hehe ty women =] I would say it kinda depends on what ur goal is:

if u want a very thorough but very clear OVERALL explanation of everything plus exercises to try, etc, this book is AWESOME, wish I read it first:
https://www.amazon.com/Stoicism-Art-.../dp/1444187104

if u are more interested in using it for "peace of mind"/tranquility this book is great and it also gives very good overview/intro to the subject and very clear also:
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Li.../dp/1522632735

if u are more interested in just the "life hack"/success tips version, i actually recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Obstacle-Way-.../dp/1591846358

if u really want to jump right into reading stuff by the original ancient stoic authors I suggest get the Enchiridion by Epictetus, it is literally a "handbook" that kinda summarizes the main points and it is very short and quick to read

-US Army Special Forces

awesome quote brah!

Brahs I don't see how stoicism is compatible with leading a highly achieving and fulfilling life. I only use the principles during bad times and to give my life a sense of urgency(time is the most valuable asset). But to dull the bad events in your life to prevent it from affecting you also dulls the peak moments and I don't agree with that.

How do you balance this philosophy with the western pursuit of a highly achieving and fulfilling life?

This.

Reading this thread I realize I used some stoicism in daily life. My only thing is..I get anxious about death. Not because of death itself but the fear of not accomplishing my goals while I'm on earth. We get one shot and I'd like to accomplish everything. This then gets me anxious because I am nowhere near those goals and will be around 8+ years before I finally get around to them.

Life goals include:
Become a practicing physician (2nd year Med student)
Pay off the rest of my parents mortgage
Buy my parents a car
Help my brother and his wife with their mortgage
Set up my own old and abused animal sanctuary
Investment
Set up a bar with my close friends and I
Become a Vet tech so that I may also work with animals, and if there is an expensive procedure and the family really loves their dog - donate anonymously

As you guys can see this is a long process.

Any advice?

putting in very simple terms the basic thing stoicism will teach u is it is FINE to AIM for these things but ur life can still be "happy"/fulfilling EVEN IF they don't work out the way u r thinking of, these goals r things they would call "preferred indifferents"=they are WISE to AIM for but u must realize that it is not in ur control if they totally work out like u plan so the END RESULT is NOT what is "good" or "bad"

one example they use is archer shooting an arrow can have some control over how they aim and shoot the arrow but after they shoot it is not under their control if arrow actually hits target

I think of it kinda like "it's not if u win or lose it's how u play the game"

obviously there's more to it than that if u go deeper into it and read more of the real books, just kinda trying to cliff it for u guys, main thing trying to say it it's compatible with pursuing various goals but it also helps u see what's more important if everything doesn't turn out like u prefer

I like that arrow metaphor, thanks for sharing. What I don't like is the lack of accountability for the inevitable disappointment that follows when you don't reach your goal. It impacts your gratitude and outlook on life in a real, measurable way.

Stoicism attempts to quash that by teaching not to have that expectation in the first place?

Awesome goals: they're specific, measurable, and time-constrained. They all seem to share similar commonalities though, revolving helping others especially your loved ones/animals and financial abundance. You may be able to pursue those underlying virtues* through smaller acts that you can do right now to feel fulfilled.

You can change the approach in how you view the fear of death and running out of time from anxiety to a strong source of motivation to advance. Worked for me and my life coach.


*Gotta be careful when using the term virtue around stoics, heh.

Something I've been beating the drum about for years seems like a good distillation of the stoics about achieivement. To me, what's crucial is the difference between being happy in the moment, while being driven, vs thinking that when "X" happens that THEN you'll be happy. I'm about the most driven guy I know, but I don't for a second think that when you hit that goal, you're going to reach a point in life where you say "great, I did it. That's my last goal, we all lived happily ever after, roll credits."

To put it in terms of lifting - my goal for a long time was to squat 3 plates. The day I hit 3 plates, I felt like the fuarking KING... for 10 minutes. After that, I was already thinking about the next goal - 325 in this case. What's important is to realize that satisfaction comes from within you, not from achievements. However, that doesn't mean you should just make peace with where you are and never try to do better.

I have a friend that moves across the country every 6 months for work because they think that THIS is the job that's going to make them feel fulfilled and bring them peace. But wherever they go.... there they are.

I had the exact same experience but with the human flag, when I nailed it I was ecstatic for about 10 min then I calmed downed and realized "that's it!?"

Achievements overall in a life are highly overrated as I see it in terms of "happiness". It might provide a kick or rush for a while but then you're back to your "normal state". I know people still like to chase achievements but I'm more leaning to the "it's all about the journey not the destination". But it's different for everyone and neither one is correct or right - whatever floats your boat.

ANYWAY

On to stoicism. All you really need is "Meditations" it's cheap and it's a short read. You read it and then you read it again and read it again until you brainwash yourself with the words of Marcus Aurelius. You can read 1 page at a time then put it away, the point is no matter how much or little you read there is always one quote that hits you right in the chest and shakes your world and makes you realize what life is about. it's an amazing book and I recommend it to EVERYONE.

