we currently understand about the laws of physics, even though there is no chance we could ever hope to describe the actions that occurred during the very first moment (it's not that the we don't have, or won't get the tools, it's that the tools don't even exist).

And weliterallycan't even imagine it.
post 1541217821 01-19-2018, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Flognutz
LOL @ scientists when they go on about this and that being 100 billion years old.....millions of light years away......earth began @ such a point in time.

we have what? 10% of the ocean mapped? and they preach big bang theories.
kinda true
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post 1541217931 01-19-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel
You can see a trend for how consciousness came to be if you look at the evolutionary lineages of lifeforms that came before animals. It is very complex indeed, and the emergent properties of consciousness itself from neuronal tissue are still poorly understood. To your second point: Only classically...Indeed, in GR, we live in a 4 dimensional universe, and there is no meaningfully objective way to define the entire "present" of the universe. Rather, the past, present, and future are all "written" in a giant "shape" if you will. This, unfortunately, turns out to be completely wrong. Your computer is working because this theory is probably wrong. The best models we have now allow for a kind of indeterminacy. In these quantum models of the universe, outcomes are not predetermined/fixed, but are rather randomly generated from a set of possibilities dictated by the properties of mathematical structures and are measured and determined by the observer. Yet, the entire system still remains consistent for all observers. Quantum theory is the best model we have to explain our universe right now. Now, currently, there is no viable, complete theory to explain how all the fundamental forces were unified during the early periods of the universe, and there is absolutely nothing to explain what happened in the earliest periods of the big bang. Our entire notions of space and time may be completely wrong for this era, and that's what some physicists have suggested now.
I understand that consciousness has evolved but in a nutshell, we are still composed of the same atoms, quarks,etc so what has really changed ? the laws of gravity have remained the same since the big bang as far as I know so how did these atoms, quarks, etc change ? that doesn't really make any sense unless it was already pre planned or there was some form of intervention.
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post 1541218011 01-19-2018, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant
Like miscer said in earlier post God is all powerfull and all knowing and humans cant grasp or understand him fully


yeah, acid is key and it shows us all answers to the universe lel
Right, but that offers nothing to physics. The goal is to try to understand this universe better, and specifically how or why it is as it is. God doesn't explain that usefully. It just leads to more unanswerable questions. We can say "God did it" and leave it at that, but it doesn't answer any questions. Anyway, like I said, we will likely never truly understand the nature of the early universe. However, there are some models predicted by the mathematical theories we have that offer some insight. As I mentioned before, chaotic inflation, a periodic universe, or some sort of embedding in a larger structure with a collision of branes are all posited explanations for how the universe "began". But we really don't have much to go on.
post 1541218121 01-19-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted By Flognutz
LOL @ scientists when they go on about this and that being 100 billion years old.....millions of light years away......earth began @ such a point in time.

we have what? 10% of the ocean mapped? and they preach big bang theories.

Im going with God (higher beings) and computer simulation at this point.
False equivalence. Tons of info on the big bang if you want to actually learn about why it is the current model and the evidence that we can observe that supports it. Redshift, wmap readings, partical accelerator findings, ect. This is not just something scientists pull out of thier a$$ and all blindly agree with, the big bang has been one of the most scrutinized theories over the years and the more evidence our technology allows us to obtain, the big bang model still fits perfectly, no scientist claims to “know” anything, we can only go off the evidence we have but that does not mean there is no truth to it.
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post 1541218321 01-19-2018, 09:50 PM
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we created it, watch interstallar. it explains it . 4D dimensions
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post 1541218701 01-19-2018, 09:54 PM
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The universe is just a simulation brah
post 1541218711 01-19-2018, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted By JD805
I understand that consciousness has evolved but in a nutshell, we are still composed of the same atoms, quarks,etc so what has really changed ? the laws of gravity have remained the same since the big bang as far as I know so how did these atoms, quarks, etc change ? that doesn't really make any sense unless it was already pre planned or there was some form of intervention.
What do you mean "what has changed?"? I think I see what you are asking regarding why we can't explain the early eras. To answer your question, a LOT has changed. As you go further and further back, the very types of particles that could exist changed. The weak nuclear and electromagnetic forces were unified. The strong nuclear force also was unified with the other two during the grand unification epoch. For example, in the early universe, it is believed that X and Y bosons, which coupled quarks to leptons, existed and were stable. And going back even further, it is believed that all of the forces were unified. When you go back to near the time of the singularity, even space and time start to break down. There becomes no physically meaningful way to resolve distances that finely. They don't have a theory for the behavior of the universe at or very near that point.
post 1541218861 01-19-2018, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted By BowlingWizard
I believe this too.

