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Unconditional cash transfers reduce homelessness
08-31-2023, 11:06 AM
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#91
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
What?! You're sayingJubilantlyLickingCocks is misrepresenting studies again? I for one am shockedThere is a lot that the OP didn’t include. The study consisted of a LOT of other costs associated with this study that isn’t mentioned. The cash wasn’t the only expenditure. Here are some important points…
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08-31-2023, 11:11 AM
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#92
08-31-2023, 11:18 AM
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#93
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
lol so?They also provided a workshop and coaching.
Try coaching or holding a workshop full of opiod & meth addicted bums. That doesn't address the point WoofieNugget brought up
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08-31-2023, 11:31 AM
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#94
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Unless you deal with them which I actually do then you wouldn't understand that a majority of them are drug addicts and would rather get high then get help. My city offers plenty of options for the homeless as far as getting them help and getting them on the right track and most won't utilize them. They rather just continue overdosing all the time. Giving most of these people money is bound to fail if you don't get them clean first.
08-31-2023, 11:38 AM
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#95
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Finland is the country which had the most success in eliminating homelessness and they did it by just providing the homeless with decent housing. No endless hoops to jump through prior, they start off by giving them a place to live and then support them to get the rest of their lives (addiction, jobs etc) together. And it worked staggeringly well.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
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08-31-2023, 11:46 AM
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#96
08-31-2023, 11:47 AM
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#97
08-31-2023, 11:48 AM
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#98
08-31-2023, 11:48 AM
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#99
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
Yeah, let's use a country with a population of five million people as an example....Finland is the country which had the most success in eliminating homelessness and they did it by just providing the homeless with decent housing. No endless hoops to jump through prior, they start off by giving them a place to live and then support them to get the rest of their lives (addiction, jobs etc) together. And it worked staggeringly well.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
08-31-2023, 11:48 AM
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#100
Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
The problem with these comparisons is that very large countries expose weaknesses that very small countries do not. Finland has a population of 5.5m, where as the US is 330m+. MuchFinland is the country which had the most success in eliminating homelessness and they did it by just providing the homeless with decent housing. No endless hoops to jump through prior, they start off by giving them a place to live and then support them to get the rest of their lives (addiction, jobs etc) together. And it worked staggeringly well.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
When we look at studies of small group and large group, as well as small country vs large country, the results are EXTREMELY different. The smaller the group, the more likely you are to get people to move towards a common goal for the sake of the group. This is the biggest problem with communism and socialism. The small/large group/country study results apply. You may be able to get a small group or country to pull it off, but the results of a large group/country has the OPPOSITE outcome.
I like to use the Amish as an example. Do you ever wonder why their community never really grows? Why, the larger the population, the more people leave?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
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08-31-2023, 11:49 AM
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#101
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Shocked that OP left all of this out.......There is a lot that the OP didn’t include. The study consisted of a LOT of other costs associated with this study that isn’t mentioned. The cash wasn’t the only expenditure. Here are some important points…
1. Subjects weren’t told what the study was about. They were unaware they would be receiving cash. When you set a system up like this, people are more likely to plan how they can exploit the system.
2. The city had recently built brand new project housing in the area. This means, they had access to tax payer funded housing.
3. Subjects had to be sober with no evidence of drug or alcohol use.
4. They combined the data for “ease of data collection”. We don’t know how much the coaching, education, and other help played a role.
5. Study was only 1 year. “The Churn” is a reference to the cycle of homelessness. Generally speaking, there is an underlying reason each individual is homeless. Until the root cause of each individual is addressed, the likelihood of repeat homelessness is extremely high. In other words, something like mental health care could be necessary.
6. As stated above, this study selected individuals who would specifically have a good chance of getting out of homelessness. The length of time, the root cause etc all impacted who they selected. In other words, they chose the exceptions to the rule.
There is more to address with the study, but the bottom line is, the total costs weren’t addressed, and the study was done in VERY ideal circumstances, like convenient low cost housing and candidates who would have been more likely to pull themselves out of homelessness.
1. Subjects weren’t told what the study was about. They were unaware they would be receiving cash. When you set a system up like this, people are more likely to plan how they can exploit the system.
2. The city had recently built brand new project housing in the area. This means, they had access to tax payer funded housing.
3. Subjects had to be sober with no evidence of drug or alcohol use.
4. They combined the data for “ease of data collection”. We don’t know how much the coaching, education, and other help played a role.
5. Study was only 1 year. “The Churn” is a reference to the cycle of homelessness. Generally speaking, there is an underlying reason each individual is homeless. Until the root cause of each individual is addressed, the likelihood of repeat homelessness is extremely high. In other words, something like mental health care could be necessary.
