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Forum » Wait? what sick **** created Sex reassignment surgery?
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Thread: Wait? what sick **** created Sex reassignment surgery?

post 1612070291 07-30-2020, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
To address the point, the cohort from 1989-2003 did not show any increase in suicidality compared to controls. If one must wonder why someone who had an op before that might have been more suicidal in a time when being trans was extremely frowned upon and LGBT rights basically didn't exist, one would be exactly the type of idiot to post here bashing trans people.
I would think the increased risk would come from the realization of having to spend 60 minutes to 4 hours of dilating with plastic rods every day for the rest of their lives else the wound would heal itself. I find it disturbing that major body modification surgery can be approved on people who either currently have depression or suicidal thoughts, or have attempted suicide in the past.

How about counseling that can be focused on the patients keeping their sexual parts, instead of going through life changing surgery that can be undone.
post 1612070991 07-30-2020, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Read. The. Thread. Anyway, for anyone who gives a shyt, pls go here and read:

https://whatweknow.inequality.cornel...der-people%20/

This should settle any debate on this issue. Any citations of the Swedish study as an attempt to evaluate the efficacy of gender reassignment surgery are a misrepresentation of the author's findings. She indicated the study was not designed to evaluate pre and post op comparisons for that purpose. To address the point, the cohort from 1989-2003 did not show any increase in suicidality compared to controls. If one must wonder why someone who had an op before that might have been more suicidal in a time when being trans was extremely frowned upon and LGBT rights basically didn't exist, one would be exactly the type of idiot to post here bashing trans people.
Fuk tranny surgery they deserve medicine to help their mental illness not mutilation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption
post 1612071251 07-30-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
I would think the increased risk would come from the realization of having to spend 60 minutes to 4 hours of dilating with plastic rods every day for the rest of their lives else the wound would heal itself. I find it disturbing that major body modification surgery can be approved on people who either currently have depression or suicidal thoughts, or have attempted suicide in the past.

How about counseling that can be focused on the patients keeping their sexual parts, instead of going through life changing surgery that can be undone.
You have no studies to show that, as the author said in the AMA. However, there are studies showing discrimination and minority stress increase suicide. Here we have the true argument. You find it disturbing. BTW ppl from the 1989-2003 cohort still had to dilate so your argument makes no sense.

Facts don't care about your feelings. As I said before studies showed the treatment helps more than not. Therapy to help prevent suicide is good. But gender conversion psychotherapy is ineffective and downright harmful.

Your way kills more people.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...stract/2749479

But we all know that is secretly what you right wing nutjobs want. You want to remove the existence of anything other than pure male or female, pretend these trans people don't exist, and quietly have them kill themselves or murder them. Or you'd rather they live uncomfortable lives and suffer just so you feel less icky about them. With all due respect, which is none, fuk you.
post 1612071391 07-30-2020, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted By BulkingIsHard⏩
Fuk tranny surgery they deserve medicine to help their mental illness not mutilation
If we had a way to change their brains back to "normal", we would do that. We don't, and the brain takes priority over the rest of the body.
post 1612071671 07-30-2020, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted By Ravishing_Rick⏩
This is sweet. Camera crews are setting up, and I'm lookin' totally ripped. Beefcake. Beefcake.

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post 1612071781 07-30-2020, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
gender dysphoria is not "sexual deviancy"
Leave this place.
post 1612072361 07-30-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted By BrosefMengele⏩
Leave this place.
stfu u named urself after josef mengele

ur only education is a fuking fairy tale

your god isn't real, and everything u believe is a lie and ur too naive to even understand that

fist urself until ur ass falls out
post 1612072731 07-30-2020, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
But we all know that is secretly what you right wing nutjobs want. You want to remove the existence of anything other than pure male or female, pretend these trans people don't exist, and quietly have them kill themselves or murder them. Or you'd rather they live uncomfortable lives and suffer just so you feel less icky about them. With all due respect, which is none, fuk you.
In both our countries it is illegal and socially unacceptable for males to take male hormones to increase muscle mass and fight depression, yet legal for male teens to be prescribed female hormones and puberty blockers.

Would more testosterone ever be considered a treatment for a boy having gender dysphoria? I doubt it.
post 1612073051 07-30-2020, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
In both our countries it is illegal and socially unacceptable for males to take male hormones to increase muscle mass and fight depression, yet legal for male teens to be prescribed female hormones and puberty blockers.

