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Bible God ordering the death of children and babies?
08-08-2022, 09:45 AM
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#61
- miscerForLulz
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Originally Posted By TheAdlerian⏩
This is dialog huh?Please, shut the f@CK up.
I'm asking a legit question. If salvation is what you say it is, then I'd be a fool not to accept.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
08-08-2022, 09:53 AM
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#62
- Paul Kreul
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Originally Posted By numberguy12⏩
Yes, I’m aware of what rainbows are & how they are formed. When God flooded the earth, that is when Rainbows first appeared, that is literally the first recording of a rainbow in human history. God flooded the earth by breaking a canopy of water or what we might call another “sphere”/or atmospheric layers that encapsulates the earth..you know of seven currently, hemisphere, stratosphere, ionosphere, etc. However there was believed to be an additional sphere/thin canopy of water which would also explain the tremendous drop in age length after the flood due to water blocking out the harming effects of the sun, besides the fact of virtually every single group of living people that are alive had some written form (those that were able) account of a global flood..I can literally go through them all..1 Samuel is after the Flood events of Genesis. Also rainbows are refractions and reflections of sunlight in water droplets in the atmosphere- they have been around for as long as there was liquid water on earth and a water cycle- probably not that long after earth formed [about 4.5 billion years ago] and temps were cool enough to allow precipitation. This, as always, is just physical matter doing its thing. Rainbows did not originate with some covenant after a flood [a flood btw which is not supported whatsoever by the geologic or historical evidence, and especially the biological evidence].
Free will is a nonsensical concept but off topic....as for the returning and all that...evidence for literally any of this? That's all that matters, and it's not supported by any evidence.
Split hairs? A benevolent god of the universe issuing commands to wipe out and exterminate infants and children.....what? That's a pretty big deal if you want to analyze these books for the moral framework they present [which is suspiciously exactly what some local middle eastern tribe might come up wih 2500 years ago, and not from some timeless god of the universe].
So your point is essentially: "yeah so what, he ordered deaths of babies and children...but SNAP, babies and children cant go to hell. All good!". Do you honestly not see how bizarre and ridiculous this is. Not all good for the children it seems...if you were one of the children being slaughtered you'd presumably have a larger issue with it. According to this nonsensical stance, there'd be no issue with the killing of children since hey...they dont go to hell after all, snap! [a fantasy world of which there is no evidence]. Oh wait...that would be a horrific crime and at times of war, a war crime.
Free will is a nonsensical concept but off topic....as for the returning and all that...evidence for literally any of this? That's all that matters, and it's not supported by any evidence.
Split hairs? A benevolent god of the universe issuing commands to wipe out and exterminate infants and children.....what? That's a pretty big deal if you want to analyze these books for the moral framework they present [which is suspiciously exactly what some local middle eastern tribe might come up wih 2500 years ago, and not from some timeless god of the universe].
So your point is essentially: "yeah so what, he ordered deaths of babies and children...but SNAP, babies and children cant go to hell. All good!". Do you honestly not see how bizarre and ridiculous this is. Not all good for the children it seems...if you were one of the children being slaughtered you'd presumably have a larger issue with it. According to this nonsensical stance, there'd be no issue with the killing of children since hey...they dont go to hell after all, snap! [a fantasy world of which there is no evidence]. Oh wait...that would be a horrific crime and at times of war, a war crime.
08-08-2022, 09:59 AM
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#63
- Paul Kreul
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Originally Posted By XiangYu⏩
and that was your first concern & question that you decided to post on the MISC while abortion just happens to be the pressing issue it is today..mmkayAre you retarded? Is it so hard to believe that someone might actually read the bible? LOL
It is not a hotel bible I bought it here:
https://www.cbuch.de/schlachter-2000...d-schwarz.html
It is not a hotel bible I bought it here:
https://www.cbuch.de/schlachter-2000...d-schwarz.html
08-08-2022, 10:06 AM
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#64
- Paul Kreul
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
Save your time talking to him, he literally knows nothing, makes absurd posts, then when called out his only rebuttal are ad hominem attacks.This is dialog huh?
I'm asking a legit question. If salvation is what you say it is, then I'd be a fool not to accept.
I'm asking a legit question. If salvation is what you say it is, then I'd be a fool not to accept.
