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Forum » So...what was BEFORE the big bang exactly?
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Thread: So...what was BEFORE the big bang exactly?

post 1541231911 01-20-2018, 01:11 AM
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How can the Big Bang be real when the universe is a simulation? Scientists who study that chit their entire lives can’t even prove or disprove the existence of mutiverses and parallel dimensions, and you expect miscers to give you a better answer fkn lmao
post 1541232131 01-20-2018, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Sigh. I mean, it's not logically invalid. It's entirely possible that the earth is 8000 years old, and that everything was placed there just to phuck with us. It's possible that all our physical theories are wrong. It's just more plausible that the book was written by men in a time when physics was not as developed. So, they had an incorrect, but seemingly plausible explanation for the creation of the earth and the emergence of life.
read the Bible my friend, some things are mindblowing, reading about the flood now and it says that the continents were all one til this point, and thane broken up and divided, which is what all geologist claim aswell
so how the phuck did some guy thousands of years ago know this, or had a lucky guess
degenmaxx
post 1541232251 01-20-2018, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By JewSeeJohn⏩
Yes, created men in his own image. Notice how it doesn't say women ? That's because it's not literally talking about a physical vessel of a man or women.

Everything in this universe IS pre-determined and follows the laws of physics, including your brain, which is just a really complex chemical reaction. The thing is how you respond to what happens.

This is the topic of free-will. Your wife's 9/10 sloot sister tries to seduce you, do you choose to leave or do you say that you couldn't help your self, when your wife finds out. This is the topic of G-D and The Devil.
It's not exactly predetermined though. It's only approximately predetermined. It's fundamentally random. However, you do not control the randomness. Or rather, if you do have free will, then so do fundamental particles lols. But physicists mean "free will" in the sense of not being predetermined, not in the sense of you getting to choose the outcome. See Kochen and Conway's theorem,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem.

So our universe seems to be the worst possible case: everything is almost completely predetermined, except when you zoom in, at which point, everything is a random af outcome from a set of possibilities. In this sense, nobody really has any true free will, yet the fine details are never really known until measured.
Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant⏩
read the Bible my friend, some things are mindblowing, reading about the flood now and it says that the continents were all one til this point, and thane broken up and divided, which is what all geologist claim aswell
so how the phuck did some guy thousands of years ago know this, or had a lucky guess
Are we going to ignore the fact that the flood myth exists in multiple other cultures predating the bible, and probably originated from a civilization in Mesopotamia that only knew about a single continent?
post 1541232681 01-20-2018, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
It's not exactly predetermined though. It's only approximately predetermined. It's fundamentally random. However, you do not control the randomness. Or rather, if you do have free will, then so do fundamental particles lols. But physicists mean "free will" in the sense of not being predetermined, not in the sense of you getting to choose the outcome. See Kochen and Conway's theorem,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem.

So our universe seems to be the worst possible case: everything is almost completely predetermined, except when you zoom in, at which point, everything is a random af outcome from a set of possibilities. In this sense, nobody really has any true free will, yet the fine details are never really known until measured.



Are we going to ignore the fact that the flood myth exists in multiple other cultures predating the bible, and probably originated from a civilization in Mesopotamia that only knew about a single continent?
eh in the end like i said in first posts, all comes down to what you personally believe in
degenmaxx
post 1541232801 01-20-2018, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant⏩
eh in the end like i said in first posts, all comes down to what you personally believe in
Anyway, I don't want to attack your beliefs m8. I just want people to realize that "we don't know" is gonna be the answer whether you believe in God or not. Bringing up God doesn't answer the questions about the big bang.
post 1541232961 01-20-2018, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted By AVIK777⏩
It works as I've seen in responses
So avoiding his argument and instead changing the subject works? Lol....
Belief without evidence is a fools game.

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post 1541233011 01-20-2018, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Anyway, I don't want to attack your beliefs m8. I just want people to realize that "we don't know" is gonna be the answer whether you believe in God or not. Bringing up God doesn't answer the questions about the big bang.
well most of the Bible to a non believer sounds like fairy tales, esp if they didnt even actually read it themselves
if you are a believer most things are explained very in depth often, starting from day 1 of creation, but not a lot of info before it, except that there was no concept of time,some talk about the holy trinity
but in general not a lot of indepth info about god, which is interesting cuz in many religions every god is described very indepth, very detailed
if bible is a fairy tale they could have done a lot more to make it more believable to the mass
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post 1541233091 01-20-2018, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted By JewSeeJohn⏩
the only way that you could control the randomness (chaos theory??) was if YOU were not actually your physical body but something else that has been entangled to the body, much like a mechanical car doesn't drive it self unless there is a biological driver giving it commands. In which case free will would exist. But you would have you actually believe all that in order to have free will...
Randomness is not the same as chaos. Chaos is when an outcome is very sensitive to initial conditions. This is something very different from randomness, where the outcome is randomly selected from a set of possibilities. Free will as meant by philosophers is usually rooted in that idea that you are saying, that a soul or some other thing is "driving" your biology and every fundamental particle in your body and influencing them to behave a certain way. This, in my view, is indefensible based on the total lack of evidence for such things. In the theorem I linked, "free will" is simply taken to mean "not predetermined." This is very different from the philosophical notion of free will that you are describing. But yeah, I agree. The only way anyone could truly have "control" over themselves is if they were somehow able to control the fundamental particles that comprise them (maybe in the aggregate rather than as individuals).

