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Forum » Airlines want a bailout
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Thread: Airlines want a bailout

post 1600024951 03-17-2020, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted By exxtracool⏩
500 round trip to europe? Thats cheap af bro when did you go?

I go every summer and i pay around 1.3k cad to rome.


Either way though, since it was mentioned a few times, airlines make most of their $$ from first classes tickets not from the 90$ peasant seat.
vegas to london, summer time...book 3 months advance on Kiwi

airlines in europe are super cheap too, like ryan air and wizzair..was paying 30 bucks a flight
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600025041 03-17-2020, 01:50 PM
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No more corporate bailouts. If they wanna invest in the economy, then hand out checks to regular citizens.
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post 1600025101 03-17-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By enzo818⏩
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...09-column.html

Actually, you are the idiot because OBAMA signed off on it. 17k lmaoooo when executives get 50 million bonuses and dont get laid off like so many workers did.
He signed off on a stimulus started under Bush, yet you afford him total responsibility. Disingenuous as phuk meng.

You'd scoff at $17k dropped into your bank account? Mirin.
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post 1600025221 03-17-2020, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted By digital022⏩
Except for that:

The four biggest U.S. carriers — Delta, American, Southwest and United — have collectively spent about $39 billion over the last five years buying back shares.

Just LOL
This.

When times are good they bought shares to drive prices up and lower their taxes. Now that times are bad, rather than sell the excess shares they have at low prices, they want the tax payers to bail them out.

They have zero incentive to have any kind of disaster preparedness plans if they know the government will bail them out.

Taxpayers bail them out and there is nothing preventing it from happening all over again.


Also inb4 we bail out the banks and auto industry AGAIN.

You seen how far Ford has fallen? meanwhile look at Toyota who is only down 20% and wont need a bailout. Both are multinational global competitors.

Watch we learned nothing from last time.
post 1600025371 03-17-2020, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By RonaldMcflurry⏩
No more corporate bailouts. If they wanna invest in the economy, then hand out checks to regular citizens.
This. The raw numbers are staggering. The airlines want 600 billion and they employ 525k people. If you split it evenly among every person that worked for these companies they would get over a million dollars each. Those capital assets like jets would also be bought up by other companies and some of the employees would be rehired. If you think that airlines are essential to national security then they shouldn't be privately run anyway without a public option. If they are essential it should be a USPS vs UPS vs FedEx type of situation
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post 1600025801 03-17-2020, 02:00 PM
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I’ve said it already but will say it again for posterity. If they get a bailout, I will leave the country. I’ll either pay for a one-way ticket somewhere or move to Canada or something. That’ll probably happen within two years of them getting it. I’m dead serious too. When oil prices skyrocketed in 2008, so did their airfare. When prices came back down, their fares didn’t. They’re making money hand over fist. Save your sob stories for someone who’s sympathetic. I ain’t hearing it. If we don’t have enough money for “you pick a socialist program,” we don’t have enough for them. What is being bounced around is nothing more than socialism. Incidentally, everyone else who jacked up their prices because of oil left their prices high, too. Screw them and let them burn, consequences be d-worded.
post 1600026091 03-17-2020, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted By RonaldMcflurry⏩
No more corporate bailouts. If they wanna invest in the economy, then hand out checks to regular citizens.
they are right now...check the news
(these are my opinions i am not a licensed broker by trade)
post 1600026681 03-17-2020, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
A quick look at Boeing's cash flow statement from last year shows the following:

Net Income: -$636 million (loss)
Cash Flow from Operating Activities: -$2.446 billion (loss)
Cash Flow from Investing Activities: -$1.530 billion (loss)
Cash Flow from Financial Activities: +5.739 billion (gain)
Net Cash Flow: $1.672 billion


Their income statement shows the following:

Gross Profit: $4.53 billion
Net Profit: -$636 million (loss)


So... how much of a bonus do you think their CEO receives?

