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Forum » Car ownership costs about $0.73 per mile.
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Thread: Car ownership costs about $0.73 per mile.

post 1691089973 10-03-2023, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted By skier!⏩
Yes Dr nash. He is figuring the entire cost of the car whereas if he paid 30k and sold it for 15k, you only consider the 15k.

You are both assuming the entire cost of the car is a fixed cost and it is being run into the ground, given away for free, etc. It has a life and a value if he is still holding it.

If you buy a 1 mil car and drive it 1000 miles (not considering any other expenses to keep it easy) then sell it for 950k you cannot say the cost per mile is 1000. It is 50 per mile.

Correct way to do the calculation is similar to accounting, you hold the asset and each month you depreciate it
But if he sells his depreciated car, and is now forced to buy a hyperinflated 2023 car, he will be miles and miles ABOVE $0.73, even if you include his previous vehicles mileage into his new vehicle.

Unless you're suggesting that he gives up cars entirely after he sells it?
post 1691090333 10-03-2023, 07:39 PM
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I don't think you can simplify the cost down to a simple "cents per mile" - there's a component of cost that increases with miles driven (fuel), a component that doesn't increase with mileage at all (like registration, emissions testing, some insurance plans etc), and a component that increases with some function of time and mileage (depreciation)

In other words, there's a fixed cost of driving plus a marginal cost of driving


I'm interested in my marginal cost of driving, given that I have paid to drive 10,000 miles in a year, how much extra would it cost to drive 10,001 miles instead? For me driving an economical sedan, I'd suspect its about 10c per mile

This is important because it means the cost for me to drive to the other side of town and back (10 miles round trip) would only be about a dollar, not 70 dollars

I'm happy to discuss this further
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post 1691090613 10-03-2023, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
This is important because it means the cost for me to drive to the other side of town and back (10 miles round trip) would only be about a dollar, not 70 dollars
Unless your car was given to you for free, you need to factor in your purchase price because doing miles IS THE REASON YOU BOUGHT THE CAR lol.....

Unless it's some vintage Ferrari you bought to look at.
post 1691090733 10-03-2023, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
Unless your car was given to you for free, you need to factor in your purchase price because doing miles IS THE REASON YOU BOUGHT THE CAR lol.....

Unless it's some vintage Ferrari you bought to look at.
Depreciation involves the purchase price

I have to have a car regardless*, and most of that depreciation will occur regardless if I drive those miles or not. Therefore you cannot attribute that cost to marginal miles driven. You can attribute marginal depreciation to marginal miles driven, but that isn't much $


* yeah yeah, I could live somewhere with adequate public transportation like NYC, but I choose not to
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post 1691090863 10-03-2023, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
I have to have a car regardless*, and most of that depreciation will occur regardless if I drive those miles or not. Therefore you cannot attribute that cost to marginal miles driven. You can attribute marginal depreciation to marginal miles driven, but that isn't much $
Yes you can, because a car can range from $10k to $100k.

The average American purchases a car that ends up costing them an average of $0.73 per mile.

I think it's funny this number is so high that miscers can't even believe it..... but if you sit with a calculator, you'll realize how accurate it is.
post 1691090963 10-03-2023, 07:54 PM
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Essentially what I'm saying is that modeling the cost of driving the car as:

cost = miles * some constant

is an incorrect way of looking at it. It implies that driving 5000 miles per year is twice as expensive as 2500 miles per year. In reality it may only be 10 percent more

Instead you need to model it as:

cost = miles * some constant + some other constant

Where "some other constant" is a fairly large cost, and the "some constant" is relatively low

Once you have a car, its fairly cheap to drive more miles.

The startup cost of owning a car is high, but driving extra miles is relatively cheap
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post 1691091173 10-03-2023, 07:57 PM
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The average NEW car in the USA is $48,000.

So let's say some person doesn't even finance the car, they never insure it, it never needs gas, tires, brakes, oil, fluid, repairs, emissions testing, registration..... and the person drives this miracle car for 100,000 miles..... they will have ended up STILL paying $0.48 per mile in this impossible scenario.
post 1691091333 10-03-2023, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
The average NEW car in the USA is $48,000.

