11-01-2018, 11:56 AM
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#121
Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
Look at the acceleration to over 350 knots in the first 2 minutes...another graphic had it hitting 350 (tree fiddy) at under 5,000 feet. crazy. Also nose pitching down just after takeoff.Awesome graphic.
In less than 30 seconds the plane nosed down more than 10 degrees (not really significant), nosed up at total of 20 degrees to reach 10 degrees on the up side (not really significant), then nosed down 40 degrees (significant, probably exceeds the limitation for that airframe).
In less than 30 seconds. That must have been a hell of ride. It seems to me (an actual pilot), the quick changes at the end were reactions to try to go back level, but they overreacted. I wonder what caused that first nose down.
If you do not adjust the throttle at all, in a dive the aircraft will increase in speed, and in a climb it will decrease. That is why the speed came up when it nosed down. I am curious to see the altitude deviations that occurred during the last 30 seconds of flight.
In less than 30 seconds the plane nosed down more than 10 degrees (not really significant), nosed up at total of 20 degrees to reach 10 degrees on the up side (not really significant), then nosed down 40 degrees (significant, probably exceeds the limitation for that airframe).
In less than 30 seconds. That must have been a hell of ride. It seems to me (an actual pilot), the quick changes at the end were reactions to try to go back level, but they overreacted. I wonder what caused that first nose down.
If you do not adjust the throttle at all, in a dive the aircraft will increase in speed, and in a climb it will decrease. That is why the speed came up when it nosed down. I am curious to see the altitude deviations that occurred during the last 30 seconds of flight.
It was screwed from the beginning. Nothing could have been indicating right.
11-01-2018, 12:02 PM
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#122
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Originally Posted By Briangumble⏩
Lol wot mate, thats like a company proposing a smart phone and going oh, the president cant even read emails on his nokia 3310 so i dont imagine that being commerical any time soon, boom 10 years later im jerking off in the train toilet to all of the porn in the world cus i can.That's a cool design but if Air Force One doesn't even have something like that I can't imagine it ever being introduced to commercial airliners.
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11-01-2018, 12:13 PM
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#123
11-01-2018, 12:18 PM
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#124
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Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
Bro, the lift stall speed for that aircraft is probably just under 350. That acceleration was take off, lol.Look at the acceleration to over 350 knots in the first 2 minutes...another graphic had it hitting 350 (tree fiddy) at under 5,000 feet. crazy. Also nose pitching down just after takeoff.
It was screwed from the beginning. Nothing could have been indicating right.
It was screwed from the beginning. Nothing could have been indicating right.
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11-01-2018, 12:21 PM
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#125
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Originally Posted By Ayz33⏩
That actually makes sense. Are you familiar with what kind of pitot/static systems this aircraft has. I am sure it has to have at least 2 ports for each, and some type of self analyzing system that can detect deviations and erroneous information. However, I am not familiar with the systems on that specific aircraft.Some sort of system failure giving the pilots false/erroneous info. Pitot/static related?
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11-01-2018, 12:23 PM
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#126
Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
250 knot speed limit under 10,000 feet. that fast that soon is not normal. takeoff speed around 140 knots.Bro, the lift stall speed for that aircraft is probably just under 350. That acceleration was take off, lol.
11-01-2018, 12:30 PM
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#127
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Originally Posted By Retoaded⏩
So that is FAA, does that apply to ICAO as well?250 knot speed limit under 10,000 feet. that fast that soon is not normal. takeoff speed around 140 knots.
I fly helicopters. I think the fastest I have ever gone was about 160 kts. So I never really had to pay attention to that.
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11-01-2018, 12:44 PM
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#128
Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
I am not sure. I am like partway to a PPL so I don't know dik about anything but a cessna 172. I do fly the big boys on X-Plane 11 a good bit and I don't think that speed, that low, is anywhere near normal operation.So that is FAA, does that apply to ICAO as well?
I fly helicopters. I think the fastest I have ever gone was about 160 kts. So I never really had to pay attention to that.