Yes Jesus is God, the same God of the OT, the same God of the Jews, it’s just that Jews don’t except Him as their messiah..however many are starting to, they are called Messianic Jews
08-08-2022, 10:28 AM
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#65
- miscerForLulz
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Originally Posted By Paul
I'm asking because all the old Patriarchs never preached this concept of a trinity or redemption. Moses, Abraham, David, etc all believed in one God and that you are responsible for your own sins (which is stated in the O.T.).Save your time talking to him, he literally knows nothing, makes absurd posts, then when called out his only rebuttal are ad hominem attacks.
Yes Jesus is God, the same God of the OT, the same God of the Jews, it’s just that Jews don’t except Him as their messiah..however many are starting to, they are called Messianic Jews
Yes Jesus is God, the same God of the OT, the same God of the Jews, it’s just that Jews don’t except Him as their messiah..however many are starting to, they are called Messianic Jews
Whereas it seemed to change all of a sudden when the N.T. came.
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
08-08-2022, 10:45 AM
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#66
- crupiea
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- crupiea
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Old testament god is the best. he wasnt in to all this hippy touchy feely love crap.
"To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives. Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an average man. We make ourselves into one or the other."-- Carlos Castaneda
08-08-2022, 10:55 AM
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#67
- Deathstroke
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- Deathstroke
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No god could have ordered it. You don’t know that the Biblical events happened or not. You can argue an all loving god couldn’t have ordered such a thing. But that’s because I sit here on my device comfortably believing so, and explanation-less. It’s because we cannot understand the definition of love. Not dictionary. I mean gods description because love goes deeper than Websters dictionary state. Yea I think it’s real despite being some verses I couldn’t justify. Doesn’t matter if the Bible god Is real then we are commanded to obey him. It’s his way or the highway (to hell). You wouldn’t submit if you 100% believed the Bible to be true? Or would you rebel because his acts dont fit your definition of what a loving god should be.
Sin is a result of disobedience. Good and evil existed before Adam and Eve. He didn’t create satan he created Lucifer. Who disobeyed god. I believe he is the father of lies. Author of sin. Sin truly was brought on by Lucifer. Tempted first humans to disobey god.
Life was given by god snd it’s his to take though. That is just how it is. If you’re really stumped on a verse pray for understanding of it. Search it. But don’t grasp at the straws. Truly pray and search on it . I am imperfect like all and there’s verses I just can’t explain as said but I bet anything the answer would never be “Because god cruel or was just having a bad day and decided to take it out on some innocent babies herp derp”. Everything he does there’s a divine purpose behind it.
Book of Job the oldest book god took everything from
Him even his family. The lord give and taketh away. Such has always been life.
Yes I’m using the Bible to justify the Bible and as proof of god.
Sin is a result of disobedience. Good and evil existed before Adam and Eve. He didn’t create satan he created Lucifer. Who disobeyed god. I believe he is the father of lies. Author of sin. Sin truly was brought on by Lucifer. Tempted first humans to disobey god.
Life was given by god snd it’s his to take though. That is just how it is. If you’re really stumped on a verse pray for understanding of it. Search it. But don’t grasp at the straws. Truly pray and search on it . I am imperfect like all and there’s verses I just can’t explain as said but I bet anything the answer would never be “Because god cruel or was just having a bad day and decided to take it out on some innocent babies herp derp”. Everything he does there’s a divine purpose behind it.
Book of Job the oldest book god took everything from
Him even his family. The lord give and taketh away. Such has always been life.
Yes I’m using the Bible to justify the Bible and as proof of god.
08-08-2022, 11:26 AM
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#68
- XiangYu
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Originally Posted By Paul
Yes. This was my first concern & question.and that was your first concern & question that you decided to post on the MISC while abortion just happens to be the pressing issue it is today..mmkay
And what are you talking about abortion? I have no idea what is going on in USA, I live in Germany and here is nothing going on about abortion.
08-08-2022, 03:29 PM
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#69
Originally Posted By jalundah⏩
Yep just like the Philistines, god said that he couldn't destroy them immediately he would do it later, it gave them a chance to fix their wicked ways.Most of the Bible is not meant to be taken literally.
The purpose of God wanting to destroy the Amalekites was because they were enemies of God, working against him. If you actively work against God, you will be destroyed psychologically in the long run. That’s what the story means. That’s what the entire Bible means. Just because it’s not literal objective history doesn’t mean it’s any less “true”.
The purpose of God wanting to destroy the Amalekites was because they were enemies of God, working against him. If you actively work against God, you will be destroyed psychologically in the long run. That’s what the story means. That’s what the entire Bible means. Just because it’s not literal objective history doesn’t mean it’s any less “true”.
