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UK national healthcare system in crisis- what the heck is going on?
02-08-2023, 09:59 AM
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#61
- TheJimmyRustler
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I can't find a stat for that anywhere, got a source to back this up? And does it then track treatment rates thereafter?Re read what I wrote. Let me spell it out for you; the NHS decreased the number of patients it was capable of seeing by 25%.
02-08-2023, 10:29 AM
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#62
Originally Posted By TheJimmyRustler⏩
I just did a quick search to see if the reference I made is available online. Look at the sources of the hits. The UK government and NHS advocates dominate the searches. This is by design. No government or bureaucrat will publish data that contradicts their agenda, control, or compromises their career. They are also likely censoring anything that contradicts the narrative. This is why I read books more than I read the internet. The internet is controlled information. You are getting all of your information from people who don’t want to see the NHS abolished, so they publish desirable stats, information, and propaganda.I can't find a stat for that anywhere, got a source to back this up? And does it then track treatment rates thereafter?
Example of the GDP argument. You have to know what to look for; you get what you pay for, and Americans WANT convenience, privacy, and shorter wait times. Switzerland gets what they pay for; a death panel and longer wait times.
The other statistics were a reference to economist Milton Friedman in a couple of his books, Free to Choose and Capitalism and Freedom. These two economists have analyzed the before and after of policy changes. Sowell actually left the dept of labor when he discovered they were ignoring bad outcomes, deciding the system was set up to work in its own interests, which had worse outcomes than private interests. Few economists analyze the economy this way. Instead they just see the economy as 1s and 0s instead of taking in to account individual decisions and what people really want and need.
As I said earlier, what’s better, letting one person decide for the whole, or letting the whole sort it out and decide for themselves? That’s the difference between capitalism and socialism/fascism. We spend more, because we get a WHOLE lot more.
Edit; some thing I forgot to add, is that socialist healthcare systems have very specific ways of documenting outcomes. Again, it is in their best interest to show data that supports the system. For example, if the healthcare system has a death panel, and it deems that patient ineligible for care, they do not include that bad outcome in their data!! For this reason, the US has the most accurate and consistent data collection of any country in the world. America will appear to have worse outcomes relative to the rest of the world as a result of this. Culture also plays a role. In the US, we have groups of individuals who do not take care of themselves, or non-compliant with health care, and even non-compliant in there, pregnancy care. The US does not discriminate against that data, either, whereas other countries do. Again, if a person is non-compliant in their care, a socialist country will say “they were not part of the healthcare system, therefore, we will not count this against ourselves.” that’s the difference between government, trying to save their jobs, versus physicians, trying to save their patients.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-08-2023, 11:00 AM
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#63
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I see.
So, not able to find a source (and still begs the question of whether the initial one takes into consideration the nature of when the NHS was put into practice, ie directly after a war. It wouldn't surprise me if patient numbers were reduced due to an influx of serious cases of everything from malnourishment to wartime injuries - makes sense to me for treatment to take longer once the entire nation gets access to it vs only now being something the rich can afford and that people avoid if they can help it).
And to top it off, another market-fulled tangent about the evils of public healthcare; forgive me, but when you talk about the evils of the NHS and how it's been killing us since the 30's - without having any proof and ignoring the past dozen years of purposeful Tory mismanagement - nobody but the people already in your camp pays it much notice.
So, not able to find a source (and still begs the question of whether the initial one takes into consideration the nature of when the NHS was put into practice, ie directly after a war. It wouldn't surprise me if patient numbers were reduced due to an influx of serious cases of everything from malnourishment to wartime injuries - makes sense to me for treatment to take longer once the entire nation gets access to it vs only now being something the rich can afford and that people avoid if they can help it).
And to top it off, another market-fulled tangent about the evils of public healthcare; forgive me, but when you talk about the evils of the NHS and how it's been killing us since the 30's - without having any proof and ignoring the past dozen years of purposeful Tory mismanagement - nobody but the people already in your camp pays it much notice.
02-08-2023, 11:02 AM
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#64
Originally Posted By TheJimmyRustler⏩
I edited my reply to add more information. Read the last paragraph. They use different metrics to improve the outcome numbers. Death panels create worse outcomes, but they don’t document those in the same category purposely.I see.
