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Forum Β» The California bar shooting last night...
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Thread: The California bar shooting last night...

post 1565742201 11-08-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted By aal04⏩
As an Aussie i never understood this. I get that you guys want freedom to be armed but to protect yourself from government?... yeah good luck with that

How about nukes? Atleast you may stand a chance against the US military juggernaut from your lil 2 bedroom apartment.
That is implying that the soldiers, who are also citizens with loved ones residing in the country, will gladly up and launch nukes on their own country with no worries at all.
There are MUCH bigger things to worry about if it comes down to that, but to imply that the government will go nuclear on its own citizens is an asinine argument. Same applies for use of tanks, helicopters, etc to mass kill.
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post 1565742241 11-08-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted By RiYelir⏩
Even with shootings like this, I still support our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bare arms.



So no doubt " mass shootings" are a terrible tragedy, but is it the fact that they are "mass" events that makes them so much worse than an over all higher crime rate?

The UK for sure has less mass shootings now with stricter gun laws, but the over all violent crime rate has gone up. BRB more likely to be stabbed to death than shot now, I feel so much safer.



BRB the police won't be there to help protect me either, so I am proper fu*ked without a means of defending myself.
95% of stabbings are gang on gang and it's "unmanageable" because police budget has been slashed.
post 1565742251 11-08-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
Was unaware, thanks for the info. But there was still the armed on-duty officer that showed up on the scene that was unfortunately shot and killed
So cops are supposed to be impervious to bullets because he is armed too? He is running into an active shooter situation amist mass chaos not knowing who is the shooter. The shooter was also a trained marine with combat experience.
post 1565742301 11-08-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted By aal04⏩
As an Aussie i never understood this. I get that you guys want freedom to be armed but to protect yourself from government?... yeah good luck with that

How about nukes? Atleast you may stand a chance against the US military juggernaut from your lil 2 bedroom apartment.
Yeah, not like a bunch of Vietnamese hiding in a jungle with aks put up a fight to the US military or anything.....and nukes? Yeah, seems like a brilliant way for the government to take back control of the country....because there wont be a country to govern left.
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post 1565742371 11-08-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted By Chezdon⏩
95% of stabbings are gang on gang and it's "unmanageable" because police budget has been slashed.
Sounds similar to American gun crime statistics. : )
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post 1565742401 11-08-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted By 11lemon11⏩
In the final three years of the 19th century, when guns were freely available in Britain, there was only one gun homicide recorded across all of the country's hospitals per year. So 3 gun homicides in 3 years. Today there are around 60 per year despite much stricter gun laws.
lmao the population has increased a ton since the 19th century brah.. im not sure what point you're trying to make here
Originally Posted By mikebadg3⏩
smart gun tech doesn't work
can you back this up? Everything I've read has said the technology isnt the problem at all, but more so the ideology of it that the NRA is opposed to
Originally Posted By Chezdon⏩
Obviously for the first few decades or so. Then guns will slowly disappear. Will be difficult with a 350m population but it'll happen eventually. Or you just learn to live with a few mass shootings every year forever. Either a generation or two takes the sacrifice to be unarmed and hope others don't have guns illegally or shootings like this will continue.
I've also thought about this exact idea as well for being a possible option
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post 1565742541 11-08-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted By canonhope⏩
You don't take over a populace using nukes. And you don't understand as an Aussie because most of you were SENT to Oz and the British grew tired of ruling and ALLOWED you to rule yourselves.

America began as people LEFT England, and then had to FIGHT to rule ourselves. That's where it originates.
Thanks for fighting the British, I'm glad you have your gun in case they decide to return

brb stuck in the 1700's
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post 1565742601 11-08-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
can you back this up? Everything I've read has said the technology isnt the problem at all, but more so the ideology of it that the NRA is opposed to
Are you not entertained?

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post 1565742641 11-08-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
Actually,






because it doesn't happen nearly as often. I'd bet statistically for every 1 mass shooting stopped by a good guy, 10 are carried out successfully by a bad guy
Gun deaths are not the same as gun violence or gun homicides,

In those states you listed the major gun deaths are actually suicides. So really the only thing that more guns equals is more suicides by guns, it also factors in things such as justifiable homicides, i.e. self defense shootings

Only morons use gun deaths to try and equal more gun violence
post 1565742711 11-08-2018, 03:51 PM
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If gun ownership is such an issue

Why not have stronger restrictions on ammunition? I mean the government keeps track of things like how much coffee syrup you buy and fertilizer.

