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Forum » What do you think is 'fair'?
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Thread: What do you think is 'fair'?

post 1622908981 11-17-2020, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
Oh he's in this whole process. It's not a secret I'm keeping from him.
So why present it to us? The only reason I can think of is because you're leaning toward making him pay the same amount he was paying while refinancing... And you were hoping for affirmation on that decision.
post 1622909121 11-17-2020, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
That's even bigger mental gymnastics than OP's.
The mental gymnastics is trying to live off of somebody you aren't married to for less than the costs you are incurring. Doesn't work for a roommate, and doesn't work for a male partner unless you are some sort of young in shape pet to an elderly sugar momma

Equating mortgage payments to cost of ownership is for people who don't understand cost of ownership. I get the feeling OP does and is standing her ground because this is just business to her after all

Also OP, if your dude is looking for other options after y'all break up send him my way to pay half rent. I could use a boon of extra cash flow to get the flexibility to move right out of the country if needed. Still gonna be more than $500 tho
post 1622909371 11-17-2020, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
The point is that up or down, 50% should remain the deal. It shouldn't be him ever paying more than what the mortgage is just because he is "used" to paying more.

Same thing if it goes up.

One key thing we're not even discussing is that OP collects equity on this, which will continually increase in value. The guy in question offered to commingle funds and she went "Nah, I'm just going to put the loan in my name." to which he obliged and they made the deal to go 50/50.

So... Yeah, he's an idiot for taking this deal. But it didn't have to get this complicated. She's the one making it complicated. It's not a roommate, it's a long term boyfriend.
Using your dumb logic, if 50% was the deal then refinance for 5 years.
post 1622909411 11-17-2020, 03:14 PM
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There's no right answer here. It depends on many variables.
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post 1622909481 11-17-2020, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
Using your dumb logic, if 50% was the deal then refinance for 5 years.
if you're going to try to be a smartass at least be smart about it

took it to an inane logical extreme
post 1622910161 11-17-2020, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
if you're going to try to be a smartass at least be smart about it

took it to an inane logical extreme
Ok where is it not extreme. Lets say 10 years. Thats a real length of time for a mortgage. So you are saying its fair going from a 50% negotiation at 30 year mortgage at X rate to 10 year at x rate. 50% is still fair correct?
post 1622910351 11-17-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
Ok where is it not extreme. Lets say 10 years. Thats a real length of time for a mortgage. So you are saying its fair going from a 50% negotiation at 30 year mortgage at X rate to 10 year at x rate. 50% is still fair correct?
I like how you got extremely hyperbolic about this. Sure, it'd be "fair", but that doesn't mean it's worth it for him to continue to do.

That's why your post was inane.
post 1622910481 11-17-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
I like how you got extremely hyperbolic about this. Sure, it'd be "fair", but that doesn't mean it's worth it for him to continue to do.

That's why your post was inane.
Conversely, it's not worth it to OP to have a free-riding roommate that she doesn't feel committed enough to to buy a house with, which seems perfectly fair to me.
post 1622910571 11-17-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By DizzySmalls⏩
Conversely, it's not worth it to OP to have a free-riding roommate that she doesn't feel committed enough to to buy a house with, which seems perfectly fair to me.
Paying half the mortgage isn't exactly "free riding"
post 1622910591 11-17-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By wutevs⏩
Maybe I'm simple minded, but is it really that complex?

OP, this is someone you care about, yeah? Why not just lower his contributions to make him more comfortable with the situation and not feel like you're using him? It doesn't sound like money is tight on your end either, so what's a few hundred bucks a month to avoid this headache? It'll be money you have to shell out anyway if he isn't living there.
He makes a lot more than I do about 3x more than I do and you're right. Neither of us are hurting for cash.

I haven't decided which route I'm going to take with the refi. But I don't want to feel used either. The same could be said on his end. If I opt for the 30 yr refi his payments go down even more why wouldn't he just pay what he's paying now since that's the amount he has been paying? If I never decided to refi he would still be paying what he pays now anyway right?

At the end of the day. He and I are looking at it differently. I'm looking at it from a transactional standpoint and he's looking at it from an emotional standpoint. That'll just be something we'll figure out later.
Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
So why present it to us? The only reason I can think of is because you're leaning toward making him pay the same amount he was paying while refinancing... And you were hoping for affirmation on that decision.
Yep. I was leaning to go the 15 year route and save on APR % have the place paid off in the next 5. But I didn't think it was fair to him to have to pay more if my payments went up. So that's why I worded it as such in my original post.

