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Forum » Texas plan to put chaplains in public schools is latest move to inject Christianity
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Thread: Texas plan to put chaplains in public schools is latest move to inject Christianity

post 1682508773 05-11-2023, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Ideas mean nothing if you can't recognize pattern behavior and know what causes good and evil. People are generally good when left alone. Your complaint is about the reaction when it should be about the cause. In other words, you are trying to cure a symptom while ignoring the disease. There is only one time than an extremist right rose up, and it was in reaction to the far left. We have one example. Other examples would include oppressed groups rising up against they're supposed oppressor. In other words, if the left overthrows the right, the right will overthrow the left again, it's only a matter of time

If rule of law was reestablished, you would see conservatives all but disappear again. They are more worried about their personal lives than they are coercing their neighbor through political means.
I agree with a lot of what you've said.

The issue I take with both sides is the hypocrisy of banning things they don't like and fighting to the death to not ban things they do like. Both the political right and left are authoritarian.
I support individual freedom and don't want or need the State to impose the views, held by the government of the day, on my life.
post 1682509073 05-11-2023, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I agree with a lot of what you've said.

The issue I take with both sides is the hypocrisy of banning things they don't like and fighting to the death to not ban things they do like. Both the political right and left are authoritarian.
I support individual freedom and don't want or need the State to impose the views, held by the government of the day, on my life.
There is no individual freedoms with the left. Leftism is collectivism, while conservatism/patriotism is individualism. These are irreconcilable differences. If morale and values are a relative scale, the balance is deeply tilted towards the left. Our country has moved left since it's inception, not right. This is where our country went wrong. We are transitioning into a post modern society. The leftist/marxist revolution has already succeeded.

There is only one way for us to go at this point, and that is back to the right. There is no more "middle ground".
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682509133 05-11-2023, 12:40 PM
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Better get that chaplain out of that school and put a tranny with a sock on their junk in there instead. Texans when will they learn.
post 1682509413 05-11-2023, 12:43 PM
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A lot of people don't know this entire quote, but it speaks on the truth of what will happen. "A nation divided cannot stand. It must become all of one thing or all of another" Abraham Lincoln

This means that as long as the Democrats and left keep dividing the nation, we will become an unstable society in a very long Civil War. We will become something completely different and unintended by either
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682509713 05-11-2023, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
There is no individual freedoms with the left. Leftism is collectivism, while conservatism/patriotism is individualism. These are irreconcilable differences. If morale and values are a relative scale, the balance is deeply tilted towards the left. Our country has moved left since it's inception, not right. This is where our country went wrong. We are transitioning into a post modern society. The leftist/marxist revolution has already succeeded.

There is only one way for us to go at this point, and that is back to the right. There is no more "middle ground".
This is inherently false.
post 1682509803 05-11-2023, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
This is inherently false.
What is false about it?

What historical sources are you using for your information?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682509813 05-11-2023, 12:48 PM
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Maybe they could have chaplains of various faiths rotate through the schools...

Not sure how they could otherwise get around the establishment clause.
post 1682509973 05-11-2023, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By GreatOldOne⏩
Maybe they could have chaplains of various faiths rotate through the schools...

Not sure how they could otherwise get around the establishment clause.
This would not work. Not all faiths have the same values. There would be moral, ethical, and constitutional considerations. Not all religious beliefs align with the constitution, laws, ethics and otherwise. .
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682510273 05-11-2023, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
This would not work. Not all faiths have the same values. There would be moral, ethical, and constitutional considerations. Not all religious beliefs align with the constitution, laws, ethics and otherwise. .
Don't they have chaplains of various faiths in the military?

...anyway, if they pick a certain faith only then eventually someone will take it apart due to the establishment clause.

The secular position can be represented by a regular school counselor.
post 1682511803 05-11-2023, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
What is false about it?

What historical sources are you using for your information?
"There is no individual freedom on the left".

Opinion, not fact, false by definition.
post 1682511903 05-11-2023, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
This would not work. Not all faiths have the same values. There would be moral, ethical, and constitutional considerations. Not all religious beliefs align with the constitution, laws, ethics and otherwise. .
Which is a violation of not prioritizing one religion over others.
post 1682511943 05-11-2023, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted By GreatOldOne⏩
Don't they have chaplains of various faiths in the military?