Still have yet to hear responses from people about how the "Big Bang" just happened out of nowhere.
How did God happen out of nowhere?
post 1541218991 01-19-2018, 09:58 PM
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The best part about science is that we can just say "I don't know" and thats an actual answer. We can have theories about what was before but we just don't know. The alternative is to make a bunch of stuff up that you have no idea if it's true or not but you just pretend
post 1541219191 01-19-2018, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted By wisdommaster1
The best part about science is that we can just say "I don't know" and thats an actual answer. We can have theories about what was before but we just don't know. The alternative is to make a bunch of stuff up that you have no idea if it's true or not but you just pretend
well thats kinda difference, faith
also lol if you think science will ever say evolution or big bang theory are wrong even if they found for a fact that they were wrong
Originally Posted By cookiefiend
How did God happen out of nowhere?
has been addressed in like 10 posts by 4 ppl
degenmaxx
post 1541219371 01-19-2018, 10:02 PM
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Nothing exists. Everything is nothing. Nothing is everything. Nothing is anything other than relative. Relativity is directly tied to perception. Perception is directly tied to the individual and the individuals level of consciousness from subconscious. Consciousness is directly tied to the individual. We are all experiencing individual consciousness through our individual consciousness. Consciousness is limitless , unmeasurable and internal. Therefore we are all experiencing " life " therefore processing " feelings " and " emotions " individually. Independent from all other humans. Only remotely tied to other humans through a " near " or " similar " level of consciousness , forming a bond via similar individual response via " feeling " and " emotion " . Therefore creating a sense of " group " " them and us ". Therefore everything in " life " is nothing and can be nothing and never will be anything other than individually relative
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post 1541219601 01-19-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By TrotonKat
Nothing exists. Everything is nothing. Nothing is everything. Nothing is anything other than relative. Relativity is directly tied to perception. Perception is directly tied to the individual and the individuals level of consciousness from subconscious. Consciousness is directly tied to the individual. We are all experiencing individual consciousness through our individual consciousness. Consciousness is limitless , unmeasurable and internal. Therefore we are all experiencing " life " therefore processing " feelings " and " emotions " individually. Independent from all other humans. Only remotely tied to other humans through a " near " or " similar " level of consciousness , forming a bond via similar individual response via " feeling " and " emotion " . Therefore creating a sense of " group " " them and us ". Therefore everything in " life " is nothing and can be nothing and never will be anything other than individually relative
shut up sloot, you are probs old enough to witness creation of universe
degenmaxx
post 1541219621 01-19-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted By wisdommaster1
The best part about science is that we can just say "I don't know" and thats an actual answer. We can have theories about what was before but we just don't know. The alternative is to make a bunch of stuff up that you have no idea if it's true or not but you just pretend
That's master wisdom, Wisdom Master.
post 1541220271 01-19-2018, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant
well thats kinda difference, faith
also lol if you think science will ever say evolution or big bang theory are wrong even if they found for a fact that they were wrong

has been addressed in like 10 posts by 4 ppl
Ummm that is kind of the point of science.

And saying LOL Time doesn't apply to God because I said so...

Doesn't really fly.
post 1541220461 01-19-2018, 10:16 PM
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What a coincidence that the age of the universe alleged by the big bang coincides with the age of the universe stated in the jewish Kabbalah.
Oh and what a coincidence that the big bang was 'discovered' by a jesuit priest.

My oh my. Thank god for science and how great it is to have all of our questions answered by turning on the TV and watching actors read their scripts.
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post 1541220711 01-19-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted By pollywogpriest
What a coincidence that the age of the universe alleged by the big bang coincides with the age of the universe stated in the jewish Kabbalah.
Oh and what a coincidence that the big bang was 'discovered' by a jesuit priest.

My oh my. Thank god for science and how great it is to have all of our questions answered by turning on the TV and watching actors read their scripts.
Evolution is pretty ridic to me, as good MR Garrison explained in vid i linked above,brb my great ancestor was a retarded different fish that didnt want to be in the water anymore
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post 1541220911 01-19-2018, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted By pollywogpriest
What a coincidence that the age of the universe alleged by the big bang coincides with the age of the universe stated in the jewish Kabbalah.
Oh and what a coincidence that the big bang was 'discovered' by a jesuit priest.