So when he said if your payments go down with the 30 year then I expect to pay 50 % of that instead of what I'm paying now. I was insulted that was his default response. Which is why I wanted to see what the group response was to see if I was being unreasonable.
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post 1622910641 11-17-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
Paying half the mortgage isn't exactly "free riding"
It is with a massive down payment and a refinance to 30 years with equity in the bag.

OP just tell us what state/metro you are around and what the actual amt is, it would probably make it obvious just how much of an underpay he's trying to pull off here
post 1622910791 11-17-2020, 03:28 PM
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I have only read the OP. Busy at work. Im guessing OP (a woman) is the owner?


I just dont imagine many situations where a guy would go and ask a question like OP.


I predict a breakup
post 1622910901 11-17-2020, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
Fun conversation this morning:


Person A is dating person B and they live together. (They are not married)

Person A owns the home they live in. Person B agreed to pay 50% of whatever the mortgage is.

For numbers sake lets say they each pay 500 dollars.

Person A decides to refi their home.

30 Year mortgage gets lower payments (let's say it goes from 1K a month to 500 a month)

15 Year mortgage raises the payments (Let's say it goes from 1k a month to 1,300 a month)



If person A refi for 30 - should person B pay less meaning rent drops from 500 to 250? or pays the same as they pay now? (the 500)

If person A refi for 15 - should person B pay more (650)? or pays the same as they pay now? (the 500)

Let's hear it misc.
The situation is untenable. Dating. Live together. One charges the other rent. No way that doesn't blow up eventually and Opie's question is probably the match to light that stick of TNT.
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post 1622910941 11-17-2020, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted By TypeNirvash⏩
I like how you got extremely hyperbolic about this. Sure, it'd be "fair", but that doesn't mean it's worth it for him to continue to do.

That's why your post was inane.
Are you saying a 10 year is hyperbolic but 15 is not?
I hope you never have to negotiate any type of significant deal in real life.
post 1622911031 11-17-2020, 03:31 PM
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Do you see the relationship going the distance?

If YES: if you refinanced for higher monthly payments, keep his rent the same (unless you are hurting for cash, in which case you should discuss this with him). If you refinanced for lower payments, lower his rent (maybe something between $500 and $250?)

If NO: raise his rent/keep it the same.

It's that simple.
post 1622911101 11-17-2020, 03:32 PM
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None of the above. Person B can get their own place, Felicia.
post 1622911111 11-17-2020, 03:32 PM
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Mind = blown how many of you think homie doesn't need to pay for chit for living with opie. lmao.

They're not married and he's benefiting by lower living costs by cohabitating.
Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
Both of you fail to note that person B benefits by significant lower cost of living even with paying half of the 'mortgage'. It's still significantly cheaper than living by himself which is WHY he originally agreed to this to begin with. Trust me - he knew that he benefited from it too. Don't be mistaken.
^^ This right here. Read it again weirdos.

If the shoe was on the other foot, all you miscers would be like "why isn't she paying rent?!?!"
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post 1622911141 11-17-2020, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
He makes a lot more than I do about 3x more than I do and you're right. Neither of us are hurting for cash.

I haven't decided which route I'm going to take with the refi. But I don't want to feel used either. The same could be said on his end. If I opt for the 30 yr refi his payments go down even more why wouldn't he just pay what he's paying now since that's the amount we originally agreed on? If I never decided to refi he would still be paying what he pays now anyway right?

At the end of the day. He and I are looking at it differently. I'm looking at it from a transactional standpoint and he's looking at it from an emotional standpoint. That'll just be something we'll figure out later.



Yep. I was leaning to go the 15 year route and save on APR % have the place paid off in the next 5. But I didn't think it was fair to him to have to pay more if my payments went up. So that's why I worded it as such in my original post.

So when he said if your payments go down with the 30 year then I expect to pay 50 % of that instead of what I'm paying now. I was insulted that was his default response. Which is why I wanted to see what the group response was to see if I was being unreasonable.
I mean, look, I'm giving you crap about this because you're treating your relationship transactionally.