08-08-2022, 03:55 PM
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#70
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Originally Posted By miscerForLulz⏩
It never changed..Jews have always been waiting their Messiah..read Isaiah 53..it’s a perfect description of Jesus..every Jewish Holiday is a representation of Jesus..I'm asking because all the old Patriarchs never preached this concept of a trinity or redemption. Moses, Abraham, David, etc all believed in one God and that you are responsible for your own sins (which is stated in the O.T.).
Whereas it seemed to change all of a sudden when the N.T. came.
Whereas it seemed to change all of a sudden when the N.T. came.
If it’s “One” God..whom is God speaking to in Genesis 1:26?
08-08-2022, 03:56 PM
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#71
- Paul Kreul
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Originally Posted By XiangYu⏩
Uh-huhYes. This was my first concern & question.
And what are you talking about abortion? I have no idea what is going on in USA, I live in Germany and here is nothing going on about abortion.
And what are you talking about abortion? I have no idea what is going on in USA, I live in Germany and here is nothing going on about abortion.
08-08-2022, 04:08 PM
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#72
- lsiberian
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Originally Posted By XiangYu⏩
Genocide is always justified by saying it's God's will or Darwinism(for you atheists). Not surprising the got it in the Old Testament.I started reading the bible some weeks ago for fun.
I am in Book Samuel now and I just read Samuel 15:3 where god orders the death of babies.
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
I never heard any priest tell about this in church service when I was a teenager lol.
Do people just ignore the darker parts and focus on the brighter stuff?
I am in Book Samuel now and I just read Samuel 15:3 where god orders the death of babies.
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
I never heard any priest tell about this in church service when I was a teenager lol.
Do people just ignore the darker parts and focus on the brighter stuff?
08-08-2022, 04:11 PM
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#73
- miscerForLulz
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Originally Posted By Paul
But before even that, what is the oldest manuscript of the O.T.? How can I even believe this was from Moses when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found 1000 years after Moses? So, some guy says Moses said this and that 1000 years later? You see the issue - we have no idea for certainty what the original even said. It's based purely on assumption.It never changed..Jews have always been waiting their Messiah..read Isaiah 53..it’s a perfect description of Jesus..every Jewish Holiday is a representation of Jesus..
If it’s “One” God..whom is God speaking to in Genesis 1:26?
If it’s “One” God..whom is God speaking to in Genesis 1:26?
Even more, the O.T. was not given completely to Moses.
Deuteronomy 34:8-10 (Who wrote this if the 5 books were given to Moses?)
Spoiler!
And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
2:136
Say, ˹O believers,˺ We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us; and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants; what was given to Moses, Jesus, and other prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And to Allah we all submit.
08-08-2022, 04:11 PM
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#74
- lsiberian
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Originally Posted By Paul
I mean if you are writing stories about a person being the messiah wouldn't you also have him do everything in the prophetic texts.It never changed..Jews have always been waiting their Messiah..read Isaiah 53..it’s a perfect description of Jesus..every Jewish Holiday is a representation of Jesus..
If it’s “One” God..whom is God speaking to in Genesis 1:26?
If it’s “One” God..whom is God speaking to in Genesis 1:26?
08-09-2022, 07:20 AM
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#75
- numberguy12
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Originally Posted By Paul
If it even needs to be said, this is all false. You are taking a myth [the genesis flood story], and making up a bizarre, gymnastic-filled explanation for things that dont make sense from the bible such as long-lived humans, which didnt happen. This is not the way to go about understanding earth's history. Sorry, rainbows have been around as long as water has been in the atmosphere for sun to refract through and reflect off of. This did not happen thousands of years ago in a flood [also the earth is not 6000 years old, it is about 4.5 billion years old]. If you are trying to suggest rain has only been around for a few thousand years out of this 4.5 billion year timespan, this is ludicrously false. Rain [thus rainbows] have been around billions of years lol. The genesis flood myth is contradicted by basic science- among other things, what we know about the distribution of life on earth, and evidential record of that life. It is a myth. Wipe-out and renewal was a common theme in ancient mythology....thus the creation of these flood stories [surely some borrowed from each other]. This does not mean they happened or are supported by physical evidence.Yes, I’m aware of what rainbows are & how they are formed. When God flooded the earth, that is when Rainbows first appeared, that is literally the first recording of a rainbow in human history. God flooded the earth by breaking a canopy of water or what we might call another “sphere”/or atmospheric layers that encapsulates the earth..you know of seven currently, hemisphere, stratosphere, ionosphere, etc. However there was believed to be an additional sphere/thin canopy of water which would also explain the tremendous drop in age length after the flood due to water blocking out the harming effects of the sun, besides the fact of virtually every single group of living people that are alive had some written form (those that were able) account of a global flood..I can literally go through them all..