6. As stated above, this study selected individuals who would specifically have a good chance of getting out of homelessness. The length of time, the root cause etc all impacted who they selected. In other words, they chose the exceptions to the rule.
There is more to address with the study, but the bottom line is, the total costs weren’t addressed, and the study was done in VERY ideal circumstances, like convenient low cost housing and candidates who would have been more likely to pull themselves out of homelessness.
08-31-2023, 11:52 AM
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#102
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Exactly, it's like when they talk about Norway and their prisons.......The problem with these comparisons is that very large countries expose weaknesses that very small countries do not. Finland has a population of 5.5m, where as the US is 330m+. Much
When we look at studies of small group and large group, as well as small country vs large country, the results are EXTREMELY different. The smaller the group, the more likely you are to get people to move towards a common goal for the sake of the group. This is the biggest problem with communism and socialism. The small/large group/country study results apply. You may be able to get a small group or country to pull it off, but the results of a large group/country has the OPPOSITE outcome.
I like to use the Amish as an example. Do you ever wonder why their community never really grows? Why, the larger the population, the more people leave?
When we look at studies of small group and large group, as well as small country vs large country, the results are EXTREMELY different. The smaller the group, the more likely you are to get people to move towards a common goal for the sake of the group. This is the biggest problem with communism and socialism. The small/large group/country study results apply. You may be able to get a small group or country to pull it off, but the results of a large group/country has the OPPOSITE outcome.
I like to use the Amish as an example. Do you ever wonder why their community never really grows? Why, the larger the population, the more people leave?
Im sure that would work here in the US, "Hey Jay Jay, you just committed aggravated armed robbery, let's put you up in a first class dorm like setting, so you won't ever do this again, tell your friends what happens to those who commit violent felonies."
08-31-2023, 11:52 AM
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#103
08-31-2023, 11:56 AM
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#104
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
Finland had approx 3500 homeless and no illegal scum problem. You don't find too many Africans and Eastern EuropeN leeches moving to FinlandFinland is the country which had the most success in eliminating homelessness and they did it by just providing the homeless with decent housing. No endless hoops to jump through prior, they start off by giving them a place to live and then support them to get the rest of their lives (addiction, jobs etc) together. And it worked staggeringly well.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
I've always supported a guaranteed minimum income type policy but I'm not sure it's the panacea to ending homelessness.
California has close to 200k homeless. We gonna build them all homes?
What about the illegal criminals that come access the border, build them somewhere nice too, maybe with a swimming pool as well?
Scubastevo :-What percentage of women have STDs? (serious) If I just wanted to go bareback with any girl that I could get with, what are my chances of ending up bed ridden with STDs?
08-31-2023, 11:58 AM
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#105
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
You conveniently didn’t start the discussion. You simply selected text that would support a specific narrative.The full study is linked in the OP.
Is it wrong to think people would read more than the title before commenting?
Is it wrong to think people would read more than the title before commenting?
Someone who was truly interested in science would have read the study, posted it, and made reasonable and logical assessments of the study. Instead you attempted to let the given text make the argument for you. In other words, you cherry picked the study to meet your own personal beliefs. You displayed no critical thinking skills whatsoever, making you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.
You show all of the signs of being a socialist.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 12:00 PM
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#106
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Originally Posted By freeheeler⏩
Shocked that the Korean migrant/socialist would leave out certain bits of facts.....Finland had approx 3500 homeless and no illegal scum problem. You don't find too many Africans and Eastern EuropeN leeches moving to Finland
California has close to 200k homeless. We gonna build them all homes?
What about the illegal criminals that come access the border, build them somewhere nice too, maybe with a swimming pool as well?
California has close to 200k homeless. We gonna build them all homes?
What about the illegal criminals that come access the border, build them somewhere nice too, maybe with a swimming pool as well?
08-31-2023, 12:02 PM
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#107
- Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Well, he IS Canadian..... that was allegedly against the lock downs, but was also against the trucker protest.You conveniently didn’t start the discussion. You simply selected text that would support a specific narrative.
Someone who was truly interested in science would have read the study, posted it, and made reasonable and logical assessments of the study. Instead you attempted to let the given text make the argument for you. In other words, you cherry picked the study to meet your own personal beliefs. You displayed no critical thinking skills whatsoever, making you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.
You show all of the signs of being a socialist.
Someone who was truly interested in science would have read the study, posted it, and made reasonable and logical assessments of the study. Instead you attempted to let the given text make the argument for you. In other words, you cherry picked the study to meet your own personal beliefs. You displayed no critical thinking skills whatsoever, making you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.