Mr. Calhoun, their CEO, receives a base salary of $1.4 million and is eligible for an annual target bonus of $2.5 million, along with long term incentive awards worth $7.5 million and restricted stock units worth $10 million. Even if you added that all up together and redistributed it to their 153,027 employees, each employee would receive a grand total of$139.85. When you take out the long term incentive awards and restricted stock units which don't get paid out all at once, each employee would receive a grand total of$25.49.
Lol so 10 million is nothing, right? Also, have you not heard stock buybacks lol? They buy back their stock to artificially drive the prices with their profits. When they reinvest they are not doing it out of kindness of their hearts. They are doing it to INCREASE THEIR PROFITS IN THE FUTURE.
post 1600026751 03-17-2020, 02:12 PM
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Tell them no
post 1600027021 03-17-2020, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Wow, that's messed up, companies are trying to increase their profits in the future.. how dare they?
Yet they want a bail out.. Thats alright, right? When things are good lets keep making money!!! When things go south, govt give us money or we will fail.
post 1600027131 03-17-2020, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Wow, that's messed up, companies are trying to increase their profits in the future.. how dare they?
Yet they want a bail out.. Thats alright, right? When things are good they say lets keep making money!!! When things go south, govt give us money or we will fail. My point is that companies should eat their loss because they have no interest in helping citizens, only themselves.
post 1600027301 03-17-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
A quick look at Boeing's cash flow statement from last year shows the following:

Net Income: -$636 million (loss)
Cash Flow from Operating Activities: -$2.446 billion (loss)
Cash Flow from Investing Activities: -$1.530 billion (loss)
Cash Flow from Financial Activities: +5.739 billion (gain)
Net Cash Flow: $1.672 billion (gain)


Their income statement shows the following:

Gross Profit: $4.53 billion
Net Profit: -$636 million (loss)


So... how much of a bonus do you think their CEO receives?

Mr. Calhoun, their CEO, receives a base salary of $1.4 million and is eligible for an annual target bonus of $2.5 million, along with long term incentive awards worth $7.5 million and restricted stock units worth $10 million. Even if you added that all up together and redistributed it to their 153,027 employees, each employee would receive a grand total of$139.85. When you take out the long term incentive awards and restricted stock units which don't get paid out all at once, each employee would receive a grand total of$25.49.
boeing isnt an airline bro.



and





but ofc miscers know more about economics than the GOAT.
post 1600027531 03-17-2020, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Let's say you work out at a commercial gym, which you probably do, and there is only one gym near your residence. You don't have the money to afford your own home gym, so this commercial gym is really your only option. Otherwise you'll be working out with milk jugs and rocks.

Now let's say due to Coronavirus, your commercial gym loses all it's business since it's forced to close doors for a few months. It asks the government for a bailout so that it doesn't have to permanently close. Would you prefer the government bail them out so that you can continue to get your workouts in, or would you rather let the gym fail, and work out with milk jugs/rocks?
I prefer it fails tbh. Let them lower their costs and compensation for those at the top. Gyms overcharge people and lock people into contracts that I cant get out of.
post 1600027981 03-17-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
You're comparing cars to airlines. If you let car companies fail then fine, we can still get around. But if you let airlines fail? How the fuk are you going to travel long distances?
did you watch the video?

thats not how this **** works bro. if a company A goes out of business it sells off to a buyer we can call company B.. company B resumes operations.

if delta goes bankrupt tomorrow, which it wont btw so relax, its not like america will be fukt for the next 10 years..
post 1600028001 03-17-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
That wasn't the question. If they fail, you have no gym.

The whole point is that if we let the airlines fail completely, we have no airlines. That's ok?
They wont fail completely lol. We have a free market economy where competition will decide who fails and succeeds. That's what they want you to think. Funny how when banks got bailed out, so many executives got huge bonuses, but yet workers at the bottom got fired. AIG alone paid 170 billion in bonuses after the bail out and cut pension benefits. You think thats okay? You think thats a company that was about to fail when they could afford to give so much money?\

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-might-be-cut
post 1600028091 03-17-2020, 02:28 PM
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This thread reminds me of people whose medical knowledge was gleaned from seven seasons of Grey's Anatomy.

"They just cut the tumor out of my bladder. I am 110% now. No lingering consequences like my urine collecting in a bag for the rest of my life".

Where are all of these people waiting in the wings that are ready to be operational in an incredibly complex industry like air travel? Where are they getting the years of experience that will increase their odds of success?