I fly helicopters. I think the fastest I have ever gone was about 160 kts. So I never really had to pay attention to that.
Planolifter on the misc is a 767 airline pilot, he could tell us.
11-08-2018, 02:44 AM
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#129
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On 2 November, the joint search and rescue team deployed more than 850 personnel and 45 vessels, some were equipped with cranes, to the crash site. The aerial search area was widened to 190 nautical miles and the "underwater search area" was widened to 270 nautical miles.[85] Joint search and rescue team announced that some engine parts were found in the search area.[86] One of the aircraft's landing gear was recovered on the afternoon.[87] Meanwhile, the Disaster Victim Identification team stated that at least 250 body parts had been recovered from the crash site.[88]
On 3 November, it was reported that a volunteer Indonesian rescue diver had died during the search, on the afternoon of 2 November.[89] It is believed he died from decompression.[90]
A second landing gear and both of the aircraft's engines were able to be recovered by search and rescue personnel, while the main body of the aircraft had been located by authorities. The main body of the aircraft was located 7.5 miles from the coast of Tanjung Pakis and was located around 200 meters from the location where the FDR was discovered. Divers were immediately dispatched to the area. Faint "pings" from the aircraft's CVR were also heard.[91][92][93][94]
On 4 November, nearly 1,400 personnel, including 175 divers, were dispatched to the crash site. 69 ships, 5 helicopters and 30 ambulances were also dispatched. [95] The Head of the Indonesian National Search and Rescue Agency Muhammad Syaugi announced that the search and rescue operation would be extended for another three day.[96]
On 3 November, it was reported that a volunteer Indonesian rescue diver had died during the search, on the afternoon of 2 November.[89] It is believed he died from decompression.[90]
A second landing gear and both of the aircraft's engines were able to be recovered by search and rescue personnel, while the main body of the aircraft had been located by authorities. The main body of the aircraft was located 7.5 miles from the coast of Tanjung Pakis and was located around 200 meters from the location where the FDR was discovered. Divers were immediately dispatched to the area. Faint "pings" from the aircraft's CVR were also heard.[91][92][93][94]
On 4 November, nearly 1,400 personnel, including 175 divers, were dispatched to the crash site. 69 ships, 5 helicopters and 30 ambulances were also dispatched. [95] The Head of the Indonesian National Search and Rescue Agency Muhammad Syaugi announced that the search and rescue operation would be extended for another three day.[96]
11-08-2018, 02:44 AM
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#130
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Read the whole thing below, a lot of details
Detailed reports from the Bali to Jakarta incident, the flight prior to Flight 610, in which the aircraft was involved, revealed that the aircraft had suffered a serious incident. Passengers in the cabin reported heavy shaking and a smell of burnt rubber inside the cabin. At some point, the aircraft had dropped for more than 200 ft in a few seconds. Many of the passengers were left traumatized by the incident.[112] The seat belt sign was never turned off from take off to landing. The ATC recording indicated that the pilot had called for "pan-pan", which experts call as the second highest alert level after Mayday call. However, the crew of the flight decided to continue the flight to Jakarta.[113] A photo of the aircraft's logbook revealed that during that flight, the aircraft suffered an unspecified navigation failure on the pilot's side, while the co-pilot's side was reported to be in good condition.[114]
On 5 November, the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee announced that Flight 610 was still intact when it crashed into the sea and struck at high speed, citing the relatively small size of the debris. The impact was so powerful that the strongest part of the aircraft was obliterated.[115] The committee also stated that the engines of Flight 610 were still running when it impacted the sea,[116] indicated by the high RPM. Further examination on the aircraft's instruments revealed that the aircraft's airspeed indicator had malfunctioned for its last four flights.[117]
