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Unconditional cash transfers reduce homelessness
08-31-2023, 01:23 PM
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#121
08-31-2023, 01:38 PM
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#122
- freeheeler
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
California has wasted $7b of taxpayers money on the homeless so far. Liberals have made themselves very, very rich thanks to the middle class in CaliforniaHow much money has been spent on the war in Ukraine?
Scubastevo :-What percentage of women have STDs? (serious) If I just wanted to go bareback with any girl that I could get with, what are my chances of ending up bed ridden with STDs?
08-31-2023, 01:40 PM
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#123
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
And now you’re making a strawman.How much money has been spent on the war in Ukraine?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 01:44 PM
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#124
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
No, not really.And now you’re making a strawman.
Do you think money spent on interventionist military strategies might be better spent within the country?
Could the financial aid sent overseas help if spent within the country?
08-31-2023, 01:48 PM
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#125
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Does that make the study any more viable? Is the money going to Ukraine magical or somehow spend differently than money going someplace else?No, not really.
Do you think money spent on interventionist military strategies might be better spent within the country?
Could the financial aid sent overseas help if spent within the country?
Do you think money spent on interventionist military strategies might be better spent within the country?
Could the financial aid sent overseas help if spent within the country?
There are vast amounts of studies that show the source of the money has an impact on how it is spent, but it is still coming from the government, which means it doesn't make a difference. It still fits into the same category of spending.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 01:55 PM
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#126
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Okay.Does that make the study any more viable? Is the money going to Ukraine magical or somehow spend differently than money going someplace else?
There are vast amounts of studies that show the source of the money has an impact on how it is spent, but it is still coming from the government, which means it doesn't make a difference. It still fits into the same category of spending.
There are vast amounts of studies that show the source of the money has an impact on how it is spent, but it is still coming from the government, which means it doesn't make a difference. It still fits into the same category of spending.
One criticism of this study put forth was that it didn't include a lot of people or go on for several years.
Doing either or both of those things would require additional funding.
Couldn't money sent as aid to other countries be used to try this combination approach within the country?
Is it preferable for tax payers' money to leave the country rather than spent within their borders?
08-31-2023, 01:56 PM
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#127
- litljay
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Originally Posted By benedetto27⏩
This. This is the problem with the "study". The screened for drug use, alcohol use, and mental health.Sending money to people who aren’t mentally deranged drug addicts and drunks but just are finding it hard to make ends meet in a place where rent is $3,000 on average for a 1 bedroom box…will help some of them actually make rent.
Wow, mind blowing.
Wow, mind blowing.
We screened 732 participants from 22 shelters from four shelter organizations across Metro Vancouver. Our preregistered screening criteria were: age 19 to 65, homeless for less than 2 y (homelessness defined as the lack of stable housing), Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and nonsevere levels of substance use (DAST-10) (21), alcohol use (AUDIT) (22), and mental health symptoms Colorado Symptom Index (CSI) (23) based on predefined thresholds (see SI Appendix, Table S1 in SI Appendix, section 1.3.2). These screening criteria were used to reduce any potential risks of harm (e.g., overdose) from the cash transfer. To ensure accurate responses, the screening survey was conducted under a cover story without any mention of the cash transfer. Of the 732 participants, 229 passed all criteria (31%). Due to loss of contact with 114 participants despite our repeated attempts to reach them, we successfully enrolled 115 participants in the study as the final sample (50 cash, 65 noncash; see Table 1). The sample size was modest but was nonetheless adequately powered to detect statistically significant effects from the preregistered power analysis (SI Appendix, section 1.1).
Only 30% passed their criteria.You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.
08-31-2023, 01:58 PM
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#128
08-31-2023, 02:06 PM
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#129
- Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
How much more ney have you given to the homeless? Oh wait, you're a socialist, you'd rather use someone else's money.....That's now, after their strategy worked. They had over 20,000 homeless people in the 1980s, with a then population of 4.7 million (around 0.42%).