Also, I think it would make sense to just register your gun yearly. And like smog checks, have medical and criminal background checks. The check your eyes when renewed your license. That would also help then catch if someone illegally modified thief gun/guns.
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post 1565742751 11-08-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By RiYelir⏩
Sounds similar to American gun crime statistics. : )
this

who was Chicago?
post 1565742771 11-08-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Chezdon⏩
95% of stabbings are gang on gang and it's "unmanageable" because police budget has been slashed.
It's not about police figures. The police aren't on the streets. You can't deter crime no matter how many officers you've got if they're sat in an office somewhere.

Read this:

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co...xons-day-.html
post 1565742811 11-08-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted By Antonio519⏩
Thanks for fighting the British, I'm glad you have your gun in case they decide to return

brb stuck in the 1700's
Stay your ass in Chit town bro. No guns there so you should feel safe.

My point to the Aussie was to show him why it seems "American" to own guns and he as an Aussie couldn't understand. has to do with our history.
Chaos and apocalypse on us all
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post 1565742941 11-08-2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By canonhope⏩
Stay your ass in Chit town bro. No guns there so you should feel safe.
You do know that you can conceal/carry in Chicago right....?
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post 1565742951 11-08-2018, 03:53 PM
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OP do you honestly think home invading 50-75 million homes occupied by responsible gun owners is going to do anything short of spark a civil war?
A million miles away - I don't.. feel.... anything.
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post 1565743181 11-08-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Antonio519⏩
You do know that you can conceal/carry in Chicago right....?
Do you CC?
Chaos and apocalypse on us all
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post 1565743611 11-08-2018, 04:00 PM
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#77
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like omg enough is enough we need to pass a law saying only good guys can have guns and then no bad guys will have guns and the shootings will stop, but the NRA wont let us
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you got to pick 'em up just to say hello.
post 1565743641 11-08-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted By omnip0tent⏩
This was just one smart gun tech company that failed though, there are more that are promising. We shouldn't ditch the idea just because of something like this, they can improve and eventually be a viable solution.

LodeStar is one company that is in the works of developing a 9-millimeter smart pistol that will use a radio frequency to connect gun to owner.
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post 1565743691 11-08-2018, 04:01 PM
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#79
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Originally Posted By snailsrus⏩
If gun ownership is such an issue

Why not have stronger restrictions on ammunition? I mean the government keeps track of things like how much coffee syrup you buy and fertilizer.

Also, I think it would make sense to just register your gun yearly. And like smog checks, have medical and criminal background checks. The check your eyes when renewed your license. That would also help then catch if someone illegally modified thief gun/guns.
California passed new laws in 2016. The cliffs are:

-By July 2019: Point of sale background checks on ammo purchases will begin ($1 fee. Firearm background check fee is like $70.. go figure)
-Direct mail ammo orders ban began Jan. 2017
-It's illegal to import ammo from out of CA
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post 1565744031 11-08-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted By dhawkeye1980⏩
So cops are supposed to be impervious to bullets because he is armed too? He is running into an active shooter situation amist mass chaos not knowing who is the shooter. The shooter was also a trained marine with combat experience.
this is exactly my point. The good guy with a gun is not very reliable to take out the bad guy with a gun because of several reasons including the ones you played out for us
Originally Posted By dhawkeye1980⏩
Gun deaths are not the same as gun violence or gun homicides,

In those states you listed the major gun deaths are actually suicides. So really the only thing that more guns equals is more suicides by guns, it also factors in things such as justifiable homicides, i.e. self defense shootings

Only morons use gun deaths to try and equal more gun violence
it also factored in specific categories such as homicides though, which is what I'd agree should of course be focused on above gun-related suicides
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post 1565744301 11-08-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
it also factored in specific categories such as homicides though, which is what I'd agree should of course be focused on above gun-related suicides
Gun homocides = one person killing another with a firearm

Gun deaths = suicides, homicides, accidental deaths, police shootings

See why saying "gun deaths" skews the numbers in favor of gun grabbers?
post 1565745341 11-08-2018, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
Well, there were SIX off-duty officers at the bar when the shooting happened and an on-duty officer that entered the bar to try and stop the shooting minutes after it started.... who ended up being shot and killed by the gunman.
There are too many factors to consider here. Were the officers even carrying? Were they incapacitated in anyway (eg alcohol)? You make it sound like the bad guy came in and high nooned the six officers before they could draw their pistols.