Would more testosterone ever be considered a treatment for a boy having gender dysphoria? I doubt it.
It's not illegal. You can get prescribed T if ur low T. They won't sell you sex hormones either without doctors approving it. Low t is a distinct condition from gender dysphoria.

And our law is often contradictory and stupid on many matters. For example, why do we pretend pro sports are clean? lol
post 1612073091 07-30-2020, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
stfu u named urself after josef mengele

ur only education is a fuking fairy tale

your god isn't real, and everything u believe is a lie and ur too naive to even understand that

fist urself until ur ass falls out
Leave here.
post 1612074031 07-30-2020, 07:24 AM
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Wincel would you be in favor of someone with "body integrity dysphoria" having themselves surgically blinded or a limb removed if it improved their quality of life? This is currently considered a mental illness under the DSM 5.

edit- ICD-11 (phuck dsm5 anyway)
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post 1612074051 07-30-2020, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted By BrosefMengele⏩
Leave here.
u leave
post 1612074261 07-30-2020, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
Wincel would you be in favor of someone with "body integrity dysphoria" having themselves surgically blinded or a limb removed if it improved their quality of life? This is currently considered a mental illness under the DSM 5.
Possibly. But you'd need to do the studies and show that it was necessary. Is there a high suicide rate in people with that dysmorphia? If not, is there a pressing need to do it? Do these people often self mutilate? Etc. The benefits must outweigh the risks. For that condition, it probably isn't the case.

For trans, we have data showing the surgeries are overall helpful. That's why doctors debated this and decided this fuking like 20 years ago. And we keep getting more data that it is worth offering.
post 1612074761 07-30-2020, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Possibly. But you'd need to do the studies and show that it was necessary. Is there a high suicide rate in people with that dysmorphia? If not, is there a pressing need to do it? Do these people often self mutilate? Etc. The benefits must outweigh the risks. For that condition, it probably isn't the case.

For trans, we have data showing the surgeries are overall helpful. That's why doctors debated this and decided this fuking like 20 years ago. And we keep getting more data that it is worth offering.
i dont have a counterargument other than it is gross.
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post 1612074851 07-30-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
u leave
I despise you.
post 1612075341 07-30-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
i dont have a counterargument other than it is gross.
Exactly. I used to feel the same way about trannies. I'd mock them. Post the dilation meme. Then I read the research. I started to empathize. I had met a trans person in school. Dude was like 6'6" and dressed like a girl. I remember no one talking to him/her. Everyone would awkwardly stare. Person was nice too in class and participated. I started thinking about WHY someone would be that way. When I went through my own depression and mental illness, I was forced to acknowledge the physicality of my brain and the fact that it may have a real chemical imbalance due to trauma. The physiological changes were reinforcing my depression. And I got to thinking what about other mental health issues? Indeed, today, we know there is a physiological component to every mental health issue. And if we dug deep enough, we'd have a physical explanation.

What makes a trans person? Is it an aberration in development? Perhaps there is a male brain and female brain, and somehow some receptors were fuked? Perhaps it was due to trauma or some environmental thing? Maybe a combination of both? Fact is we don't know. But we do know some things statistically seem to help. And we know these people exist and need help somehow and society had largely forsaken them until only recently. I'd never date a trans person, and I don't really understand them. But I can empathize with their situation, and I can see what makes it better and what makes it worse.

I will go with what the studies generally show and the decision of the doctors to offer these surgeries with appropriate psychological screening. The doctor mentioned earlier in the thread was a criminal and unlicensed. He was not following protocol.
post 1612075361 07-30-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted By Ravishing_Rick⏩
delete this

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post 1612075811 07-30-2020, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Possibly. But you'd need to do the studies and show that it was necessary. Is there a high suicide rate in people with that dysmorphia? If not, is there a pressing need to do it? Do these people often self mutilate? Etc. The benefits must outweigh the risks. For that condition, it probably isn't the case.

For trans, we have data showing the surgeries are overall helpful. That's why doctors debated this and decided this fuking like 20 years ago. And we keep getting more data that it is worth offering.
Agree with bolded, it should be offered to adults who have gone through extensive counselling but it should be recognised that your sex remains unchanged for all legal purposes. You cannot change sex, the most science can offer you is a degree of “unsexing”.

Wincel, if a white man identified as black man (bearing in mind, you don’t need surgery’s or even HRT for a male to now claim womanhood).
Would you be against letting him claim limited aids that are designed to help the black community? Such as grants, affirmative action etc?
Would you allow any crimes he committed to be listed as black crimes?
Would you force the black community to recognise this man as black and punish them if they spoke out?
Would you allow him to claim “First black xxxxxx” if he reaches a goal that a black man hasn’t had the opportunity accomplish yet?
Would you allow this man to be hired as black to fill any diversity quotas a workplace might have?
Would you allow him to be a black spokesman and drive policy change that could affect primarily black people?