So, not able to find a source (and still begs the question of whether the initial one takes into consideration the nature of when the NHS was put into practice, ie directly after a war. It wouldn't surprise me if patient numbers were reduced due to an influx of serious cases of everything from malnourishment to wartime injuries - makes sense to me for treatment to take longer once the entire nation gets access to it vs only now being something the rich can afford and that people avoid if they can help it).
And to top it off, another market-fulled tangent about the evils of public healthcare; forgive me, but when you talk about the evils of the NHS and how it's been killing us since the 30's - without having any proof and ignoring the past dozen years of purposeful Tory mismanagement - nobody but the people already in your camp pays it much notice.
So, not able to find a source (and still begs the question of whether the initial one takes into consideration the nature of when the NHS was put into practice, ie directly after a war. It wouldn't surprise me if patient numbers were reduced due to an influx of serious cases of everything from malnourishment to wartime injuries - makes sense to me for treatment to take longer once the entire nation gets access to it vs only now being something the rich can afford and that people avoid if they can help it).
And to top it off, another market-fulled tangent about the evils of public healthcare; forgive me, but when you talk about the evils of the NHS and how it's been killing us since the 30's - without having any proof and ignoring the past dozen years of purposeful Tory mismanagement - nobody but the people already in your camp pays it much notice.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-08-2023, 07:47 PM
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#65
Originally Posted By OPGenesis⏩
"Not A Sustainable Model": AZ Hospital 'On Brink Of Collapse' After Spending $20 Million On MigrantsKind of shocked OP is making such a low IQ argument by making this a argument against public healthcare to support his fetish of privatization.
This clearly has to do with infrastructure not being capable of not being able high such augmentations with rapid aging populationand massive, and I mean massive, immigration expansion.
I just had kidney stone surgery. Went to two ER’s before the surgery for pain management.
Both ER’s were over capacity. One made visitors leave. Some people were waiting days to be seen in the ER. My average wait was around 13 hours.
Who were the main culprits in the ER. Boomers, fat fuks andillegals. Covid has put a massive strain on the system as well, because now when somebody gets the flu they’re anxiety riddled that they’re about to die from Covid.
Very nuanced issue, and very low IQ take from OP.
The healthcare system in America is a joke.
This clearly has to do with infrastructure not being capable of not being able high such augmentations with rapid aging populationand massive, and I mean massive, immigration expansion.
I just had kidney stone surgery. Went to two ER’s before the surgery for pain management.
Both ER’s were over capacity. One made visitors leave. Some people were waiting days to be seen in the ER. My average wait was around 13 hours.
Who were the main culprits in the ER. Boomers, fat fuks andillegals. Covid has put a massive strain on the system as well, because now when somebody gets the flu they’re anxiety riddled that they’re about to die from Covid.
Very nuanced issue, and very low IQ take from OP.
The healthcare system in America is a joke.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...llion-migrants
I'd suspect this is pretty prevalent everywhere with high counts of invaders. Interesting this story comes up after my reference...
In regards to the UK:
White Renegade of the Year — 2022
https://www.unz.com/ghood/white-rene...the-year-2022/
According to Labour insider Andrew Neather, leftists engineered more immigration to change the country and “rub the Right’s nose in diversity.” What was Boris Johnson’s excuse? Immigration fell in 2020, though this was because of COVID-19 and Brexit. However, it then surged. From 2019 to May 2022, visas issued to Indians surged by 164 percent, Pakistanis by 255 percent, and Nigerians by 415 percent. Under Boris Johnson, immigration policy was arguably worse than it was under Tony Blair.
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02-08-2023, 08:24 PM
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#66
Talked to my wife today about the stats and it appears that 90% of these “COVID” patients are getting negative results and/or have minor signs and symptoms and getting discharged. The COVID counts must be coming from the CC (chief complaints), which aren’t an accurate metric to use, instead of the diagnosis and treatment.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-08-2023, 09:08 PM
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#67
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Originally Posted By TheJimmyRustler⏩
If, at this point, you still need proof socialism doesnt work Im just going to call you a retardI see.
So, not able to find a source (and still begs the question of whether the initial one takes into consideration the nature of when the NHS was put into practice, ie directly after a war. It wouldn't surprise me if patient numbers were reduced due to an influx of serious cases of everything from malnourishment to wartime injuries - makes sense to me for treatment to take longer once the entire nation gets access to it vs only now being something the rich can afford and that people avoid if they can help it).