Even though semantically, it seems that without a soul doing some voodoo, we cannot have free will, it still is possible for a person that believes itself to be conscious to "control itself." For example, you can "choose" not to get up. However, the entirety of the neurological processes that occurred to make that choice happen were purely the result of a bunch of nerves acting a certain way due to genetic determination and the past history of stimuli. You couldn't control and influence the molecules to act the way they did. In this sense, choices are just an illusion. I know why the majority of people need and believe in religion. Without it, life is a bleak, hopeless replication phenomenon, and we are all just automatons with the illusion of choice and self.
post 1541233481 01-20-2018, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Even though semantically, it seems that without a soul doing some voodoo, we cannot have free will, it still is possible for a person that believes itself to be conscious to "control itself." For example, you can "choose" not to get up. However, the entirety of the neurological processes that occurred to make that choice happen were purely the result of a bunch of nerves acting a certain way due to genetic determination and the past history of stimuli. You couldn't control and influence the molecules to act the way they did. In this sense, choices are just an illusion. I know why the majority of people need and believe in religion. Without it, life is a bleak, hopeless replication phenomenon, and we are all just automatons with the illusion of choice and self.
wat, you cant actually believe this, even if i was an atheist and didnt believe in souls and all that
you are telling me you were never in a situation where it could have went both ways but you and your choice decided the outcome?
i mean if you believe that its all pre determined i cant say anything to make you believe otherwise
for example whenever i see Michelle's thread i have a choice to go in and write "worst poster on the misc" or ignore it
degenmaxx
post 1541233761 01-20-2018, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted By JewSeeJohn⏩
no one actually has any choice, including the father that is molesting his 6 year old.
right, enough misc for the day
not sure if srs?
degenmaxx
post 1541234211 01-20-2018, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted By JewSeeJohn⏩
I was merely stating that for true free will to exist it would have to come from a place that is not bound to the same laws of physics as the world that we inhabit.

I do think that you are playing on semantics here, my point was merely that chaos theory suggests nothing is actually random, as everything has an initial beginning and each subsequent step that follows is based off of the prior, now apply this to the big bang, and etc.

I was not claiming that souls exist, but I guess that's what you got from my post. I was speaking hypothetically. We all know that such things don't exist and no one actually has any choice, including the father that is molesting his 6 year old.
I agree with you on the first point. Chaos is different from randomness though. Like I said, chaos has to do with how sensitive a system is to initial conditions. You are right, but quantum theory adds in a layer of randomness to it all. According to quantum theory, while there is an overall deterministic evolution of the state vector, the actual measurements themselves are random.

I know you weren't saying souls exist. What I meant was like you said something would have to "drive" or control the particles to make them behave a certain way. Most people who are religious believe souls do this. Most would say that the father who molests his kid is evil and has a bad soul. I would say he probably has something wrong with his brain. That doesn't excuse him of his guilt. He should still be thrown in jail. The purpose of justice isn't to "punish or destroy evil". It's to promote behaviors that stabilize society. We don't encourage molestation of children because that sort of thing isn't very good for your society. We then invent the word "evil" to describe all that stuff that is undesirable to society.
post 1541234361 01-20-2018, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Most would say that the father who molests his kid is evil and has a bad soul. I would say he probably has something wrong with his brain.
wut,
at best religion would say he was being tested by evil and he gave in, he could have made a different choice
and most of our justice system is influenced by christianity, you can see the remote tribes and the phucked up things they do, like those guys that feed teenage boys semen or something, so it wasnt in human nature to say whats good and wrong
degenmaxx
post 1541234411 01-20-2018, 02:18 AM
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I don't know, but it's all mind bottling.
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post 1541234451 01-20-2018, 02:19 AM
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What was there before God/The Big Bang? No1 knows. How the **** did it all start from nothing? No1 knows.
post 1541235531 01-20-2018, 02:46 AM
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God created everything. The universe is one big intelligent design that only God understands but even he is limited with what he can do with it. What created God? Who knows, perhaps we never will.
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post 1541235701 01-20-2018, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted By 300BLK⏩
God created everything. The universe is one big intelligent design that only God understands but even he is limited with what he can do with it. What created God? Who knows, perhaps we never will.
didnt expect so many religious miscers itt, thought most ppl on misc are atheists
Altho you are slightly wrong, God is all powerfull and all knowing creator
degenmaxx
post 1541236021 01-20-2018, 02:59 AM
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Energy but no spacetime. The big bang makes no sense. Matter/energy has always been around
post 1541236231 01-20-2018, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted By AVIK777⏩
Godmade everything , the Big Bang is a hoaxno proofit exists
Do you even reality brah?
I loe e.
post 1541236311 01-20-2018, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
I agree with you on the first point. Chaos is different from randomness though. Like I said, chaos has to do with how sensitive a system is to initial conditions. You are right, but quantum theory adds in a layer of randomness to it all. According to quantum theory, while there is an overall deterministic evolution of the state vector, the actual measurements themselves are random.