...anyway, if they pick a certain faith only then eventually someone will take it apart due to the establishment clause.

The secular position can be represented by a regular school counselor.
Think of it like this; religion also sets the standards of how men should act in the military, both on and off of the battlefield. Few religions get it so right when dealing with moral dilemmas. The military and central government understood that these values do well in keeping the peace, but for also being ferocious in the face of evil. For the strength to make the ultimate sacrifice if the time comes.

What we do know is that Christianity and God does this and with great effect. The Marxist understands this too. This is why the Marxist must beat the Christian, because he is both a strong individual and difficult to coerce. What Marxism requires is collectivism; "doing it because everyone else is doing it". So what did they do in the military under the Democrats? They removed Christianity, and they replaced it with critical race theory. This will produce a military it does not have the strength of character, nor the world, to fight is ferociously into sacrifice themselves. The large number of the military quite possibly could literally cower in fear.

Many young men going into the military who had no faith previously, become Christian in the military. Not from indoctrination, but out of necessity and survival.

"There is no atheist when you're laying in a fox hole."

Morality is based on what you use as a measuring stick. Christianity sets the relative standards very high, higher than any other group in the world. That is a fact. Imagine how low you have to stoop to want to destroy Christianity.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682511993 05-11-2023, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Opinion, not fact,
That's practically every post of yours.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
false by definition.
Elaborate.
post 1682512123 05-11-2023, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Elaborate.
Is liberalism on the left?
post 1682512343 05-11-2023, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Is liberalism on the left?
Is it, currently?
post 1682512563 05-11-2023, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Think of it like this; religion also sets the standards of how men should act in the military, both on and off of the battlefield. Few religions get it so right when dealing with moral dilemmas. The military and central government understood that these values do well in keeping the peace, but for also being ferocious in the face of evil. For the strength to make the ultimate sacrifice if the time comes.

What we do know is that Christianity and God does this and with great effect. The Marxist understands this too. This is why the Marxist must beat the Christian, because he is both a strong individual and difficult to coerce. What Marxism requires is collectivism; "doing it because everyone else is doing it". So what did they do in the military under the Democrats? They removed Christianity, and they replaced it with critical race theory. This will produce a military it does not have the strength of character, nor the world, to fight is ferociously into sacrifice themselves. The large number of the military quite possibly could literally cower in fear.

Many young men going into the military who had no faith previously, become Christian in the military. Not from indoctrination, but out of necessity and survival.

"There is no atheist when you're laying in a fox hole."

Morality is based on what you use as a measuring stick. Christianity sets the relative standards very high, higher than any other group in the world. That is a fact. Imagine how low you have to stoop to want to destroy Christianity.
What faith groups are Army chaplains?
The faith traditions the Army recognizes for training as Army Chaplains include Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist. Christian is the largest group, but also represent many denominations. Candidates are associated with an endorser organization within different faith groups.

...that seems OK. There's probably others like Sikhs, Bahai, Jain, etc...idk others of smaller numbers that maybe you could include if there's a community there and someone who wanted to be a chaplain.

I don't think it'll stand if they only let it be Christian chaplains. That would count as government endorsement of a religion and someone will certainly sue before long and they would win.
post 1682512653 05-11-2023, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Is it, currently?
Que?

Liberalisim is political philosophy.

I don't know how the "currently" modifier is operating here.
post 1682513263 05-11-2023, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
"There is no individual freedom on the left".

Opinion, not fact, false by definition.
Here are examples; are there currently males competing in female sports? Are there currently males showering with women against their will, and using the women's bathroom?

Does prioritizing minorities for a job position violate civil rights of whites?

Is stealing from one group to give to another group a violation of individual rights?

Collectivism is requiring everybody to work together to accomplish a goal. In an economy of scale, and a large society, there are too many diverse values, personal situations, religions...to get everyone to agree. Instead, the right/conservatives become more tribal, which is the antithesis of collectivism.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682513343 05-11-2023, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I don't know how the "currently" modifier is operating here.
Is actual "liberalism" currently "on the left" side of the spectrum?

It shouldn't be that difficult.

post 1682513563 05-11-2023, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Is it currently "on the left"?

It shouldn't be that difficult.
Ah. You want to conflate a bipartisan manifestation with a pre-existing philosophy. No thanks, Jeff.