My oh my. Thank god for science and how great it is to have all of our questions answered by turning on the TV and watching actors read their scripts.
That's not really true. The age of the universe is based on a cosmological constant and is just an estimation.
post 1541221291 01-19-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant
shut up sloot, you are probs old enough to witness creation of universe
You made my panties wet replying to my comment.
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post 1541221391 01-19-2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel
What do you mean "what has changed?"? I think I see what you are asking regarding why we can't explain the early eras. To answer your question, a LOT has changed. As you go further and further back, the very types of particles that could exist changed. The weak nuclear and electromagnetic forces were unified. The strong nuclear force also was unified with the other two during the grand unification epoch. For example, in the early universe, it is believed that X and Y bosons, which coupled quarks to leptons, existed and were stable. And going back even further, it is believed that all of the forces were unified. When you go back to near the time of the singularity, even space and time start to break down. There becomes no physically meaningful way to resolve distances that finely. They don't have a theory for the behavior of the universe at or very near that point.
This is what I am trying to say, in the "beginning" things started off with simple atoms like helium and hydrogen and it kind of went from there. That was only possible because things had to change, whether it's because the weak and electromagnetic forces were unified or something of that nature. Is it possible that those laws were also somehow manipulated ? it seems to perfect and ideal that they changed over time given the fact that it is what made it possible for us to have this conversation.

It could very well be just a fluke but then that would destroy whatever concept we have of pain, suffering and morality, why even bother studying it. We are essentially a bunch of atoms trying to understand ourselves but do we even have control over that ?

edit: my bad if I didn't do a good of explaining myself but it's kind of difficult to explain at times.
Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant
shut up sloot, you are probs old enough to witness creation of universe
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post 1541221861 01-19-2018, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant
Evolution is pretty ridic to me, as good MR Garrison explained in vid i linked above,brb my great ancestor was a retarded different fish that didnt want to be in the water anymore
Come on dude. That video is a total joke and deliberately straw manning the theory of evolution. The changes occured very gradually, with accumulated mutations leading to adaptations. It's not like a "fish had buttsex with a squirrel to make a monkey". Seriously. If you need evidence of evolution, take a population of bacteria, subject them to an antibiotic, and watch what happens. Those that survived, if they survived due to a genetic variation, will pass their genes on. Over time, the entire population will evolve resistance to the antibiotic. Imagine a large number of these types of changes occuring over billions of years in response to the selection pressures of the environment. Yes, it is hard to believe, but your ancient ancestor was a single celled organism.

And that ancestor was a cell trying to eat smaller cells! When you look at the relationships between alphaproteobacteria and mitochondria or cyanobacteria and chloroplasts and the fact that these intracellular organelles have double membranes along with their own DNA, it is almost obvious that endosymbiosis occured. There are so many other similar weird things that are best explained by gradual changes, and the interactions of microbes. We are what we are due to these many interactions and changes, occuring over billions of years.
Originally Posted By TrotonKat
Nothing exists. Everything is nothing. Nothing is everything. Nothing is anything other than relative. Relativity is directly tied to perception. Perception is directly tied to the individual and the individuals level of consciousness from subconscious. Consciousness is directly tied to the individual. We are all experiencing individual consciousness through our individual consciousness. Consciousness is limitless , unmeasurable and internal. Therefore we are all experiencing " life " therefore processing " feelings " and " emotions " individually. Independent from all other humans. Only remotely tied to other humans through a " near " or " similar " level of consciousness , forming a bond via similar individual response via " feeling " and " emotion " . Therefore creating a sense of " group " " them and us ". Therefore everything in " life " is nothing and can be nothing and never will be anything other than individually relative
post 1541222941 01-19-2018, 10:41 PM
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i know vid is over the top wincell and u are right about things you said when subjected it can change, but what made a fish or whatever get out of the ocean and learn to breathe, on a large scale like a single cell to human, i find that very hard to believe
there are cases of many big biologists go religious in later stages of their lives
Originally Posted By TrotonKat
You made my panties wet replying to my comment.
didnt know you can get wet at your age, i must be really good
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post 1541223491 01-19-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel
Come on dude. That video is a total joke and deliberately straw other similar weird things that are best explained by gradual changes, and the interactions of microbes. We are what we are due to these many interactions and changes, occuring over billions of years.



Maybe you just can't understand it.
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