And to top it off, another market-fulled tangent about the evils of public healthcare; forgive me, but when you talk about the evils of the NHS and how it's been killing us since the 30's - without having any proof and ignoring the past dozen years of purposeful Tory mismanagement - nobody but the people already in your camp pays it much notice.
So, not able to find a source (and still begs the question of whether the initial one takes into consideration the nature of when the NHS was put into practice, ie directly after a war. It wouldn't surprise me if patient numbers were reduced due to an influx of serious cases of everything from malnourishment to wartime injuries - makes sense to me for treatment to take longer once the entire nation gets access to it vs only now being something the rich can afford and that people avoid if they can help it).
And to top it off, another market-fulled tangent about the evils of public healthcare; forgive me, but when you talk about the evils of the NHS and how it's been killing us since the 30's - without having any proof and ignoring the past dozen years of purposeful Tory mismanagement - nobody but the people already in your camp pays it much notice.
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
02-09-2023, 12:12 AM
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#68
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
So when challenged to present stats, you wheel in your ideological push cart, dump it on the floor, and then proceed to say "I can't find the stats that support my claim, but they exist, and the reason I can't find them is because they're hiding them from me".I just did a quick search to see if the reference I made is available online. Look at the sources of the hits. The UK government and NHS advocates dominate the searches. This is by design. No government or bureaucrat will publish data that contradicts their agenda, control, or compromises their career. They are also likely censoring anything that contradicts the narrative. This is why I read books more than I read the internet. The internet is controlled information. You are getting all of your information from people who don’t want to see the NHS abolished, so they publish desirable stats, information, and propaganda.
Example of the GDP argument. You have to know what to look for; you get what you pay for, and Americans WANT convenience, privacy, and shorter wait times. Switzerland gets what they pay for; a death panel and longer wait times.
The other statistics were a reference to economist Milton Friedman in a couple of his books, Free to Choose and Capitalism and Freedom. These two economists have analyzed the before and after of policy changes. Sowell actually left the dept of labor when he discovered they were ignoring bad outcomes, deciding the system was set up to work in its own interests, which had worse outcomes than private interests. Few economists analyze the economy this way. Instead they just see the economy as 1s and 0s instead of taking in to account individual decisions and what people really want and need.
As I said earlier, what’s better, letting one person decide for the whole, or letting the whole sort it out and decide for themselves? That’s the difference between capitalism and socialism/fascism. We spend more, because we get a WHOLE lot more.
Edit; some thing I forgot to add, is that socialist healthcare systems have very specific ways of documenting outcomes. Again, it is in their best interest to show data that supports the system. For example, if the healthcare system has a death panel, and it deems that patient ineligible for care, they do not include that bad outcome in their data!! For this reason, the US has the most accurate and consistent data collection of any country in the world. America will appear to have worse outcomes relative to the rest of the world as a result of this. Culture also plays a role. In the US, we have groups of individuals who do not take care of themselves, or non-compliant with health care, and even non-compliant in there, pregnancy care. The US does not discriminate against that data, either, whereas other countries do. Again, if a person is non-compliant in their care, a socialist country will say “they were not part of the healthcare system, therefore, we will not count this against ourselves.” that’s the difference between government, trying to save their jobs, versus physicians, trying to save their patients.
Example of the GDP argument. You have to know what to look for; you get what you pay for, and Americans WANT convenience, privacy, and shorter wait times. Switzerland gets what they pay for; a death panel and longer wait times.
The other statistics were a reference to economist Milton Friedman in a couple of his books, Free to Choose and Capitalism and Freedom. These two economists have analyzed the before and after of policy changes. Sowell actually left the dept of labor when he discovered they were ignoring bad outcomes, deciding the system was set up to work in its own interests, which had worse outcomes than private interests. Few economists analyze the economy this way. Instead they just see the economy as 1s and 0s instead of taking in to account individual decisions and what people really want and need.
As I said earlier, what’s better, letting one person decide for the whole, or letting the whole sort it out and decide for themselves? That’s the difference between capitalism and socialism/fascism. We spend more, because we get a WHOLE lot more.
