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UFC 284: Makhachev vs. Volkanovski discussion thread
02-12-2023, 04:53 AM
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#151
02-12-2023, 05:13 AM
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#152
- DavinasDildo
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- DavinasDildo
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imagine the casual miscer meltdown if this had happened in the middle east 😂
the hometown hero lost so you know it was fair judging lmaooo
the hometown hero lost so you know it was fair judging lmaooo
02-12-2023, 05:24 AM
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#153
02-12-2023, 06:12 AM
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#154
Originally Posted By Gizzyhardcore⏩
Volk should stay p4p #1. If someone the next weight class up just squeaks by you, and looks on the verge of losing as the fight ended, hanging on for life, the lighter person should be considered p4p better. in my opinion.Islam going to go to sleep tonight as the "p4p no 1" but know he had to panic wrestle and grapple stall a 145'er, and end up on his back taking punches to the face as the fight ended.
Volk is levels above Islam.
Volk is levels above Islam.
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02-12-2023, 06:20 AM
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#155
Originally Posted By taskmob⏩
The fight gave me a lot more hope for dariush. he had amazing take down defense vs gamrot who some might say is almost on islams level wrestling-wise.Idk I'm pretty excited for Islam vs Dariush if Dariush beats charles but I think they should run this fight back
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02-12-2023, 06:26 AM
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#156
hypothetical question for you guys:
I think the 10 point must system is stupid. a better system might be what percentage of the round a fighter won, or something along those lines. You adjust up the percentage for knockdowns or nearly finished submissions. Say it's out of 100.
Say one fighter won 4 rounds 55-45, then lost the last round 10-90. So total points would be 230 - 270. And the fighter loses the fight even though they won 4 rounds. Does that system make more sense? I think if 4 rounds are razor close and one fighter barely loses all 4 of them, but then dominates the last round, they won the fight.
Again not saying that's what happened here, but I think there was only one dominant round of the fight. I missed round 2 because of my ... internet... though.
I think the 10 point must system is stupid. a better system might be what percentage of the round a fighter won, or something along those lines. You adjust up the percentage for knockdowns or nearly finished submissions. Say it's out of 100.
Say one fighter won 4 rounds 55-45, then lost the last round 10-90. So total points would be 230 - 270. And the fighter loses the fight even though they won 4 rounds. Does that system make more sense? I think if 4 rounds are razor close and one fighter barely loses all 4 of them, but then dominates the last round, they won the fight.
Again not saying that's what happened here, but I think there was only one dominant round of the fight. I missed round 2 because of my ... internet... though.
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02-12-2023, 06:28 AM
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#157
- Kokanee
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Islam won 3-2, but Volk is better pound for pound.
Volk if he never made that mistake in R4 or never got staggered in R2 could've easily won (even some people still had Volk winning) despite being a FW while Islam kills himself to make LW and has the frame of a WW.
Reverse the sizes (make Volk 10 lbs bigger than Islam) and Volk would've utterly dominated.
Volk if he never made that mistake in R4 or never got staggered in R2 could've easily won (even some people still had Volk winning) despite being a FW while Islam kills himself to make LW and has the frame of a WW.
Reverse the sizes (make Volk 10 lbs bigger than Islam) and Volk would've utterly dominated.
02-12-2023, 06:36 AM
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#158
- Kokanee
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Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
Nah look at how Oliveira handled Poirier with wrestling/grappling. His TDD is poor and so is his ability to get back up. He has a good d'arce choke and good enough offensive wrestling to take down/gnp Conor, but I don't think he matches up well with Islam.Islam didn't look undefeatable tbh. Maybe bad weight cut or he simply hasn't faced adversity before. I think DP takes him if they face each-other. Volk did good, just didn't identify when Islam started getting tired mid round 4 and ducked for takedowns. Uppercuts would have been nice there.
Armchair MMA expert out
Armchair MMA expert out
I give the wrestlers in the division a better chance. Islam has good striking, but he's chinny.
02-12-2023, 06:36 AM
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#159
check out the fight stats: there's definitely an argument that volk won overall. 4 takedowns leading to no submissions attempts or strike advantage is worth... what? That's a flaw in the ufc rules imo. Takedowns doing no damage and having no submissions attempts should be worth less.
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
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02-12-2023, 06:59 AM
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#160
The fight was very strange to score. I can't stand Islam but it wasn't a robbery. He won 3 rounds imo. At the same time, Volk looked like the better fighter in terms of skills and cardio. MMA judging is mostly based on damage these days and unfortunately for Volk, Islam timed him perfectly quite a few times and landed clean, eye catching shots. Volk even acknowledged most of them.
There's no way you can claim that Islam is #1 p4p now though. It makes no sense. An equally sized Volk obviously reks him badly.
There's no way you can claim that Islam is #1 p4p now though. It makes no sense. An equally sized Volk obviously reks him badly.
02-12-2023, 07:02 AM
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#161
- dingler
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
Agreed and I’m a huge Islam nut hugger. I knew Alex was great but I didn’t realize he was that great. He is amazing everywhere. The only separating factor was islam being able to handle volks striking power better than Volk was able to handle Islams. Islam had slightly more dominate grappling overall but Volk was right there with him the entire fight.Volk should stay p4p #1. If someone the next weight class up just squeaks by you, and looks on the verge of losing as the fight ended, hanging on for life, the lighter person should be considered p4p better. in my opinion.