That's not a move that somebody looking to build a future with another person interacts with them.

It's weird that you would even try to look at it this way, and the fact that he responded the way he did sounds like it was because you're thinking about it in a way that benefits you the most and not what would benefit both of you.

That's not a partnership.
post 1622911211 11-17-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
He makes a lot more than I do about 3x more than I do and you're right. Neither of us are hurting for cash.

I haven't decided which route I'm going to take with the refi. But I don't want to feel used either. The same could be said on his end. If I opt for the 30 yr refi his payments go down even more why wouldn't he just pay what he's paying now since that's the amount he has been paying? If I never decided to refi he would still be paying what he pays now anyway right?

At the end of the day. He and I are looking at it differently. I'm looking at it from a transactional standpoint and he's looking at it from an emotional standpoint. That'll just be something we'll figure out later.



Yep. I was leaning to go the 15 year route and save on APR % have the place paid off in the next 5. But I didn't think it was fair to him to have to pay more if my payments went up. So that's why I worded it as such in my original post.

So when he said if your payments go down with the 30 year then I expect to pay 50 % of that instead of what I'm paying now. I was insulted that was his default response. Which is why I wanted to see what the group response was to see if I was being unreasonable.
You should seriously consider ending the relationship now. If you cant get through something as small as this, it only gets exponentially harder.
post 1622911241 11-17-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
Are you saying a 10 year is hyperbolic but 15 is not?
I hope you never have to negotiate any type of significant deal in real life.
more hyperbole look at that

the worst is that we're not even of different views about this truthfully as illustrated above
post 1622911301 11-17-2020, 03:34 PM
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“But I don't want to feel used either.”

But you’re not being used. You’re benefitting from him paying 50%. That’s 50% back in your pocket for whatever you want to spend it on. I’m failing to see how you’re being used in this instance.

You’re comparing your ‘market value’ to other renters. You’re trying to be in a relationship...not a real estate mogul. This is a very strange point of view.
post 1622911481 11-17-2020, 03:36 PM
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Opie, refi for 30 years, but continue charging him $500. Why? Because the total of living costs far exceed that $500 even with the refi.
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post 1622911651 11-17-2020, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted By TallTigerTwo⏩
“But I don't want to feel used either.”

But you’re not being used. You’re benefitting from him paying 50%. That’s 50% back in your pocket for whatever you want to spend it on. I’m failing to see how you’re being used in this instance.

You’re comparing your ‘market value’ to other renters. You’re trying to be in a relationship...not a real estate mogul. This is a very strange point of view.
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post 1622911971 11-17-2020, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
Ok where is it not extreme. Lets say 10 years. Thats a real length of time for a mortgage. So you are saying its fair going from a 50% negotiation at 30 year mortgage at X rate to 10 year at x rate. 50% is still fair correct?
This is pretty much my logic.


Agreeing to paying 50% of a thousand bucks isnt the same as agreeing to paying 50% of any amount of money. I dont get why are people being so obtuse about this.

"Want to pay half of my mortgage and we live together?"
"Well, whats your mortgage?"
"$1000"
"Yeah i can do that, lets move in"



Thats the deal, at the end of the day person b agreed to pay 500 dollars which it also happens to be 50% of the mortgage. Nothing should change for person B regardless of if it goes up or down

Originally Posted By donblaximus⏩
You should seriously consider ending the relationship now. If you cant get through something as small as this, it only gets exponentially harder.
She wont end it because shes getting simp dick 3x a week and half her motgage getting paid. Unless Chads come into the picture then nothing is going to change for that relationship.
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post 1622912071 11-17-2020, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
No obligation. He can move his crap out tomorrow and I'm perfectly fine paying my bills.

Both of you fail to note that person B benefits by significant lower cost of living even with paying half of the 'mortgage'. It's still significantly cheaper than living by himself which is WHY he originally agreed to this to begin with. Trust me - he knew that he benefited from it too. Don't be mistaken.
This is a valid point.

Let's say a mortgage a home owner had was $1,000 / month. They decide to rent the place out. How much combined money do you think the landlord would expect from the tenants to rent that entire house? Probably like $1,500 /month plus most/all of the utility bills.