I know you weren't saying souls exist. What I meant was like you said something would have to "drive" or control the particles to make them behave a certain way. Most people who are religious believe souls do this. Most would say that the father who molests his kid is evil and has a bad soul. I would say he probably has something wrong with his brain. That doesn't excuse him of his guilt. He should still be thrown in jail. The purpose of justice isn't to "punish or destroy evil". It's to promote behaviors that stabilize society. We don't encourage molestation of children because that sort of thing isn't very good for your society. We then invent the word "evil" to describe all that stuff that is undesirable to society.
Thanks for ignoring the arguments i tried to make, and instead playing into idiotic reasoning. You cannot apply human logic and reasoning to religion because those who are religious think of God being far superior to any human
post 1541236481 01-20-2018, 03:12 AM
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Nothing
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post 1541236731 01-20-2018, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted By SerbianSickKant⏩
wat, you cant actually believe this, even if i was an atheist and didnt believe in souls and all that
you are telling me you were never in a situation where it could have went both ways but you and your choice decided the outcome?
i mean if you believe that its all pre determined i cant say anything to make you believe otherwise
for example whenever i see Michelle's thread i have a choice to go in and write "worst poster on the misc" or ignore it
You think it's a choice...but it's really just a network of neural tissue. They've done studies on this, and it is possible to predict your choice based on brain activity prior to your conscious awareness that you made the choice. Basically, you act and then rationalize your choice afterwards.
post 1541236821 01-20-2018, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted By jonmcd46⏩
Thanks for ignoring the arguments i tried to make, and instead playing into idiotic reasoning. You cannot apply human logic and reasoning to religion because those who are religious think of God being far superior to any human
God may be superior, but even God is constrained by logic. What was idiotic about my post?
post 1541236871 01-20-2018, 03:23 AM
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post 1541237061 01-20-2018, 03:29 AM
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I stopped caring about this a long time ago. The idea that we can't explain the answer to this question as being as basis for faith is absurd when you have to consider the billions of other variables that are in effect at a much more recent time. Trying to comprehend something that occurred billions of years ago is not for the layman, and only triggers futile circular debate between theists and atheists.

We all have better things to do. Either you have faith, or you don't.
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post 1541237271 01-20-2018, 03:35 AM
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post 1541237661 01-20-2018, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted By Aircommander91⏩
Both atheism and religion are retarded.
post 1541237721 01-20-2018, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted By Aircommander91⏩
Tell me how believing in God is much better.
RIP Pedro Suarez Vertiz. Te queremos Hermano

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post 1541237921 01-20-2018, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted By AVIK777⏩
God made everything , the Big Bang is a hoax no proof it exists
And what is the proof of your Gods existence
post 1541237971 01-20-2018, 03:54 AM
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-Doesn't like the image
-Quotes it forcing everybody to see it multiple times.

Does anyone else want to quote the image without breaking the embed? And don't encourage this guy, look at his sig and title. The guy is clearly indoctrinated if he has to quote scripture.
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post 1541238331 01-20-2018, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted By Fang2⏩
Tell me how believing in God is much better.
the complexity of it all is just too great to believe it could happen by chance.

Crick and Ilya experiment proved life couldn't form by mere chance.

Spoiler!
Ilya Prigogine, chemist-physicist, recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry, wrote: “The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.”(1) That’s right - zero!

Professor Francis Crick, awarded the Nobel Prize for the discovery of DNA, wrote:

An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going.(2)

The trouble is that there are about two thousand enzymes, and the chance of obtaining them all in a random trial is only one part in (10^20)^2,000 = 10^40,000, an outrageously small probability that could not be faced even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup.(3) In terms of complexity, an individual cell is nothing when compared with a system like the mammalian brain.



also the Bible predicts many things happening today, and all other religions corroborate the Bible. If you study you will get astonished at it's perfection.

brb 3 thousand years ago a man in the desert wrote about how men were tempering the DNA of animals with humans and creating hybrid beasts. This is shown in all religions worldwide. Also all religions speak of a great flood, of giants etc.

An atheist would say it's all just coincidence and work of imagination, but what are the odds that totally different cultures with thousands of years span through them and that never came in contact to relate the same events, creatures?



heck. only now humanity begun to work with the DNA code, and as foretold in the Bible, in the end days it will be as in the days of Noah. Mankind are back to creating abominations. Male is becoming female, and female male... all foretold 3 thousand years ago.





"but it must be a coincidence! I don't want to believe I have any responsability over my actions and that I will be accounted for it! I don't want to believe there is a greater power!!"


muh evolution
muh big bang
muh global warming
muh socialism
muh atheism


LMAO
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