Edit; some thing I forgot to add, is that socialist healthcare systems have very specific ways of documenting outcomes. Again, it is in their best interest to show data that supports the system. For example, if the healthcare system has a death panel, and it deems that patient ineligible for care, they do not include that bad outcome in their data!! For this reason, the US has the most accurate and consistent data collection of any country in the world. America will appear to have worse outcomes relative to the rest of the world as a result of this. Culture also plays a role. In the US, we have groups of individuals who do not take care of themselves, or non-compliant with health care, and even non-compliant in there, pregnancy care. The US does not discriminate against that data, either, whereas other countries do. Again, if a person is non-compliant in their care, a socialist country will say “they were not part of the healthcare system, therefore, we will not count this against ourselves.” that’s the difference between government, trying to save their jobs, versus physicians, trying to save their patients.
The NHS, it's funding, and it's outcomes have been highly regulated, scrutinised and reported on for alongtime. If they exist, the stats are out there.
My personal pronouns are: Don't talk to me/Fck off
02-11-2023, 01:48 PM
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#69
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This probably doesn't help
Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest debts, owing £6.1million. Indian nationals owe £3.1million, Romanians £2.5million, Jamaicans £2.2million and Americans £2million
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...NHS-bills.html
Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest debts, owing £6.1million. Indian nationals owe £3.1million, Romanians £2.5million, Jamaicans £2.2million and Americans £2million
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...NHS-bills.html
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02-11-2023, 01:58 PM
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#70
Originally Posted By freeheeler⏩
That’s the result of socialist medicine. Its also one of the reasons the cost of medicine has skyrocketed here in the states too. Licensing, patents, welfare…it all drives costs through the roof. Sure, private beds and short wait times cost more, but again, when the government only pays 10 cents on the dollar, and illegals go to the hospital for free healthcare, that forces others to pay more. Keep in mind, if you are a facility, received any federal funding at all, its illegal turn away patients for inability to pay. If you cannot turn away patients by law, then it is not a capitalist system, it’s socialist. This probably doesn't help
Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest debts, owing £6.1million. Indian nationals owe £3.1million, Romanians £2.5million, Jamaicans £2.2million and Americans £2million
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...NHS-bills.html
Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest debts, owing £6.1million. Indian nationals owe £3.1million, Romanians £2.5million, Jamaicans £2.2million and Americans £2million
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...NHS-bills.html
Essentially what I’m saying is, it’s still the fault of the NHS.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-11-2023, 02:02 PM
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#71
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Originally Posted By Ramoneb87⏩
Govt backtracked on nhs mandatory jabs at the last minute but people are leaving because its hell to work there rnCould it be health care workers who opted to resign, retire early, be fired, rather than take the jab. In the united states, they say it was less than 1% fired for non compliance, but I am skeptical of that figure
retired from powerlifting, retired from the misc
02-11-2023, 02:23 PM
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#72
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Are resident marxists still trying to convince themselves that socialism isnt a disaster?
LMAO
LMAO
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
02-12-2023, 09:28 AM
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#73
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
So basically what you're saying is the workers need to be able to control the means of production, and socialism is stopping them from doing so?All it took was a crisis for the whole thing to come crashing down. Government systems are not flexible, whereas, in a free market, the system is more capable of adapting, because it’s more autonomous. Autonomy comes from physicians and nurses, not administrators. It actually restricts autonomy because it sets more rules and regulations. Now imagine the population, growing and the healthcare system, not keeping up because it has to continue growing its administration out of proportion. Then imagine no flexibility, lack of medical staff, and a huge influx of patients, all while being micromanaged and restricted on how they can adapt.
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02-12-2023, 10:08 AM
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#74
Originally Posted By dakensta⏩
No.So basically what you're saying is the workers need to be able to control the means of production, and socialism is stopping them from doing so?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-12-2023, 10:54 AM
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#75
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
The workers — doctors and nurses and auxiliary staff — are currently unable to provide a good product, efficient healthcare, because they are not in control of how they achieve this end. You say they need "autonomy".You think they would be able to produce a better product if they were not constrained by "higher up" people influencing how they go about producing the product. The product being good, efficient healthcare. These "higher up" people are controlling the means of production, and you think if the workers were able to decide how they go about their business themselves as they choose, i.e. control the means of production, this would improve the quality and efficiency of healthcare provided. Have I got anything wrong so far?No.