So let's say some person doesn't even finance the car, they never insure it, it never needs gas, tires, brakes, oil, fluid, repairs, emissions testing, registration..... and the person drives this miracle car for 100,000 miles..... they will have ended up STILL paying $0.48 per mile in this impossible scenario.
(First let’s assume that the car is worthless at the end of this example. So that the depreciation is equal to the purchase price. Otherwise the value of the car at the end should be subtracted from the purchase price)

Yeah, but if they drove 100,001 miles instead of 100,000 miles, they didn’t depreciate the car an extra 48 cents. Because most of the depreciation is due to age, and will happen regardless if they drive that extra mile or not

Therefore, taking a trip across town at 10 miles doesn’t mean an extra 4.80 cents will be out of their pocket
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post 1691091493 10-03-2023, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Yeah, but if they drove 100,001 miles instead of 100,000 miles, they didn’t depreciate the car an extra 48 cents. Because most of the depreciation is due to age, and will happen regardless if they drive that extra mile or not

Therefore, taking a trip across town at 10 miles doesn’t mean an extra 4.80 cents will be out of their pocket
Correct, because this an impossible scenario. I'm using an impossible scenario to show how expensive it is to drive if you incur literally zero expenses after the initial purchase.

Just because a person spends $48k on a car, doesn't mean that cost is irrelevant immediately after they write the check.... And on average, Americans end up spending $0.73/mile as a result.

Then you have examples where someone pays $6k for a car, then the repairs end up pushing them to well over $0.73 before they end up dumping it..... been there, done that LOL.
post 1691091583 10-03-2023, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
Correct, because this an impossible scenario. I'm using an impossible scenario to show how expensive it is to drive if you incur literally zero expenses after the initial purchase.

Just because a person spends $48k on a car, doesn't mean that cost is irrelevant immediately after they write the check.... And on average, Americans end up spending $0.73/mile as a result.

Then you have examples where someone pays $6k for a car, then the repairs end up pushing them to well over $0.73 before they end up dumping it..... been there, done that LOL.
Oh, I’m under no misunderstanding that car ownership is really expensive

I’m just pointing out that the cost is a combination of fixed and marginal costs, the fixed cost is relatively high, the marginal cost is relatively low

A miscer earlier in the thread was saying that a drive across town or something would cost .73xmiles and that’s blatantly not true. If there was some alternate universe where they took that trip and one where they didn’t, the difference to their net worth wouldn’t be near .73xmiles for that trip. But, at the same time, they can average their costs at the end of the year and come out to .73 per mile because they are averaging their fixed costs over their usage. Both of these things can be true at the same time
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post 1691091723 10-03-2023, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
. But, at the same time, they can average their costs at the end of the year and come out to .73 per mile because they are averaging their fixed costs over their usage. Both of these things can be true at the same time
They CAN be determined when you have a massive pool of all American drivers and you divide their total costs over their total miles.... which happens to be $0.73/mile on average.
post 1691091803 10-03-2023, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
They CAN be determined when you have a massive pool of all American drivers and you divide their total costs over their total miles.... which happens to be $0.73/mile on average.
Sure, but it doesn’t mean that taking an extra 100 mile trip will cost extra 73 dollars
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post 1691091873 10-03-2023, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
The average NEW car in the USA is $48,000.

So let's say some person doesn't even finance the car, they never insure it, it never needs gas, tires, brakes, oil, fluid, repairs, emissions testing, registration..... and the person drives this miracle car for 100,000 miles..... they will have ended up STILL paying $0.48 per mile in this impossible scenario.
If they drove it into the ground and got nothing for it, yes.

But 100k is a very short life for a car. 200k is reasonable for a new car today. So $.24 a mile
------------
Offtopic, hard for me to believe an average car is 48k new. This has to be including trucks and then every model of a vehicle which weights it. And luxury vehicles which skew it. Best way to look at is probably median, similar to home prices. That would be interesting to see.
post 1691091913 10-03-2023, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Sure, but it doesn’t mean that taking an extra 100 mile trip will cost extra 73 dollars
If you are an American who owns a car - ON AVERAGE - your 100 mile trip DOES in fact end up costing you $73 lol.....
post 1691091943 10-03-2023, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Sure, but it doesn’t mean that taking an extra 100 mile trip will cost extra 73 dollars
Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
If you are an American who owns a car - ON AVERAGE - your 100 mile trip DOES in fact end up costing you $73 lol.....
The .73 per mile is off, but yes it does mean this.

IRS gives you ~ .55 a mile now on your taxes

Every mile you drive a vehicle you are lessening it's life. You may not have $73 taken out of your bank account but you are losing it
post 1691092083 10-03-2023, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted By skier!⏩
If they drove it into the ground and got nothing for it, yes.