I've read many different books on stoicism, from the original authors and from the guys who try to translate stoicism to everyday english so to speak the Irvine-book and all they try to do is simplify the text so it's easier to understand, they don't really bring anything new to the table. If you read Meditations there will be some quotes that are really abstract and hard to grasp but fuk that if you only grasp 10% of the book it will change your life most of the book is quite simple to understand tho depending on which translation you get but the main point is - READ IT


I've also read somewhere that stoicism is one of the best ways of "curing" depression but don't quote me on that, the point is that it's effective and it works really well.

Get meditations now! You can even download it if you're creative.


"You have power over your mind, not outside events, realize this and you will find strength" - Marcus Aurelius

I think stoics would say you should set and pursue goals because they reflect your inner values and convictions. But don't expect that acheiving them will make you 'happy'. They won't neccessarily due to the hedonic treadmill and the human psyche.

What is happiness anyway? It often seems to be framed as a set characteristic or permanent state that can be acheived. In reality it seems more like a fleeting ephemeral state that depends on countless random factors.

To the guys talking about death, this book will blow your head, amazing stuff

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BSAC0...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

The existentialists had lots of interesting perspectives on mortality, I don't know half as much about the stoics

yeah I feel that's pretty accurate, real hardcore stoics would say u shouldn't be "disappointed" cuz your real goal should be to ACT wisely/virtuously which is in ur control even tho the "external" outcome is not but I feel the way u put it is good way to think of it

this link gives good explanation of the "stoic reserve clause" which is kinda what I'm trying to get at:https://www.ukhypnosis.com/2011/04/0...eserve-clause/

A lot of Christian philosophers adopted parts of Stoicism into their teachings.

“True happiness is to enjoy the present, without anxious dependence upon the future, not to amuse ourselves with either hopes or fears but to rest satisfied with what we have, which is sufficient, for he that is so wants nothing. The greatest blessings of mankind are within us and within our reach. A wise man is content with his lot, whatever it may be, without wishing for what he has not.”
― Seneca

I try to do this and am very successful with it for the most part. To kind of touch on the issues posters above brought up I'll point out some of the issues I've had. I'm kind of concerned with my own personal accomplishments but not necessarily on a personal level. I think we all have a responsibility to make the world better so sometimes I worry if I do enough. I also think that to most effectively manuver in the world you should be as aware as possible of all the different issues. And becoming aware of the different issues the world faces causes you to carry some of the load. So there is a constant balancing act of feeling fulfilled with your life while trying to make sure you are fulfilling a substantial part of your responsibility(I don't think anyone could ever live up to their full potential). Perhaps that's what some of the posters above were referencing and maybe I'm not doing a great job of expressing my sentiments on the matter. Like I said I'm generally fulfilled and happy with my life but there is a constant balancing act of being happy and fulfilled and wondering if you could take on more of a burden for the world.

seems legit

Wouldn't a stoic...not brag about or join every penis thread? Just saying

- the Stoic

meh never claimed to be the perfect "Sage"


hehe ty men for bumping thread

I think attempting a stoic outlook or lifestyle is a constant fight against instinct- its just not instinctual to let go of the feelings of control and the pull towards more base feelings and actions. Its damn hard to truly embrace the concept of not being in control of outside influences and concentrating on only those aspects of yourself that you can control, so a natural instinct is to glory in those gifts you may have or what you are good at, when in reality those things simply are what they are, not something you yourself had control over making so. Being proud of your gifts is a natural reaction, regardless of the fact that it does no real good to be invested in them, since it took no actual effort to acquire them, they simply are what they are, but the instinctual reaction to being blessed in some way is to compare what you have to what others have and take some glory in the feeling of being more gifted than them.

Embracing the stoic outlook on these things, however, you understand that you simply play the role that you were made to play, since a man who does not use his gifts would be a foolish man, but likewise a man who places too much regard on something not in his control would be setting himself up for unhappiness.

yep that's what I meant =] well said brah!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PepperedAngus again.

listening to this now brah

Be interested to hear what you thought!

I have Marcus Aurelius Meditations on my shelf. Might read it next. In for more wisdom, keep the thread going guys.

7 ways billionaires like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates demonstrate the ancient philosophy of Marcus Aurelius
http://www.businessinsider.com/stoic...ed-be-humble-1

Thanks for a good read on a Friday sir! #4 is a one that hit home for me - I am in one of those cycles where each day blurs into the other, and have been trying to consciously carve out time for what's important to me.

u welcome brah!


brahs here's another stoic related thread from another miscer, check it out!https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...11&pagenumber=

cool bread right here
wood read

these days im reading marcus aurelius and Epictitus
great philosophers both

hehe ty men




https://youtu.be/o0MzQZ_eFEY