You show all of the signs of being a socialist.
08-31-2023, 12:24 PM
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#108
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I pasted the abstract and a link to the full textYou conveniently didn’t start the discussion. You simply selected text that would support a specific narrative.
Someone who was truly interested in science would have read the study, posted it, and made reasonable and logical assessments of the study. Instead you attempted to let the given text make the argument for you. In other words, you cherry picked the study to meet your own personal beliefs. You displayed no critical thinking skills whatsoever, making you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.
You show all of the signs of being a socialist.
Someone who was truly interested in science would have read the study, posted it, and made reasonable and logical assessments of the study. Instead you attempted to let the given text make the argument for you. In other words, you cherry picked the study to meet your own personal beliefs. You displayed no critical thinking skills whatsoever, making you guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.
You show all of the signs of being a socialist.
It seems jimmies were rustled
08-31-2023, 12:41 PM
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#109
- engj
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
You conveniently didn’t start the discussion. You simply selected text that would support a specific narrative.
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Correction, he has done this thousands of times. This was a normal lifting miscer's account who dissapeared in 2013, you can see the last original post hereWell, he IS Canadian..... that was allegedly against the lock downs, but was also against the trucker protest.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1018393403
The account then went dead for 8 years until the current poster gained access. Probably had 1234 as his password.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/searc...3&pp=&page=513
Since then they have made 15-16k posts on covid, vaccines, and any other hot button topic the misc is discussing.
The formula is easy to see. Pick an inflammatory subject, find an online article you can take a statement out of context with some technical element of truth in an statistically insignificant situation, then answer every reactionary post to it with inane or irrelevant vaguely condescending questions and smiley faces.
Rinse and repeat.
You guys fill up hundreds of pages in this autistic energy vampire's threads and then wonder why he never stops posting.
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08-31-2023, 12:49 PM
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#110
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I pasted the abstract and a link to the full text
It seems jimmies were rustled
It seems jimmies were rustled
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
So were you fooled? Are you admitting ignorance, or are you naive?I get why you don't like the results
"Study counters public perception that cash would just be spent on drugs and booze"
"Study counters public perception that cash would just be spent on drugs and booze"
Not rustled at all. It’s just difficult to accept your criticisms when you lack merit to do so.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 12:52 PM
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#111
- Cleveland33
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Originally Posted By engj⏩
DamnCorrection, he has done this thousands of times. This was a normal lifting miscer's account who dissapeared in 2013, you can see the last original post here
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1018393403
The account then went dead for 8 years until the current poster gained access. Probably had 1234 as his password.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/searc...3&pp=&page=513
Since then they have made 15-16k posts on covid, vaccines, and any other hot button topic the misc is discussing.
The formula is easy to see. Pick an inflammatory subject, find an online article you can take a statement out of context with some technical element of truth in an statistically insignificant situation, then answer every reactionary post to it with inane or irrelevant vaguely condescending questions and smiley faces.
Rinse and repeat.
You guys fill up hundreds of pages in this autistic energy vampire's threads and then wonder why he never stops posting.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showt...post1018393403
The account then went dead for 8 years until the current poster gained access. Probably had 1234 as his password.
https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/searc...3&pp=&page=513
Since then they have made 15-16k posts on covid, vaccines, and any other hot button topic the misc is discussing.
The formula is easy to see. Pick an inflammatory subject, find an online article you can take a statement out of context with some technical element of truth in an statistically insignificant situation, then answer every reactionary post to it with inane or irrelevant vaguely condescending questions and smiley faces.
Rinse and repeat.
You guys fill up hundreds of pages in this autistic energy vampire's threads and then wonder why he never stops posting.
08-31-2023, 12:53 PM
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#112
08-31-2023, 12:54 PM
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#113
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Fooled by what?So were you fooled? Are you admitting ignorance, or are you naive?
Not rustled at all. It’s just difficult to accept your criticisms when you lack merit to do so.
Not rustled at all. It’s just difficult to accept your criticisms when you lack merit to do so.
Accept which criticisms?
08-31-2023, 12:56 PM
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#114
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Originally Posted By freeheeler⏩
That's now, after their strategy worked. They had over 20,000 homeless people in the 1980s, with a then population of 4.7 million (around 0.42%).Finland had approx 3500 homeless and no illegal scum problem. You don't find too many Africans and Eastern EuropeN leeches moving to Finland
California has close to 200k homeless. We gonna build them all homes?