Hemisphere is not a layer of the atmosphere, its half of the sphere of the earth, for example the northern hemisphere. That is not a layer in the atmosphere. Nor was this imaginary canopy of water, there is no evidence of that.
This is all off-topic to the OP post about the god of the bible ordering the murder of children and infants, though, so....
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08-09-2022, 07:23 AM
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#76
- numberguy12
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Originally Posted By Deathstroke⏩
Again, when the OP presents a specific passage that demonstrates outdated morality that many people today find repugnant, post vague defenses like this and 'pray about the passage' I suppose? That wont get you further to understanding why a strange passage like this exists in the bible. If you want to know why it does, it's because this was simply the local moral compass of warring tribes in the middle east 2500 years ago- they likely didnt think much of wiping out enemy tribes, including babies and children.....and these were mere stories being written by man. Ideas of moralities have changed obviously in time and different cultures up until today.No god could have ordered it. You don’t know that the Biblical events happened or not. You can argue an all loving god couldn’t have ordered such a thing. But that’s because I sit here on my device comfortably believing so, and explanation-less. It’s because we cannot understand the definition of love. Not dictionary. I mean gods description because love goes deeper than Websters dictionary state. Yea I think it’s real despite being some verses I couldn’t justify. Doesn’t matter if the Bible god Is real then we are commanded to obey him. It’s his way or the highway to hell. You wouldn’t submit if you 100% believed the Bible to be true? Or would you rebel because his acts dont fit your definition of what a loving god should be.
Sin is a result of disobedience. Good and evil existed before Adam and Eve. He didn’t create satan he created Lucifer. Who disobeyed god. I believe he is the father of lies. Author of sin. Sin truly was brought on by Lucifer. Tempted first humans to disobey god.
Life was given by god snd it’s his to take though. That is just how it is. If you’re really stumped on a verse pray for understanding of it. Search it. But don’t grasp at the straws. Truly pray and search on it . I am imperfect like all and there’s verses I just can’t explain as said but I bet anything the answer would never be “Because god cruel or was just having a bad day and decided to take it out on some innocent babies herp derp”. Everything he does there’s a divine purpose behind it.
Book of Job the oldest book god took everything from
Him even his family. The lord give and taketh away. Such has always been life.
Yes I’m using the Bible to justify the Bible and as proof of god.
Sin is a result of disobedience. Good and evil existed before Adam and Eve. He didn’t create satan he created Lucifer. Who disobeyed god. I believe he is the father of lies. Author of sin. Sin truly was brought on by Lucifer. Tempted first humans to disobey god.
Life was given by god snd it’s his to take though. That is just how it is. If you’re really stumped on a verse pray for understanding of it. Search it. But don’t grasp at the straws. Truly pray and search on it . I am imperfect like all and there’s verses I just can’t explain as said but I bet anything the answer would never be “Because god cruel or was just having a bad day and decided to take it out on some innocent babies herp derp”. Everything he does there’s a divine purpose behind it.
Book of Job the oldest book god took everything from
Him even his family. The lord give and taketh away. Such has always been life.
Yes I’m using the Bible to justify the Bible and as proof of god.
This isnt grasping at straws, ordering the killing of babies and children is a pretty damn big issue if one is trying to analyze the morality of God in the biblical texts. [this is all within-story, nothing about God is actually evidenced].
Adam and Eve as described in the bible do not exist, there was not first pair of humans created from scratch, that contradicts basic science. It would help if you prefaced most of the statements in the above post with 'within the story......such and such happened before Adam and Eve', since we are not talking about historical events.
One thing is definitely sure: people like Deathstroke, Paul, would be singing a different tune if it was God ordering their slaughter.
Originally Posted By crupiea⏩
You wouldnt be saying this if you were a 'witch' being burned at the stake, a slave beat with rods, killed by stoning for doing work on a Sunday, or an infant Amalekite [a tribe which, again, historical evidence doesnt support].Old testament god is the best. he wasnt in to all this hippy touchy feely love crap.
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