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02-12-2023, 11:08 AM
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#76
Originally Posted By dakensta⏩
No.The workers — doctors and nurses and auxiliary staff — are currently unable to provide a good product, efficient healthcare, because they are not in control of how they achieve this end. You say they need "autonomy".You think they would be able to produce a better product if they were not constrained by "higher up" people influencing how they go about producing the product. The product being good, efficient healthcare. These "higher up" people are controlling the means of production, and you think if the workers were able to decide how they go about their business themselves as they choose, i.e. control the means of production, this would improve the quality and efficiency of healthcare provided. Have I got anything wrong so far?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-12-2023, 11:20 AM
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#77
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Not surprised at all when every emergency room is clogged by obese fat fuks, illegal alien vermin cockroaches, breeders, and extremely old pricks who think they're entitled to be immortal.
At one point you have to stop and tell these bastards to phuck off, point blank.
Fatsos - put your cheetos down and hit the gym
Illegals - go back to your home country
Breeders - you already have 3 kids so use condom
Geezers - you're 95 it's time to see your maker
Unfortunately bleeding heart liberal retards have no guts to do any of those, and this is why a socialized healthcare will continue to be a catastrophic failure. There are way too many selfish moocher parasites in this world to be soft about it.
At one point you have to stop and tell these bastards to phuck off, point blank.
Fatsos - put your cheetos down and hit the gym
Illegals - go back to your home country
Breeders - you already have 3 kids so use condom
Geezers - you're 95 it's time to see your maker
Unfortunately bleeding heart liberal retards have no guts to do any of those, and this is why a socialized healthcare will continue to be a catastrophic failure. There are way too many selfish moocher parasites in this world to be soft about it.
02-12-2023, 11:28 AM
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#78
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Originally Posted By TrueTruth⏩
That's what I mean, why should I pay for their healthcare???Not surprised at all when every emergency room is clogged by obese fat fuks, illegal alien vermin cockroaches, breeders, and extremely old pricks who think they're entitled to be immortal.
At one point you have to stop and tell these bastards to phuck off, point blank.
Fatsos - put your cheetos down and hit the gym
Illegals - go back to your home country
Breeders - you already have 3 kids so use condom
Geezers - you're 95 it's time to see your maker
Unfortunately bleeding heart liberal retards have no guts to do any of those, and this is why a socialized healthcare will continue to be a catastrophic failure. There are way too many selfish moocher parasites in this world to be soft about it.
At one point you have to stop and tell these bastards to phuck off, point blank.
Fatsos - put your cheetos down and hit the gym
Illegals - go back to your home country
Breeders - you already have 3 kids so use condom
Geezers - you're 95 it's time to see your maker
Unfortunately bleeding heart liberal retards have no guts to do any of those, and this is why a socialized healthcare will continue to be a catastrophic failure. There are way too many selfish moocher parasites in this world to be soft about it.
02-12-2023, 12:29 PM
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#79
02-12-2023, 12:46 PM
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#80
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Originally Posted By dakensta⏩
We had something like that before the government got so involved in healthcare. Nurses would set up their own practices to treat basic ailments and what not that you don't really need a doctor for. Doctors then lobbied the government to require a medical license for that sort of thing because the nurses were cutting into their profits.Excellent.
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02-12-2023, 12:46 PM
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#81
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You are kinda tone deaf because obviously this isn't just to do with capitalism IF illegal immigration is a huge factor is all of this. which how can it not be.Three questions that always stumps anti capitalists;
1. At what cost?
2. Compared to what?
3. Who gets to decide?
So you want cheap healthcare? Ok, what are you willing to sacrifice to get it? Do you believe that cheap, top notch, efficient healthcare is possible? If so, then start a healthcare system and do it. No? Then what makes you believe you can do it better, or that it CAN be done better?
It’s absolute arrogance to think that an individual has a solution to ultra complicated process for an entire society. They simultaneously demand perfection from something that will never be perfect.
It’s easier to point out someone’s/something’s flaws than it is to create an actual solution.
1. At what cost?
2. Compared to what?
3. Who gets to decide?
So you want cheap healthcare? Ok, what are you willing to sacrifice to get it? Do you believe that cheap, top notch, efficient healthcare is possible? If so, then start a healthcare system and do it. No? Then what makes you believe you can do it better, or that it CAN be done better?
It’s absolute arrogance to think that an individual has a solution to ultra complicated process for an entire society. They simultaneously demand perfection from something that will never be perfect.
It’s easier to point out someone’s/something’s flaws than it is to create an actual solution.
Just here to defend capitalism makes you a sheep just like the other side.
And, id like to point out that the american health system is soooo much for profit over actual health care, that it doesn't help your argument here at all.