California today has around 170k homeless with a population of 40 million, also around 0.42%. Proportionally identical to Finland before they came up with a solution.
Numbers might be difficult for retards, but this isn't an excuse for such poor attempts at reasoning.
California today has around 170k homeless with a population of 40 million, also around 0.42%. Proportionally identical to Finland before they came up with a solution.
Numbers might be difficult for retards, but this isn't an excuse for such poor attempts at reasoning.
08-31-2023, 02:07 PM
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#130
- Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
And now we're deflecting......How much money has been spent on the war in Ukraine?
08-31-2023, 02:10 PM
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#131
08-31-2023, 03:10 PM
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#132
- ThePD
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
How about we just keep our own money and are not taxed it?Okay.
One criticism of this study put forth was that it didn't include a lot of people or go on for several years.
Doing either or both of those things would require additional funding.
Couldn't money sent as aid to other countries be used to try this combination approach within the country?
Is it preferable for tax payers' money to leave the country rather than spent within their borders?
One criticism of this study put forth was that it didn't include a lot of people or go on for several years.
Doing either or both of those things would require additional funding.
Couldn't money sent as aid to other countries be used to try this combination approach within the country?
Is it preferable for tax payers' money to leave the country rather than spent within their borders?
08-31-2023, 03:14 PM
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#133
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
America has already attempted many social experiments that are almost exactly the same and they almost all failed. Why should we support yet another that we know has a very high chance of not only failing, but creating unintended and opposite outcomes?Okay.
One criticism of this study put forth was that it didn't include a lot of people or go on for several years.
Doing either or both of those things would require additional funding.
Couldn't money sent as aid to other countries be used to try this combination approach within the country?
Is it preferable for tax payers' money to leave the country rather than spent within their borders?
One criticism of this study put forth was that it didn't include a lot of people or go on for several years.
Doing either or both of those things would require additional funding.
Couldn't money sent as aid to other countries be used to try this combination approach within the country?
Is it preferable for tax payers' money to leave the country rather than spent within their borders?
in the words of Hayek “You have to know what can go right before you can know what can go wrong”. In other words, you want to do a social experiment that contradicts what we know works, and have a pretty good idea of what can go wrong.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 03:15 PM
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#134
Originally Posted By ThePD⏩
That's a view some hold. I think maintaining a cohesive society would be challenging under that system.How about we just keep our own money and are not taxed it?
Anarchy and communism are more similar than they are different, imo.
Both would require evolution in human nature to be tenable, imo.
08-31-2023, 03:17 PM
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#135
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Fair enough.America has already attempted many social experiments that are almost exactly the same and they almost all failed. Why should we support yet another that we know has a very high chance of not only not working, but creating unintended and opposite outcomes?
in the words of Hayek “You have to know what can go right before you can know what can go wrong”. In other words, you want to do a social experiment that contradicts what we know works, and based on what we have a pretty good idea of what can go wrong.
in the words of Hayek “You have to know what can go right before you can know what can go wrong”. In other words, you want to do a social experiment that contradicts what we know works, and based on what we have a pretty good idea of what can go wrong.
You are not alone in feeling your tax dollars are better spent on social programs and/or military support in other nations than at home.
08-31-2023, 03:21 PM
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#136
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
This again? Why do you keep making strawmans and projecting? Do you get paid to troll?Fair enough.
You are not alone in feeling your tax dollars are better spent on social programs and/or military support in other nations than at home.
You are not alone in feeling your tax dollars are better spent on social programs and/or military support in other nations than at home.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 03:29 PM
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#137
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I responded to your rejection of the idea of prioritizing within-nation spending over foreign supportThis again? Why do you keep making strawmans and projecting? Do you get paid to troll?

I don't see much direct ROI of foreign aid for middle class citizens.
You suggested you know what works for homelessness, but haven't yet shared the solution.