But 100k is a very short life for a car. 200k is reasonable for a new car today. So $.24 a mile
------------
Offtopic, hard for me to believe an average car is 48k new. This has to be including trucks and then every model of a vehicle which weights it. And luxury vehicles which skew it. Best way to look at is probably median, similar to home prices. That would be interesting to see.
Yeah, vehicle price actually should not factor into the equation. Depreciation should, which implicitly includes vehicle price

The overall point that OP is making is that car ownership is expensive and that people should consider alternative means of transport, then 100% agree

But, the statement that the average marginal cost of driving is 73 cents per mile isn’t true
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post 1691092153 10-03-2023, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
If you are an American who owns a car - ON AVERAGE - your 100 mile trip DOES in fact end up costing you $73 lol.....
No, it doesn’t. I agree with the premise of the thread that driving is expensive and people should consider alternate means of transport. But on this statement you are wrong. Your conflating fixed costs and marginal costs

Analogy, if it costs 1B to create a medicine factory and the marginal cost to produce a pill is 1 dollar and it produces 1B pills, the total cost is 2B, or 2 dollars per pill. But it does NOT mean the cost of making another pill is 2 dollars
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post 1691092393 10-03-2023, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
No, it doesn’t. I agree with the premise of the thread that driving is expensive and people should consider alternate means of transport. But on this statement you are wrong. Your conflating fixed costs and marginal costs

Analogy, if it costs 1B to create a medicine factory and the marginal cost to produce a pill is 1 dollar and it produces 1B pills, the total cost is 2B, or 2 dollars per pill. But it does NOT mean the cost of making another pill is 2 dollars
But if you chose (or are forced) to build a whole new factory every 7 years or so (the way people cycle through cars) your costs continuously stay high indefinitely.... until you decide to quit making medicine.
post 1691092483 10-03-2023, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
But if you chose (or are forced) to build a whole new factory every 7 years or so (the way people cycle through cars) your costs continuously stay high indefinitely.... until you decide to quit making medicine.
Yes car ownership is expensive

But even if you have to replace the factory every 7 years and the average cost of a pill is still 2 dollars, the cost of making an extra pill would still only be 1 dollar

The average cost vs marginal cost distinction matters and which one you use depends on context

For setting the price to the consumer you’d go with average cost because you need to recoup the fixed costs. Presumably this is why the IRS sets the mileage rate at 55 cents or w/e

But if you were running a calculation on whether it makes sense to make 1B vs 1.1B pills (akin to how much it costs to drive across town and back), you would use marginal cost

I can’t explain it any simpler than this, and if you still don’t understand this or how the analogy relates to car ownership, I can’t help you anymore
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post 1691092583 10-03-2023, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By skier!⏩
Every mile you drive a vehicle you are lessening it's life. You may not have $73 taken out of your bank account but you are losing it
See above posts, yes you depreciate the vehicle some amount each mile you drive but it isn’t as much as you think because most of the depreciation is due to time, and that happens regardless. A 20 year old car is nearly worthless even if it was only driven 50k miles

So some amount is taken out of your pocket so to speak, but not an extra 73
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post 1691092793 10-03-2023, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
See above posts, yes you depreciate the vehicle some amount each mile you drive but it isn’t as much as you think because most of the depreciation is due to time, and that happens regardless. A 20 year old car is nearly worthless even if it was only driven 50k miles

So some amount is taken out of your pocket so to speak, but not an extra 73
Correct.

If you buy a $48k car, the first mile is $48k, then $24k, etc etc.... allllllll the way down to $0.73, and even lower, say down to $0.50.... but then you buy a new car, and it shoots back up again to the price of the vehicle.

So between that entire range of $0.50-$48,000.00..... on average Americans end up right around $0.73/mile over their lifetime of being a driver.
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
Correct.

If you buy a $48k car, the first mile is $48k, then $24k, etc etc.... allllllll the way down to $0.73, and even lower, say down to $0.50.... but then you buy a new car, and it shoots back up again to the price of the vehicle.

So between that entire range of $0.50-$48,000.00..... on average Americans end up right around $0.73/mile over their lifetime of being a driver.
I agree with this post in that the average cost comes out to 73 cents per mile (as in the pill factory averages 2 dollars per pill)

But the marginal cost of driving 100 extra miles isn’t an extra 73 dollars (as in the pill factory only needs an extra 100 dollars to produce an extra 100 pills, not 200 dollars)
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
I agree with this post in that the average cost comes out to 73 cents per mile (as in the pill factory averages 2 dollars per pill)

But the marginal cost of driving 100 extra miles isn’t an extra 73 dollars (as in the pill factory only needs an extra 100 dollars to produce an extra 100 pills, not 200 dollars)
This is where you're getting confused.... the average over the entire range comes out to 0.73/mile..... so over all Americans who are buying new cars, used cars, chit boxes, and Ferraris, the average cost per mile is $0.73. We even had a miscer who kept track of his average SUV and he confirmed that it is $0.73 lol.

If the argument is that he can knock it down to $0.61/mile by selling his car .... well now he doesn't have a car anymore, and is out of the equation entirely.