That means that in a hypothetical like OP's, the partner paying rent to live with their romantic partner who owns the house is already paying like $1k less per month in rent to live with their romantic partner in that house than they would be paying a landlord to let them rent it to themselves. Paying just half of the mortgage is a hell of a deal on rent when you think of it like that. Even where I live where cost of living isn't very expensive, you'd be lucky to net a crappy one bedroom/studio apartment for $500 /mo in rent. So paying 50% of a mortage amounting anywhere close to $500 /mo to live in a nice house with someone that bangs you would be a hell of a deal.
post 1622912111 11-17-2020, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By TallTigerTwo⏩
“But I don't want to feel used either.”

But you’re not being used. You’re benefitting from him paying 50%. That’s 50% back in your pocket for whatever you want to spend it on. I’m failing to see how you’re being used in this instance.

You’re comparing your ‘market value’ to other renters. You’re trying to be in a relationship...not a real estate mogul. This is a very strange point of view.
Very true. OP can’t look at this as being a landlord, which is seems is the case.

Something very important as well is, that there’s ALWAYS two sides to a story. We’re only hearing OPs point of view, and it wouldfor surebe different if we got the boyfriend story as well.

It confuses me why he didn’t wanna buy a smaller house with you, but wanted to buy a huge house? Especially given he literally makes 3x your income... it sounds like buying a smaller house should be of no concern to him.

Debating which is right/wrong is hard with only one side of the story.

Whats for sure is:
1. OP has to stop looking at it at a landlord point of view.
2. OPs boyfriend obviously has to pay something to live with OP.
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post 1622912211 11-17-2020, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By TallTigerTwo⏩
“But I don't want to feel used either.”

But you’re not being used. You’re benefitting from him paying 50%. That’s 50% back in your pocket for whatever you want to spend it on. I’m failing to see how you’re being used in this instance.

You’re comparing your ‘market value’ to other renters. You’re trying to be in a relationship...not a real estate mogul. This is a very strange point of view.
There's two clear camps in this thread, both with men and women in them. This is a values thing. If you want the pure mathematics of it with no adjustment for relationship discounts, then OP is dead on correct. If you think that OP should just be paying for the house since she wanted it anyways and anything he pays is a bonus, then you are in a completely different frame of reference where you can't have financial self-interest in a relationship.

For my camp, a house is a long term investment with a contract. A relationship without marriage can be broken off on a whim at any time and has no contract. Don't mix
post 1622912501 11-17-2020, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted By DizzySmalls⏩
There's two clear camps in this thread, both with men and women in them. This is a values thing. If you want the pure mathematics of it with no adjustment for relationship discounts, then OP is dead on correct. If you think that OP should just be paying for the house since she wanted it anyways and anything he pays is a bonus, then you are in a completely different frame of reference where you can't have financial self-interest in a relationship.

For my camp, a house is a long term investment with a contract. A relationship without marriage can be broken off on a whim at any time and has no contract. Don't mix
I'm in agreement that it was a stupid move
post 1622912841 11-17-2020, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
If you don't adjust for the relationship, then it's considered a tenancy, and landlord/tenant laws apply.



Too bad for OP, I guess.

Imagine wrecking your relationship over trying to get $150/month out of someone.
I can't and that's why I'm genuinely surprised
post 1622913071 11-17-2020, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted By littlemissy⏩
He makes a lot more than I do about 3x more than I do and you're right. Neither of us are hurting for cash.

I haven't decided which route I'm going to take with the refi. But I don't want to feel used either. The same could be said on his end. If I opt for the 30 yr refi his payments go down even more why wouldn't he just pay what he's paying now since that's the amount he has been paying? If I never decided to refi he would still be paying what he pays now anyway right?

At the end of the day. He and I are looking at it differently. I'm looking at it from a transactional standpoint and he's looking at it from an emotional standpoint. That'll just be something we'll figure out later.
Yeah, at the end of the day, the house is yours. If it were me, I would prob ask the bf to pay utility bills while I worry about the mortgage from the start. I tend to lean more towards the emotional aspect of this though and not the business transaction mindset. I think if you're both making good money, some give and take needs to take place before this gets ugly/out of hand. Sounds like you two are pretty set in your views though. So hell, maybe just don't refi and end this convo altogether. But doing so will only mean that you both don't care enough about the other to compromise on this, so it may be time to reeval the relationship.
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