But, it does look like everyone in the picture was free to be as ridiculous as they wanted. Were arrests made?
post 1682513823 05-11-2023, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted By GreatOldOne⏩
What faith groups are Army chaplains?
The faith traditions the Army recognizes for training as Army Chaplains include Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist. Christian is the largest group, but also represent many denominations. Candidates are associated with an endorser organization within different faith groups.

...that seems OK. There's probably others like Sikhs, Bahai, Jain, etc...idk others of smaller numbers that maybe you could include if there's a community there and someone who wanted to be a chaplain.

I don't think it'll stand if they only let it be Christian chaplains. That would count as government endorsement of a religion and someone will certainly sue before long and they would win.
How many Sikhs, Buddhist, Hindu etc are there in the military? Is this a real problem?

If you have information on how many of what religion there are, perhaps there is an argument for it. I think all of the religions that you're going to find at the top worship the same God though.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682514213 05-11-2023, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Ah. You want to conflate a bipartisan manifestation with a pre-existing philosophy. No thanks, Jeff.
So is that a no?
post 1682514523 05-11-2023, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Bodhy⏩
The GOP and the right-wing want dumbed down education. I've posted a lot on this. They thrive on anti-intellectualism. Why do the right always squeal about evil Marxist cabals infiltrating academia, which is this purely BS CT?

Why Trump loves the uneducated is because highly educated people immediately see him for the fraud and the conman he is, and his child-tier vocabulary only works to hoodwink the uneducated.


One of XterraRob's less nutty beliefs is where China might be getting a serious advantage over the US is in their investment in education. The greatest country in the world in one century will be the one that educated its civilians today.

We know higher educated people vote liberal and academia has a strong liberal bias. Because conservatism tends to erode when faced with a critically thinking, progressive mind.
What are the average reading and math literacy levels in 100% Democrat-run inner-city public schools?
"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."

- PJ O'Rourke
post 1682514813 05-11-2023, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
So is that a no?
What I'm that photo depicts lack or loss of individual freedom?

The Liberal Party of Canada is terrible. We are losing individual freedom daily. Non of that is depicted in the photo.

The LPC is a (currently terrible) political party.

Liberalism is a philosophy.

Conflating the two is silly.

I've never voted for the LPC. But if there was party that reflected liberalism, that party would have my vote.
post 1682515053 05-11-2023, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
What I'm that photo depicts lack or loss of individual freedom?

The Liberal Party of Canada is terrible. We are losing individual freedom daily. Non of that is depicted in the photo.

The LPC is a (currently terrible) political party.

Liberalism is a philosophy.

Conflating the two is silly.

I've never voted for the LPC. But if there was party that reflected liberalism, that party would have my vote.
So is that a no?
post 1682515383 05-11-2023, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
So is that a no?
I dunno, that's why I asked.

The poster to whom I responded and quoted claimed that "the left" opposes individual freedom.

Since many associate liberalism with "the left" and liberalism has individual freedom as a primary tenet, I was seeking clarification as to how "the left" is against individual freedom.
post 1682515833 05-11-2023, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I dunno, that's why I asked.

The poster to whom I responded and quoted claimed that "the left" opposes individual freedom.

Since many associate liberalism with "the left" and liberalism has individual freedom as a primary tenet, I was seeking clarification as to how "the left" is against individual freedom.
So is that a no?
post 1682516113 05-11-2023, 01:59 PM
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post 1682517283 05-11-2023, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I dunno, that's why I asked.

The poster to whom I responded and quoted claimed that "the left" opposes individual freedom.

Since many associate liberalism with "the left" and liberalism has individual freedom as a primary tenet, I was seeking clarification as to how "the left" is against individual freedom.
In America, the "liberal" has become the left. The label is very deceiving to the rest of the world. What you are referring to is what we now call "classic liberalism" to make the distinction. This would be people like Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Walter Williams…authors of which I get a vast amount of my facts and logic from, because I trust this perspective.

Btw, notice their skin color? Every one of those men are called "Uncle Toms" for the view on liberty. These are strong individuals with good character. Srs
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
post 1682518623 05-11-2023, 02:33 PM
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My question.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Is liberalism on the left?
A response?
Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Is it, currently?
In my opinion, yes liberalism is on the left, historically and currently.
Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
So is that a no?
It's a yes from me. I thought that was clear. I was asking the other poster how or why his view is different.
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