-im a capitalist BUT, america isn't even purely capitalist, not even close, especially in areas like health care which is bogged down by government bureaucracy's
02-12-2023, 12:52 PM
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#82
Originally Posted By dakensta⏩
The opposite of excellent. You’ve projected everything and it’s clear that you don’t understand. You’re trying to corner me in to Marxist ideology; labor has the highest value, therefore, labor should control everything.Excellent.
The problem is, you are attempting to interpret the silent parts with what you believe. That is the opposite of an open mind. Perhaps it would be better to approach this from the perspective that I have years of medical training and experience, have worked in the system, been a patient in the system many times, and I have a pretty good understanding of economics and history of the topic. Having the experience and knowledge of both of these areas have helped me understand the relationship much better.
Instead, you come at it like you know more than I do, and that I have nothing to offer except for ideological nonsense. Again, your replies are a projection, and everything is set up. You also ignored several points to make strawman arguments, which is a sign you only read my post to find what was easiest to argue, instead of trying to understand the entire post.
Example, I never said there should be no administrators. I never said that the “labor“ should be making all of the decisions for a business.
The moment you respond like this, is the moment I know that you are not willing to have a discussion, or to ask questions to better understand what I’m saying. Instead, you are just out to prove me wrong because you don’t agree.
Its quite arrogant, and arrogant people cannot be reasoned with
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-12-2023, 01:00 PM
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#83
- bicmane789
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- bicmane789
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
you are the guy mentioning capitalism and socialism in this thread like it really means anything.The opposite of excellent. You’ve projected everything and it’s clear that you don’t understand. You’re trying to corner me in to Marxist ideology; labor has the highest value, therefore, labor should control everything.
The problem is, you are attempting to interpret the silent parts with what you believe. That is the opposite of an open mind. Perhaps it would be better to approach this from the perspective that I have years of medical training and experience, have worked in the system, been a patient in the system many times, and I have a pretty good understanding of economics and history of the topic. Having the experience and knowledge of both of these areas have helped me understand the relationship much better.
Instead, you come at it like you know more than I do, and that I have nothing to offer except for ideological nonsense. Again, your replies are a projection, and everything is set up. You also ignored several points to make strawman arguments, which is a sign you only read my post to find what was easiest to argue, instead of trying to understand the entire post.
Example, I never said there should be no administrators. I never said that the “labor“ should be making all of the decisions for a business.
The moment you respond like this, is the moment I know that you are not willing to have a discussion, or to ask questions to better understand what I’m saying. Instead, you are just out to prove me wrong because you don’t agree.
Its quite arrogant, and arrogant people cannot be reasoned with
The problem is, you are attempting to interpret the silent parts with what you believe. That is the opposite of an open mind. Perhaps it would be better to approach this from the perspective that I have years of medical training and experience, have worked in the system, been a patient in the system many times, and I have a pretty good understanding of economics and history of the topic. Having the experience and knowledge of both of these areas have helped me understand the relationship much better.
Instead, you come at it like you know more than I do, and that I have nothing to offer except for ideological nonsense. Again, your replies are a projection, and everything is set up. You also ignored several points to make strawman arguments, which is a sign you only read my post to find what was easiest to argue, instead of trying to understand the entire post.
Example, I never said there should be no administrators. I never said that the “labor“ should be making all of the decisions for a business.
The moment you respond like this, is the moment I know that you are not willing to have a discussion, or to ask questions to better understand what I’m saying. Instead, you are just out to prove me wrong because you don’t agree.
Its quite arrogant, and arrogant people cannot be reasoned with
you are kinda naive but think you are really smart lol.
you actually think us healthcare is 'capitalist' lol
02-12-2023, 01:31 PM
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#84
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Nope. You don't know what I believe. I'm not projecting anything. I am criticising you for claiming that socialism is the cause of the collapse of the NHS, while what you're suggesting would improve it is more akin to socialism than the current model.The opposite of excellent. You’ve projected everything and it’s clear that you don’t understand. You’re trying to corner me in to Marxist ideology; labor has the highest value, therefore, labor should control everything.
The problem is, you are attempting to interpret the silent parts with what you believe. That is the opposite of an open mind.
The problem is, you are attempting to interpret the silent parts with what you believe. That is the opposite of an open mind.