If he buys another car, his cost will rocket above $0.73 for a while again, before settling back around $0.73.
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
This is where you're getting confused.... the average over the entire range comes out to 0.73/mile..... so over all Americans who are buying new cars, used cars, chit boxes, and Ferraris, the average cost per mile is $0.73. We even had a miscer who kept track of his average SUV and he confirmed that it is $0.73 lol.

If the argument is that he can knock it down to $0.61/mile by selling his car .... well now he doesn't have a car anymore, and is out of the equation entirely.
That isn’t my argument, my argument is there is a fixed cost and marginal cost, not only a marginal cost

If it were true that the cost of ownership is as simple as multiplying the number of miles driven by 73 cents (or some other constant), it would mean that if if you bought a car and never drove it all, just parked it in your garage for the next 20 years, zero mileage, then the cost of ownership would be 0. That is obviously not true.

If you are thinking using zero is cheating, what if you only drive 100 miles in a year. Is your cost only 73 dollars?
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
If it were true that the cost of ownership is as simple as multiplying the number of miles driven by 73 cents (or some other constant), it would mean that if if you bought a car and never drove it all, just parked it in your garage for the next 20 years, zero mileage, then the cost of ownership would be 0. That is obviously not true.

If you are thinking using zero is cheating, what if you only drive 100 miles in a year. Is your cost only 73 dollars?
There are people who do that. If you buy a 250swb for $10m, and drive it 50 miles, your $/miles will be very, very high.

If you drive a used Prius for 200k miles, your $/miles will be very low.

On average, the number for Americans settles at $0.73/mile.
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Originally Posted By HMFIC_BROWSIN⏩
There are people who do that. If you buy a 250swb for $10m, and drive it 50 miles, your $/miles will be very, very high.

If you drive a used Prius for 200k miles, your $/miles will be very low.

On average, the number for Americans settles at $0.73/mile.
Ok, I can see that your trolling at this point, using both different cars and different miles between the examples, instead of only different miles with same car, so that you don’t have to admit that the cost isn’t mileage times a constant which is what this thread is about

Hopefully this discourse was interesting to someone else
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Originally Posted By Austanian⏩
Didn't pause to think before posting did you?

There are very clearly fixed and variable costs with car ownership (also semi-fixed).

You're rolling fixed costs into a per mileage basis. If you were paying those costs if the car was sitting in your garage it isn't necessarily applicable to a per mileage basis.
Fuark, just read through the thread and realized I wasn’t the first to waste my time pointing this out

This guy has Finance Degree in his sig, should be the first clue he knows what he’s talking about
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post 1691093753 10-03-2023, 09:28 PM
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#88
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Ok, I can see that your trolling at this point, using both different cars and different miles between the examples, instead of only different miles with same car, so that you don’t have to admit that the cost isn’t mileage times a constant which is what this thread is about

Hopefully this discourse was interesting to someone else
I'm not trolling lmao.

90 and 10 are two very different numbers. The average is 50.

So yes there is a huge range as you point out, but the whole point here is that Americans on average are blowing through $0.73 per mile when they drive.
post 1691118363 10-04-2023, 11:15 AM
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#89
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Originally Posted By SaviorSelfJT⏩
Depreciation involves the purchase price

I have to have a car regardless*, and most of that depreciation will occur regardless if I drive those miles or not. Therefore you cannot attribute that cost to marginal miles driven. You can attribute marginal depreciation to marginal miles driven, but that isn't much $


* yeah yeah, I could live somewhere with adequate public transportation like NYC, but I choose not to
Right. The cost of the car is a sunk cost and it shouldn't be in the equation of cost per mile. At least that's how I think about it. If I buy a car for $40k, then sell it in 10 years for $28k, the cost of the vehicle is $12k and I divided $12k by 100k miles to find the true cost per mile if one wanted to do that. Same thing when I buy the next car. I don't know the true cost of ownership until it's sold, but feel free to apply the free market value if one chooses.

The only cost per mile you're actually accumulating is the gas and general maintenance. And general maintenance would be part of the fixed costs, but yet it's variable depending upon the miles and upkeep and parts used. Basic accounting calculations here.
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post 1691123823 10-04-2023, 12:44 PM
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go blame your ancestors for creating car centric cities to appease car maker$$.

lol @ car paymentcells.

Average car payment is $600 @ 7%. Add in costs, ins, tolls, oil changes, tires, gas - most americans are literally paying OVER $1000 a month to go from POINT A TO POINT B.

How embarassing. Europeans and asians are laughing at us. Most of my downtown toronto friends don't even own a car. It literally saves them $1000 a month each.

Corporations want losers to have a carpayment for the rest of their lives. Money into a deprecating asset. And with car thefts/cat convertor thefts off the roof - your car is even more expensive now.
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