Hypothetically if current airline companies tank, and all of these hypothetical experts kept out of the market because they are brilliant and the only thing keeping them from operating an egalitarian airline that will redistribute its profits to the bottom is lack of a pandemic, where will they come from?

Current airline companies. Same clowns different circus. A popular saying around here is "soft times create soft men". This is a case in point. No one coming from a country where the economy falls apart because a natural disaster would advocate to let essential services die in the midst of a crisis. They know from experience that it is a **** show and replacing an apparatus as huge and complex as air travel isn't as easy as "someone other than me will come along and do it even better than before".
The closer we approach the uncertainty of life's ending the more we wish to trade all of the things we have acquired in exchange for all of the things we have lost: wealth for youth, knowledge for fresh curiosity, resignation for hope. We'd trade our wisdom for new experiences, but it is wisdom that will teach us that at the end of the road the only new experience is death.
post 1600028121 03-17-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By Ratfish⏩
too big to fail is inherently false

too big is principally why they should fail and be carved up

should have definitely not bailed out the ******* gambler banks last time
agreed. The bank bailout was much worse, since they caused the collapse to begin with.

airlines didn't cause the virus outbreak, well kinda...
----------------------------------
post 1600028131 03-17-2020, 02:29 PM
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I usually disagree with bailouts like the bank bailouts 10 years ago... however... I think this situation is different. In this case the government has essentially shut down their business. Would be like saying “it’s illegal to buy chicken for the next 6 months”, and when chicken farms lose all their chit just tell them too bad. Would make the government have too big of an impact on private businesses.
It would be different if they adviced against flying etc., and people just chose not to.
Real Madrid, Miami Heat, New York Jets.
post 1600028171 03-17-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
You're comparing cars to airlines. If you let car companies fail then fine, we can still get around. But if you let airlines fail? How the fuk are you going to travel long distances?
There will still be strong demand for air travel. So strong in fact, that another company will pop up, buy the assets, and start operating in short order. And the new one will probably be smart enough to squirrel away some cash for the next rainy day instead of micro optimizing and pillaging every last cent to the rat faced executives. I also strongly suspect the existing airlines could round up some emergency cash via debt financing, but they are holding out for that welfare check.

If we determine that the need for air travel is so strong and so critical, the government can buy a fleet during liquidation and operate as an airline as well. Many countries already do this, including swanky airlines like Emirates. This would be a 10x better use of funds than just cutting these jerkoffs a huge check.
post 1600028891 03-17-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
That wasn't the question. If they fail, you have no gym.

The whole point is that if we let the airlines fail completely, we have no airlines. That's ok?
Yes that's ok. That's capitalism.

Other airlines will come up. TWA. Pan Am. If misc was around when they failed miscers would have been like SAVE THEM GIVE THEM MONEY. But guess what. We still have air travel.

I'm fine with companies doing whatever they can to boost their bottom line but if you fook it up and need a bailout, nah. Thems the breaks son.
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post 1600028911 03-17-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
The new buyer won't be some morally righteous corporation who wants to help the people and perpetually keep costs low. It's going to be a corporation JUST like the one it replaced. Things will get JUST as bad after a few years.
So either let them operate as companies or socialize it. This in between chit, where they keep all the profit during good times but taxpayers pay for their losses in bad ones - terrible use of resources.
post 1600028931 03-17-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Airlines have a collective monopoly on everyone. Sure, you can let them fail and they can get sold off to another buyer that resumes operations. But what do you think happens after a few years with the new buyer?

The new buyer won't be some morally righteous corporation who wants to help the people and perpetually keep costs low. It's going to be a corporation JUST like the one it replaced. Things will get JUST as bad after a few years. You can't control human nature especially that which you see at the top of the food chain in a corporation. There's no defeating an airline company except direct competition via alternate modes of travel at a lower cost.
LOL you just contradicted yourself. You said that we need airlines, now you are saying direct competition will solve the problem.
post 1600029751 03-17-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
Are you retarded? We absolutely do need airlines. There is no alternate means of transit as of today.