What about the illegal criminals that come access the border, build them somewhere nice too, maybe with a swimming pool as well?
California has close to 200k homeless. We gonna build them all homes?
What about the illegal criminals that come access the border, build them somewhere nice too, maybe with a swimming pool as well?
California today has around 170k homeless with a population of 40 million, also around 0.42%. Proportionally identical to Finland before they came up with a solution.
Numbers might be difficult for retards, but this isn't an excuse for such poor attempts at reasoning.
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BTC to $200k
08-31-2023, 12:58 PM
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#115
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Originally Posted By Cleveland33⏩
Its tougher to spot online because, its not like you can see his heavy breathing and excited hand-flapping every time someone goes for the bait.Damn
And you will never get through a debate with someone like this, because other posters getting enraged at endless pointless circular reasoning and discussions is the point. We have 16k posts as evidence, we should all adjust our ignore lists accordingly and move on with our fukcing lives.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
It's more a passing interest in the specific pathology.Thanks for taking interest in what I post, I guess
I also like some of the posters here, I hate seeing them grind away their time scratching this itch you can't ever resolve in your brain.
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08-31-2023, 01:05 PM
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#116
Originally Posted By engj⏩
People who struggle with opposing views can take advantage of the ignore feature.Its tougher to spot online because, its not like you can see his heavy breathing and excited hand-flapping every time someone goes for the bait.
And you will never get through a debate with someone like this, because other posters getting enraged at endless pointless circular reasoning and discussions is the point. We have 16k posts as evidence, we should all adjust our ignore lists accordingly and move on with our fukcing lives.
It's more a passing interest in the specific pathology.
I also like some of the posters here, I hate seeing them grind away their time scratching this itch you can't ever resolve in your brain.
And you will never get through a debate with someone like this, because other posters getting enraged at endless pointless circular reasoning and discussions is the point. We have 16k posts as evidence, we should all adjust our ignore lists accordingly and move on with our fukcing lives.
It's more a passing interest in the specific pathology.
I also like some of the posters here, I hate seeing them grind away their time scratching this itch you can't ever resolve in your brain.
Others seem to enjoy playing a hypocritical patriarchal role in telling people what to do and think. Everybody's different
08-31-2023, 01:10 PM
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#117
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Interest? More like spotting the ultra left talking pointsThanks for taking interest in what I post, I guess
Scubastevo :-What percentage of women have STDs? (serious) If I just wanted to go bareback with any girl that I could get with, what are my chances of ending up bed ridden with STDs?
08-31-2023, 01:13 PM
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#118
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
That answers my question.Fooled by what?
Accept which criticisms?
Accept which criticisms?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 01:13 PM
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#119
Originally Posted By freeheeler⏩
The stalking is creepy, but also a little flattering (mostly creepy tho). It's interesting that all folks have are attempts at character attacks.Interest? More like spotting the ultra left talking points
It's also curious that the only explanation for someone who doesn't toe the line of the popular narrative is some kind of conspiracy theory
08-31-2023, 01:17 PM
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#120
- rampagefc77
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Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I think the issue in setting up systems where the US taxpayer helps the homeless and less fortunate is that we have wide open borders and millions flood in each year. So if we have a never ending onslaught of illegal immigrants, who now all qualify for great beenfits off of the backs of the american middle class which is struggling, it will be completely unsustainable. The same is true to healthcare and other services.The problem with these comparisons is that very large countries expose weaknesses that very small countries do not. Finland has a population of 5.5m, where as the US is 330m+. Much
When we look at studies of small group and large group, as well as small country vs large country, the results are EXTREMELY different. The smaller the group, the more likely you are to get people to move towards a common goal for the sake of the group. This is the biggest problem with communism and socialism. The small/large group/country study results apply. You may be able to get a small group or country to pull it off, but the results of a large group/country has the OPPOSITE outcome.
I like to use the Amish as an example. Do you ever wonder why their community never really grows? Why, the larger the population, the more people leave?
When we look at studies of small group and large group, as well as small country vs large country, the results are EXTREMELY different. The smaller the group, the more likely you are to get people to move towards a common goal for the sake of the group. This is the biggest problem with communism and socialism. The small/large group/country study results apply. You may be able to get a small group or country to pull it off, but the results of a large group/country has the OPPOSITE outcome.
I like to use the Amish as an example. Do you ever wonder why their community never really grows? Why, the larger the population, the more people leave?
Now, if we ended illegal immigration, actually vetted a much smaller number of immigrants, and had some stipulations about who gets access to the funds and what they can be used for, I'm all for it. But I don't trust the govt to be competent enough to implement this.
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