On 6 November The Wall Street Journal reported that Boeing and the US Federal Aviation Administration, on the basis of preliminary information gathered in the investigation, were planning to publish warnings, about erroneous angle of attack indications, on cockpit instrument displays of the 737 MAX in response to the Lion Air accident.[118] Report stated that, based on the preliminary findings, the aircraft could abruptly dive by mistake. If there's a malfunction in the aircraft's AOA sensors, the aircraft's computer, which is designed to prevent an aerodynamic stall, may think that the aircraft is stalling. Thus, it may cause an abrupt dive. The Federal Aviation Administration urged every airline which uses the Boeing 737 MAX 8 to heed the warnings.[119]
On 7 November, the National Transportation Safety Committee confirmed that there were problems with Flight 610's angle of attack (AOA) sensors. Initially, the aircraft suffered an airspeed indicator problem for its last 4 flights. The last flight was the Bali to Jakarta flight. Thinking that it would fix the problem, the engineers in Bali then replaced the AOA sensor of the aircraft. However, the problem persisted. A 20 degree difference between the AOA left sensor and right sensor was recorded. The NTSC confirmed that Flight 610 suffered the same problem with the Bali to Jakarta flight. Just minutes after takeoff, the aircraft abruptly dived. The crew of the Bali to Jakarta flight, however, managed to control the aircraft and decided to fly at a lower than normal altitude. The aircraft then managed to land safely.[120] NTSC chief Soerjanto Tjahjono told the press that future reporting or actions enacted to prevent similar problems on similar planes will be up to Boeing and US aviation authorities.[121]
Detailed reports from the Bali to Jakarta incident, the flight prior to Flight 610, in which the aircraft was involved, revealed that the aircraft had suffered a serious incident. Passengers in the cabin reported heavy shaking and a smell of burnt rubber inside the cabin. At some point, the aircraft had dropped for more than 200 ft in a few seconds. Many of the passengers were left traumatized by the incident.[112] The seat belt sign was never turned off from take off to landing. The ATC recording indicated that the pilot had called for "pan-pan", which experts call as the second highest alert level after Mayday call. However, the crew of the flight decided to continue the flight to Jakarta.[113] A photo of the aircraft's logbook revealed that during that flight, the aircraft suffered an unspecified navigation failure on the pilot's side, while the co-pilot's side was reported to be in good condition.[114]
On 5 November, the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee announced that Flight 610 was still intact when it crashed into the sea and struck at high speed, citing the relatively small size of the debris. The impact was so powerful that the strongest part of the aircraft was obliterated.[115] The committee also stated that the engines of Flight 610 were still running when it impacted the sea,[116] indicated by the high RPM. Further examination on the aircraft's instruments revealed that the aircraft's airspeed indicator had malfunctioned for its last four flights.[117]
On 6 November The Wall Street Journal reported that Boeing and the US Federal Aviation Administration, on the basis of preliminary information gathered in the investigation, were planning to publish warnings, about erroneous angle of attack indications, on cockpit instrument displays of the 737 MAX in response to the Lion Air accident.[118] Report stated that, based on the preliminary findings, the aircraft could abruptly dive by mistake. If there's a malfunction in the aircraft's AOA sensors, the aircraft's computer, which is designed to prevent an aerodynamic stall, may think that the aircraft is stalling. Thus, it may cause an abrupt dive. The Federal Aviation Administration urged every airline which uses the Boeing 737 MAX 8 to heed the warnings.[119]
On 7 November, the National Transportation Safety Committee confirmed that there were problems with Flight 610's angle of attack (AOA) sensors. Initially, the aircraft suffered an airspeed indicator problem for its last 4 flights. The last flight was the Bali to Jakarta flight. Thinking that it would fix the problem, the engineers in Bali then replaced the AOA sensor of the aircraft. However, the problem persisted. A 20 degree difference between the AOA left sensor and right sensor was recorded. The NTSC confirmed that Flight 610 suffered the same problem with the Bali to Jakarta flight. Just minutes after takeoff, the aircraft abruptly dived. The crew of the Bali to Jakarta flight, however, managed to control the aircraft and decided to fly at a lower than normal altitude. The aircraft then managed to land safely.[120] NTSC chief Soerjanto Tjahjono told the press that future reporting or actions enacted to prevent similar problems on similar planes will be up to Boeing and US aviation authorities.[121]
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