That doesn't mean an alternate mode of transportation is unwelcome if it can put the airlines out of business with no loss in convenience/scale.



Socialize it? What the fuk does that mean?
Lol sorry bro your arguments are filled with holes and contradictions. Needing airlines and bailing them out are two completely different things. Dont conflate them.
post 1600030551 03-17-2020, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
I think you lost this argument once you started resorting to pointing out "holes and contradictions" that don't exist, instead of providing facts or reason. You sound just like my younger sister (a leftist millennial), so I'm going to stop here.
Lmaooo, keep saying that to yourself while you think Boeing is an airline LMAO
post 1600030941 03-17-2020, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
A quick look at Boeing's cash flow statement from last year shows the following:

Net Income: -$636 million (loss)
Cash Flow from Operating Activities: -$2.446 billion (loss)
Cash Flow from Investing Activities: -$1.530 billion (loss)
Cash Flow from Financial Activities: +5.739 billion (gain)
Net Cash Flow: $1.672 billion (gain)


Their income statement shows the following:

Gross Profit: $4.53 billion
Net Profit: -$636 million (loss)


So... how much of a bonus do you think their CEO receives?

Mr. Calhoun, their CEO, receives a base salary of $1.4 million and is eligible for an annual target bonus of $2.5 million, along with long term incentive awards worth $7.5 million and restricted stock units worth $10 million. Even if you added that all up together and redistributed it to their 153,027 employees, each employee would receive a grand total of$139.85. When you take out the long term incentive awards and restricted stock units which don't get paid out all at once, each employee would receive a grand total of$25.49.
Totally disengenuous of you, since Boeing are paying for the 737 max scandal. It’s also not an airline last I checked
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post 1600031351 03-17-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
I just used a quick example. You can look at the previous years data (2018) as well, they were doing noticeably better.
LOL way to backtrack. You used an example that is not relevant, yet you think your argument is not flawed. LMAO cant fix stupid.
post 1600031531 03-17-2020, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace⏩
You're comparing cars to airlines. If you let car companies fail then fine, we can still get around. But if you let airlines fail? How the fuk are you going to travel long distances?

The only way to ever beat the airlines is to invent a mode of travel that is just as fast, at a lower cost. Until then, they have all of us by the balls, and there isn't anything we can do about it.
obviously you'll use the new airline that was built out of the ashes of the failed one
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post 1600032891 03-17-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By hendrixfreak70⏩
I’ve said it already but will say it again for posterity. If they get a bailout, I will leave the country. I’ll either pay for a one-way ticket somewhere or move to Canada or something. That’ll probably happen within two years of them getting it. I’m dead serious too. When oil prices skyrocketed in 2008, so did their airfare. When prices came back down, their fares didn’t. They’re making money hand over fist. Save your sob stories for someone who’s sympathetic. I ain’t hearing it. If we don’t have enough money for “you pick a socialist program,” we don’t have enough for them. What is being bounced around is nothing more than socialism. Incidentally, everyone else who jacked up their prices because of oil left their prices high, too. Screw them and let them burn, consequences be d-worded.
If your serious about this you should probably start looking to put your house on the market and begin looking for employment in some other country. They are already bringing it up and we are really only a couple of weeks into this in America. CV19 is likely going to last at least another month or two (and that's being optimistic).


The airlines are most likely going to be getting bailout.
post 1600046141 03-17-2020, 06:25 PM
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just lol if u aint got a private jet and helicopter in 2020
post 1600047051 03-17-2020, 06:40 PM
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To anybody complaining about how airlines are a vital industry and them going out of business would be bad: If the airline goes bankrupt, its assets are sold off for pennies on the dollar. Some enterprising individuals will come in and buy all the planes, hangars, and offices, and re-hire mostly the same people who were working there before. Prices will be way lower at first, because these guys are new and got their chit for cheap. Then gradually they will start to increase back up to where they were before. If some airlines go bankrupt and are unable to provide service, other airlines will be able to charge higher prices again, and will not need to be bailed out. Competition will continue to be high, airlines will work even harder to get your business, and the supply shortage will last for weeks.

A bailout does not help you at all. It only helps the people who currently own the company. And they are the ones who ****ed up.
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