08-31-2023, 03:33 PM
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#138
08-31-2023, 03:36 PM
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#139
- TheJimmyRustler
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
This is a total lie, where did he say that he rejects this on the grounds of wanting money spent on foreign support?I responded to your rejection of the idea of prioritizing within-nation spending over foreign support

08-31-2023, 03:37 PM
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#140
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
You're so biased you have no idea where you went wrong in the argument. You literally created an argument out of thin air.I responded to your rejection of the idea of prioritizing within-nation spending over foreign support

One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 03:41 PM
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#141
Originally Posted By Polaris⏩
Stratifying a controlled trial over the various categories of addiction and mental illness would require many more participants, which would be challenging due to attrition and cost, or it would be very difficult to achieve sufficient power....
Experimental design is tricky, but has advantages over observational or quasi-experimental designs.
08-31-2023, 03:42 PM
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#142
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Okay.You're so biased you have no idea where you went wrong in the argument. You literally created an argument out of thin air.
Are you willing to share the homelessness solution to which you referred?
08-31-2023, 03:42 PM
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#143
- Dave22reborn
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- Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
You're trying to use Ukraine as an example? Despite the fact that so many of us are against the aid being sent there?You are?
08-31-2023, 03:44 PM
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#144
- Dave22reborn
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- Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
How would an individual stand out under communism? Where would be the passion to do better under communism? What would be the reward? Since everyone is allegedly equal?That's a view some hold. I think maintaining a cohesive society would be challenging under that system.
Anarchy and communism are more similar than they are different, imo.
Both would require evolution in human nature to be tenable, imo.
Anarchy and communism are more similar than they are different, imo.
Both would require evolution in human nature to be tenable, imo.
08-31-2023, 03:46 PM
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#145
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Do you feel that's different under anarchism?How would an individual stand out under communism? Where would be the passion to do better under communism? What would be the reward? Since everyone is allegedly equal?
08-31-2023, 03:48 PM
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#146
08-31-2023, 03:49 PM
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#147
08-31-2023, 04:11 PM
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#148
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
The least amount of homelessness and inequality has come from capitalism.Okay.
Are you willing to share the homelessness solution to which you referred?
Are you willing to share the homelessness solution to which you referred?
The argument from the socialist is always "well it isn't zero". But the capitalist argues "it is the least of any other system". What we do know, is that absolute arguments have no place in societal issues. You will never have zero crime. You will never have zero poverty, you will never have zero homelessness.
This means that the only thing that we know that works so far, is capitalism. And then we have to dive into what is it about capitalism that works. This is where things become difficult, because if there are fundamental values that have not been imprinted in you, fundamentally, they become very difficult to understand, which leads to disbelief.
By far the easiest author to understand would be Thomas Sowell. He gets straight to the point, and makes you understand that things are not as clear as what you want them to be. Economics is all about trade-offs. If you implement a policy, it comes at a cost, and not just monetary costs. We are talking about creating wealth caps, more poverty, more homelessness as a cost. You have to weigh those costs against the benefit, and many times the cost is not worth it. Read his book Economics Facts and Fallacies as a warm up.
Most main stream economists do not advocate for capitalism because of self interest. For instance, you almost never find a classic liberal economist working in Government, because they understand the harm that government can do, you and if you don't advocate for government fixing all of our economic problems, then there is no job security. Because of this, the MSEs want everyone to believe that government is necessary for everything.
Socialists, Keynesians, monetarists etc., make up a vast majority of main stream economics. Every one of these prescribe government intervention to fix economic problems.
Meanwhile, classic liberals and the Austrian economists understand the trade offs and the cost, so they tend to want to find alternatives to government intervention.
I've barely scratched the surface and have already typed quite a bit. I recommend you read Thomas Sowell, Hayek, and Ludwig von Mises. And when you are finished reading those, you will see government solutions in a whole new light. They will make you think completely different.
In conclusion, we do know what works; capitalism and independent charitable acts, but every social experiment we have done had a great cost that many times does more harm than good.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 04:17 PM
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#149
- Dave22reborn
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- Dave22reborn
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
So all these Migrants camping out in the stations, just give them money and a home?Maybe that's why I'm using it as an example?