Also you could kill almost everyone in that bar in a split second using improvised explosives, you don't need an evil gun.
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post 1565745371 11-08-2018, 04:25 PM
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You can't look at an isolated spree shooter as a reason to ban guns.

Look at how many tens of thousands of murders and many many more robberies there are every year in the US.

The only defense most people have is a firearm. No little old lady or even most women could stop someone from assaulting or raping or killing them without a gun.
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post 1565745611 11-08-2018, 04:28 PM
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Armed guards would have solved the problem or at least minimized it.
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post 1565745981 11-08-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
How come they dont happen in australia or japan where there are no guns?
Japan is culturally homogeneous and Australia has rape and burglary problems to include hot entry. UK is similiar in crime. Lower in murder but higher in other forms of violent crime.
Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
The amount of mass killing events in the UK is nowehere even close to the degree of mass killings in the US.. probably because a guy with a knife or sword can be subdued much more easily than someone with a gun. You cant equate a knife/sword to a gun brah.
But you can certainly equate a vehicle to a firearm in terms of damage. Vehicles are much easier to acquire.
Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
So I guess we just shouldn't have any laws at all then eh?

& If lives saved are not reported and there are no stats/data available, then how can you say it is magnitudes more than guns being used for crime lol? It goes both ways btw, not all guns used in crime are reported either. We only know what we know, and current statistics show guns are used about 10x more for crime than they are for self-defense.
FWIW, out of the ~11000 gang related (gang on gang) violence accounts for about 8800 of those crime in isolated communities. This leaves about 2200 deaths of which ~250 are accidental and ~750 justified. That leaves only 1200 murders a year on average.


According to the below study, there was 30'000 cases where a firearms was reportedly used in self defense. See bottom of page 27 Appendix 22. FWIW this comes from a study that is critical of firearm use.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
I see your point, and I'm not pushing to necessarily ban firearms because I think that would create havoc at this point since there are so many in circulation now after letting the firearm cancer to spread for so long. I just want stricter regulations/public safety measures implemented towards them such as smart gun technology requirements, which would allow good guys to keep their guns and (most) bad guys from accessing them.

Oh I agree we have many problems in our society... guns are just one of them
In America, NH, VT and ME have some of most relaxed firearm laws in American. We also have the lowest violent crime rates in America.
post 1565746091 11-08-2018, 04:37 PM
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what are you proposing we do, opie?
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post 1565746121 11-08-2018, 04:38 PM
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Anyone who claims they need a gun is a ****en backwoods hillbilly end of story. Liking guns and NEEDing one is very different.


I swear to god if they just made an IQ test requirement before being able to purchase a gun, gun ownership would drop like a rock.
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post 1565746171 11-08-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted By aal04⏩
As an Aussie i never understood this. I get that you guys want freedom to be armed but to protect yourself from government?... yeah good luck with that

How about nukes? Atleast you may stand a chance against the US military juggernaut from your lil 2 bedroom apartment.
First: I own my own house thank you.
Second: yes the United States government will nuke their own country, send tanks rolling up the streets and start blasting houses if there is a revolution
post 1565746191 11-08-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By CaliSuperSport⏩
Got a friend that went to University of Texas. Gonna see him next month for the first time in years and judging by FB, he's the same mentality as your buddy.

Universities are borderline indoctrination facilities.
This is what he proposed.

Weapon sales freeze until comprehensive background checks implemented, one year probationary license where weapons are solely handled under direct supervision from an appointed officer until after so many hours released to home possession, finger ID on all new weapons allowing only owners to use, GPS installed onto every firearm registered with local law enforcement (old and new - automatic police alert when carried within 200 yards of a school zone), zero tolerance/weapon ban for mental health disorders and those convicted of a felony or any domestic assault, zero tolerance/total ban on weapon modification allowing faster rate of fire, zero online gun or ammunition sales, caps on ammunition sales.

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post 1565746201 11-08-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By cojones539⏩
How come they dont happen in australia or japan where there are no guns?
because Japan barely has any violent crime to begin with ?
because Australia simply saw the tool of use change, and the gun ban didn't really have any effect on violent crime?
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