GO LOCAL SPORTSBALL TEAM
*** Pureblood Master Race ***
*** Official Misc Photography Crew ***
02-12-2023, 01:51 PM
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#85
- Stizzel
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- Stizzel
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Originally Posted By bicmane789⏩
Uh, a truly capitalist system would mean no one is forced to pay for illegals, or hire them, or subsidize them, or even allow them onto your property, all of which would be private.You are kinda tone deaf because obviously this isn't just to do with capitalism IF illegal immigration is a huge factor is all of this. which how can it not be.
Just here to defend capitalism makes you a sheep just like the other side.
And, id like to point out that the american health system is soooo much for profit over actual health care, that it doesn't help your argument here at all.
-im a capitalist BUT, america isn't even purely capitalist, not even close, especially in areas like health care which is bogged down by government bureaucracy's
Just here to defend capitalism makes you a sheep just like the other side.
And, id like to point out that the american health system is soooo much for profit over actual health care, that it doesn't help your argument here at all.
-im a capitalist BUT, america isn't even purely capitalist, not even close, especially in areas like health care which is bogged down by government bureaucracy's
“It’s the bill of rights, not the bill of requests. Rights are not up for negotiations.” Thomas Massie, MAGA enemy #1
02-12-2023, 03:20 PM
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#86
Originally Posted By dakensta⏩
Wrong again. You latched on to one thing and ran with it; Autonomy = socialism. Just lol at the mental gymnastics to get to that.Nope. You don't know what I believe. I'm not projecting anything. I am criticising you for claiming that socialism is the cause of the collapse of the NHS, while what you're suggesting would improve it is more akin to socialism than the current model.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
02-13-2023, 06:23 PM
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#87
- freeheeler
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- freeheeler
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Why would you continue to allow illegals to flock into your country and cost up to £7m a day in hotels give them free health care and allow them to rape 15 yr old teenagers
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hool-Kent.html
And allow Albanians and Nigerians to come and use your health system and not pay for it when locals can't even see a doctor. Is this the diversity thing that liberal want to teach children in schools???
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ion-grows.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hool-Kent.html
And allow Albanians and Nigerians to come and use your health system and not pay for it when locals can't even see a doctor. Is this the diversity thing that liberal want to teach children in schools???
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ion-grows.html
The number of patients per fully qualified GP has rocketed to its highest-ever level, NHS figures reveal.
There are now an average of 2,273 people scrambling for appointments with each family doctor – an increase of 15 per cent in five years.
A growing population and shrinking workforce mean the staffing crisis has worsened in all but one of the 106 health districts in England
There are now an average of 2,273 people scrambling for appointments with each family doctor – an increase of 15 per cent in five years.
A growing population and shrinking workforce mean the staffing crisis has worsened in all but one of the 106 health districts in England
Scubastevo :-What percentage of women have STDs? (serious) If I just wanted to go bareback with any girl that I could get with, what are my chances of ending up bed ridden with STDs?
02-15-2023, 03:50 AM
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#88
- Mike86er
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- Mike86er
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Originally Posted By Weightaholic⏩
Funding for the NHS has increased, even in real termsConservative governments in the UK have gutted the NHS, and now they're pointing at it saying "see, it doesn't work!" Neoliberal playbook 101.
Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!
Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!
Originally Posted By scamander⏩
You get a referral from your doctor for mental health services. You can also be referred by people like the police (say, following an incident) or a housing association. There are still specialised mental health services which deal with such. They're staffed with specialised doctors, psychologists, mental health nurses etc.The Tories cut a lot of the supporting facilities (e.g. mental health). These were often vital in keeping patients with specific demands and resource needs out of the main hospital 'traffic'.
They've reduced healthcare to a single channel. Hence the massive backlogs and chokepoints. Amublances and paramedics aren't out picking up their regular type on incidents - instead they are backfilling for those specialised units which were cut.
Imagine the local council cutting the fire dept and stating that the police now have to deal with fires. Now imagine how quickly the response time for the police would be to an average incident.
They've reduced healthcare to a single channel. Hence the massive backlogs and chokepoints. Amublances and paramedics aren't out picking up their regular type on incidents - instead they are backfilling for those specialised units which were cut.
Imagine the local council cutting the fire dept and stating that the police now have to deal with fires. Now imagine how quickly the response time for the police would be to an average incident.
Many of these are short-staffed but that's because they have trouble filling the roles. But that's a separate issue. Nothing to do with budget or lack of will.
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