And whatever happened to "earning" money?
08-31-2023, 04:22 PM
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#150
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
So the US just isn't capitalist enough?The least amount of homelessness and inequality has come from capitalism.
The argument from the socialist is always "well it isn't zero". But the capitalist argues "it is the least of any other system". What we do know, is that absolute arguments have no place in societal issues. You will never have zero crime. You will never have zero poverty, you will never have zero homelessness.
This means that the only thing that we know that works so far, is capitalism. And then we have to dive into what is it about capitalism that works. This is where things become difficult, because if there are fundamental values that have not been imprinted in you, fundamentally, they become very difficult to understand, which leads to disbelief.
By far the easiest author to understand would be Thomas Sowell. He gets straight to the point, and makes you understand that things are not as clear as what you want them to be. Economics is all about trade-offs. If you implement a policy, it comes at a cost, and not just monetary costs. We are talking about creating wealth caps, more poverty, more homelessness as a cost. You have to weigh those costs against the benefit, and many times the cost is not worth it. Read his book Economics Facts and Fallacies as a warm up.
Most main stream economists do not advocate for capitalism because of self interest. For instance, you almost never find a classic liberal economist working in Government, because they understand the harm that government can do, you and if you don't advocate for government fixing all of our economic problems, then there is no job security. Because of this, the MSEs want everyone to believe that government is necessary for everything.
Socialists, Keynesians, monetarists etc., make up a vast majority of main stream economics. Every one of these prescribe government intervention to fix economic problems.
Meanwhile, classic liberals and the Austrian economists understand the trade offs and the cost, so they tend to want to find alternatives to government intervention.
I've barely scratched the surface and have already typed quite a bit. I recommend you read Thomas Sowell, Hayek, and Ludwig von Mises. And when you are finished reading those, you will see government solutions in a whole new light. They will make you think completely different.
In conclusion, we do know what works; capitalism and independent charitable acts, but every social experiment we have done had a great cost that many times does more harm than good.
The argument from the socialist is always "well it isn't zero". But the capitalist argues "it is the least of any other system". What we do know, is that absolute arguments have no place in societal issues. You will never have zero crime. You will never have zero poverty, you will never have zero homelessness.
This means that the only thing that we know that works so far, is capitalism. And then we have to dive into what is it about capitalism that works. This is where things become difficult, because if there are fundamental values that have not been imprinted in you, fundamentally, they become very difficult to understand, which leads to disbelief.
By far the easiest author to understand would be Thomas Sowell. He gets straight to the point, and makes you understand that things are not as clear as what you want them to be. Economics is all about trade-offs. If you implement a policy, it comes at a cost, and not just monetary costs. We are talking about creating wealth caps, more poverty, more homelessness as a cost. You have to weigh those costs against the benefit, and many times the cost is not worth it. Read his book Economics Facts and Fallacies as a warm up.
Most main stream economists do not advocate for capitalism because of self interest. For instance, you almost never find a classic liberal economist working in Government, because they understand the harm that government can do, you and if you don't advocate for government fixing all of our economic problems, then there is no job security. Because of this, the MSEs want everyone to believe that government is necessary for everything.
Socialists, Keynesians, monetarists etc., make up a vast majority of main stream economics. Every one of these prescribe government intervention to fix economic problems.
Meanwhile, classic liberals and the Austrian economists understand the trade offs and the cost, so they tend to want to find alternatives to government intervention.
I've barely scratched the surface and have already typed quite a bit. I recommend you read Thomas Sowell, Hayek, and Ludwig von Mises. And when you are finished reading those, you will see government solutions in a whole new light. They will make you think completely different.
In conclusion, we do know what works; capitalism and independent charitable acts, but every social experiment we have done had a great cost that many times does more harm than good.
Is there an example of a nation that is or was capitalist enough to not have any homeless people?
Capitalism kind of assumes the proletariat are an unlimited resource.
I get the survival of the fittest angle, it's just not a view I hold.
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