Or would you let him look, dress and acts as he wants BUT recognise that no matter how much he wants it and no matter how much he believes it. He is a white man and his claiming to be a black man might potentially be at the detriment to the already unprivileged black community?

There is less biological differences between white and black males than there is between males and females. Why is transrace seen as heresy and transgender lauded as bravery?
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post 1612076051 07-30-2020, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
It's not illegal. You can get prescribed T if ur low T. They won't sell you sex hormones either without doctors approving it. Low t is a distinct condition from gender dysphoria.

And our law is often contradictory and stupid on many matters. For example, why do we pretend pro sports are clean? lol
I didn't say low T, I said to increase muscle mass or to treat depression. The medical ranges of low T are so wide most of us would consider it being too low
post 1612076571 07-30-2020, 07:56 AM
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wincel is mentally ill.
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post 1612076861 07-30-2020, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted By ChelshireCat⏩
Agree with bolded, it should be offered to adults who have gone through extensive counselling but it should be recognised that your sex remains unchanged for all legal purposes. You cannot change sex, the most science can offer you is a degree of “unsexing”.

Wincel, if a white man identified as black man (bearing in mind, you don’t need surgery’s or even HRT for a male to now claim womanhood).
Would you be against letting him claim limited aids that are designed to help the black community? Such as grants, affirmative action etc?
Would you allow any crimes he committed to be listed as black crimes?
Would you force the black community to recognise this man as black and punish them if they spoke out?
Would you allow him to claim “First black xxxxxx” if he reaches a goal that a black man hasn’t had the opportunity accomplish yet?
Would you allow this man to be hired as black to fill any diversity quotas a workplace might have?
Would you allow him to be a black spokesman and drive policy change that could affect primarily black people?

Or would you let him look, dress and acts as he wants BUT recognise that no matter how much he wants it and no matter how much he believes it. He is a white man and his claiming to be a black man might potentially be at the detriment to the already unprivileged black community?

There is less biological differences between white and black males than there is between males and females. Why is transrace seen as heresy and transgender lauded as bravery?
Well scientifically, we don't even have good definitions for what it means to be white or black, so I think affirmative action and any preferential hiring is bullchit. If any aid is given, it should be based on proven lineage of oppression or something, and maybe allow u to get some grant or reparation from govt, but that is it imo. I don't see transrace as heresy. I'm not even sure what race actually is except a meme by nonscientific people to oppress each other.
post 1612076951 07-30-2020, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted By Devils⏩
I didn't say low T, I said to increase muscle mass or to treat depression. The medical ranges of low T are so wide most of us would consider it being too low
Well ur consideration doesn't outweigh scientific literature on the subject...
post 1612077401 07-30-2020, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Well scientifically, we don't even have good definitions for what it means to be white or black, so I think affirmative action and any preferential hiring is bullchit. If any aid is given, it should be based on proven lineage of oppression or something, and maybe allow u to get some grant or reparation from govt, but that is it imo. I don't see transrace as heresy. I'm not even sure what race actually is except a meme by nonscientific people to oppress each other.
That is fine.

If you can’t define race then you can’t define racism. If you can’t define sex then you can’t define sexism. Easy and clever way to stop those ‘pesky’ non-white males from speaking up about their oppression. Fair play tbh.
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post 1612077801 07-30-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted By ChelshireCat⏩
That is fine.

If you can’t define race then you can’t define racism. If you can’t define sex then you can’t define sexism. Easy and clever way to stop those pesky non-white males from speaking up about their oppression. Fair play tbh.
Not true. Racism can still be defined. There is a social definition for race, but not a legal one. Read what I said. There is no scientific definition for human races in the way we conventionally think of them while having it be consistent with scientific notions of race for other species. People had a pseudoscientific notion that there were three races: caucusoid, mongoloid, and negroid. In fact, we have foubd there are clines, and there is a smooth blending. The closest thing to races are seen in isolated island populations of humans. However, we can clearly see dark skinned people were discriminated against and are still discriminated against in the US. We have a loosely defined social notion of race based on skin color and national origin. It's funny because what would a 50% "black" and 50% "white" person be?

I have been very vocal about discrimination against white men. I have always contended that one can switch the word white with black and ask if the title is ok. If not, it's racist.
post 1612078301 07-30-2020, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted By niospecv⏩
wincel is mentally ill.
to be fair 25% of the us population has a diagnosable mental illness at some point



as we hack into the brain in the future, we will just hack the part that makes you sad about the body you're trapped inside of instead of hacking up the body?
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post 1612079001 07-30-2020, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
to be fair 25% of the us population has a diagnosable mental illness at some point



as we hack into the brain in the future, we will just hack the part that makes you sad about the body you're trapped inside of instead of hacking up the body?
That's definitely not gonna happen.
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Not true. Racism can still be defined. There is a social definition for race, but not a legal one. Read what I said. There is no scientific definition for human races in the way we conventionally think of them. People had an a pseudoscientific notion that there were three races: caucusoid, mongoloid, and negroid. In fact, we have foubd there are clines, and there is a smooth blending. The closest thing to races are seen in isolated island populations of humans. However, we can clearly see dark skinned people were discriminated against and are still discriminated against in the US. We have a loosely defined social notion of race based on skin color and national origin. It's funny because what would a 50% "black" and 50% "white" person be?

I have been very vocal about discrimination against white men. I have always contended that one can switch the word white with black and ask if the title is ok. If not, it's racist.
So what you are saying is that there is no scientific definition for race. A scientist wouldn’t be able to tell the race of a body? Agree to disagree on that.

So what about sex? Do you think a scientist couldn’t define the sex of a body?.... Also how does “smooth blending” for the sexes work? I imagine these people would amount to a fair proportion of society what with all the males and females keep breeding together. What gametes do this third sex create and to who's do they react with please?
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Originally Posted By ChelshireCat⏩
So what you are saying is that there is no scientific definition for race. A scientist wouldn’t be able to tell the race of a body? Agree to disagree on that.

So what about sex? Do you think a scientist couldn’t define the sex of a body?.... Also how does “smooth blending” for the sexes work? I imagine these people would amount to a fair proportion of society what with all the males and females keep breeding together. What gametes do this third sex create and to who's do they react with please?
For something to be a definition, it must be unambiguous whether every element of the set in question satisfies it or not. This is not the case for race and most people.

We have words, such as chromo****l sex, and phenotype to capture these notions more carefully. I have never read any scientific literature on gender. I know gender dysphoria is a well-defined phenomenon where a person self identifies as something other than their chromo****l sex would suggest and is deemed socially aberrant. There is no smooth blending of sexes as there is with race. There is a discrete number of sexes. It is more than 2 because you have xx, xy, xxy, x, etc. Most that are not XX or XY are infertile. Some XXY can produce sperm.
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  1. ChelshireCat
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  3. Join Date: Jan 2015
  4. Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
For something to be a definition, it must be unambiguous whether every element of the set in question satisfies it or not. This is not the case for race and most people.

We have words, such as chromo****l sex, and phenotype to capture these notions more carefully. I have never read any scientific literature on gender. I know gender dysphoria is a well-defined phenomenon where a person self identifies as something other than their chromo****l sex would suggest and is deemed socially aberrant. There is no smooth blending of sexes aa there is with race. There is a discrete number of sexes. It is more than 2 because you have xx, xy, xxy, x, etc.
“Klinefelter syndrome

Klinefelter syndrome (sometimes called Klinefelter's, KS or XXY) is where boys and men are born with an extra X chromosome.

Chromosomes are packages of genes found in every cell in the body. There are 2 types of chromosome, called the sex chromosomes, that determine the genetic sex of a baby. These are named either X or Y.

Usually, a female baby has 2 X chromosomes (XX) and a male has 1 X and 1 Y (XY). But in Klinefelter syndrome, a boy is born with an extra copy of the X chromosome (XXY).

The X chromosome is not a "female" chromosome and is present in everyone. The presence of a Y chromosome denotes male sex.

Boys and men with Klinefelter syndrome are still genetically male, and often will not realise they have this extra chromosome, but occasionally it can cause problems that may require treatment.

Klinefelter syndrome affects around 1 in every 660 males.”

Source.https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/klinefelters-syndrome/

NHS... our health service. Maybe chromosomes are seen as different in USA though.

Anyone with a Y chromosome is defined scientifically and legally as a male in the UK.

Edit: Still 2 sexes. One with a Y chromosome and one without. No matter what other variation.

Present Y chromosome? Male. Man He/Him
No Y chromosome? Female. Woman. She/Her

Simple. Logical definition.
Gender Identity: Miscer pronouns: ****/****g‏‏‎ot

Traitors gonna trait

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