Run it back!
no crew crew
02-12-2023, 08:10 AM
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#162
Originally Posted By Kokanee⏩
Yeah, maybe not DP unless he works on his strength and late sub escapes. I'm going to throw out a really unpopular opinion here that I've never said out loud but for me Olives is wayyyy overrated. I haven't seen anyone question whether he actually was the #1 guy to take down Islam instead of Dariush. Like Islam said, he gives up very quickly if things are not going his way.Nah look at how Oliveira handled Poirier with wrestling/grappling. His TDD is poor and so is his ability to get back up. He has a good d'arce choke and good enough offensive wrestling to take down/gnp Conor, but I don't think he matches up well with Islam.
I give the wrestlers in the division a better chance. Islam has good striking, but he's chinny.
I give the wrestlers in the division a better chance. Islam has good striking, but he's chinny.
The only legit guys Olives rekt before Islam were DP & Gaethje. Since 2020 he took out Kevin Lee who had 3 losses out of 5 last fights before him, grandpa Tony and wild "I get caught by everyone" Chandler.
I'd like to see Fiziev get up there with Islam after Dariush or even a wild newcomer like Jalin Turner after a couple of wins.
02-12-2023, 08:14 AM
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#163
Originally Posted By Schnitzl⏩
Olivera was near a loss in almost every fight he won the last few years. rocked bad in several. The appeal vs islam was top tier bjj to hopefully counter the wrestling, but how many times do we need to learn bjj loses to wrestling?Yeah, maybe not DP unless he works on his strength and late sub escapes. I'm going to throw out a really unpopular opinion here that I've never said out loud but for me Olives is wayyyy overrated. I haven't seen anyone question whether he actually was the #1 guy to take down Islam instead of Dariush. Like Islam said, he gives up very quickly if things are not going his way.
The only legit guys Olives rekt before Islam were DP & Gaethje. Since 2020 he took out Kevin Lee who had 3 losses out of 5 last fights before him, grandpa Tony and wild "I get caught by everyone" Chandler.
I'd like to see Fiziev get up there with Islam after Dariush or even a wild newcomer like Jalin Turner after a couple of wins.
The only legit guys Olives rekt before Islam were DP & Gaethje. Since 2020 he took out Kevin Lee who had 3 losses out of 5 last fights before him, grandpa Tony and wild "I get caught by everyone" Chandler.
I'd like to see Fiziev get up there with Islam after Dariush or even a wild newcomer like Jalin Turner after a couple of wins.
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02-12-2023, 08:45 AM
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#164
- Barteh
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
Lmao wat. Is this the first MMA event you've ever watched? Islam didn't even beat Charles by wrestlefukkin him, he knocked him down and then submitted him when he was rocked.Olivera was near a loss in almost every fight he won the last few years. rocked bad in several. The appeal vs islam was top tier bjj to hopefully counter the wrestling, buthow many times do we need to learn bjj loses to wrestling?
02-12-2023, 08:48 AM
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#165
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
Did you watch the fight? There were atleast 4 knock downs, 2 to either fighter, Islam had sub attempts from the back, and the majority of volks strikes were meaningless taps when Islam was on his back and in the 5th round.check out the fight stats: there's definitely an argument that volk won overall. 4 takedowns leading to no submissions attempts or strike advantage is worth... what? That's a flaw in the ufc rules imo. Takedowns doing no damage and having no submissions attempts should be worth less.
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
I was 4 to 1 for Islam but after watching the 2nd with volk getting the knock down and most damaging shot, I'd give 2 to volk. Same story for the 3rd except its Islam's. So 3 to 2 to Islam. It was good scoring. No robbery, no conspiracy, a close fight but the decision was correct.
Islam's jump in competition has been insane. This guy went from beating bobby green to beating arguably the best LW champion, to then beating the #1 p4p in their home country. Also the first time he's ever gone 5 rounds. That's Islam's last 3 fights. Bobby green to the #1 p4p.
Put some respect on his name
Fck u james
02-12-2023, 09:36 AM
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#166
- TrueTruth
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
After seeing these shocking stats I'm even more convinced of a total robbery. Unanimous decision my ass, the guy got punched nearly x2 more than he landed and spent the whole night walking backwards.check out the fight stats: there's definitely an argument that volk won overall. 4 takedowns leading to no submissions attempts or strike advantage is worth... what? That's a flaw in the ufc rules imo. Takedowns doing no damage and having no submissions attempts should be worth less.
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
Judges who scored this contest need to be fired and sent to a restaurant to wash dishes. I suspect half of them are closet ****g0ts because they fancy some dude hugging another man for 25 minutes and that's all they need to be happy.
Islam got rekt in the stand up and on the ground. Volk was laughing and making hand gestures throughout the whole fight whenever that assface tried his pathetic choke attempts that were completely worthless. He even talked sh*t to him which was hilarious. All you need is to watch the end of 5th round to see the summary of this fight.
Oh yeah, btw, Volk is 4 inches shorter than him and went up a weight class to fight this fraud. Fuk'n lol
02-12-2023, 09:39 AM
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#167
- akmerle
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Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
Well said. Look at all the different submissions he has finished guys with. He isn’t just a wrestler at all.Lmao wat. Is this the first MMA event you've ever watched? Islam didn't even beat Charles by wrestlefukkin him, he knocked him down and then submitted him when he was rocked.
Islam has a VERY strong submission grappling game that encompasses many aspects of wrestling / sambo / bjj / judo.
02-12-2023, 10:34 AM
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#168
- Barteh
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Originally Posted By akmerle⏩
You can't get away with being one dimensional anymore in today's game. The only one dimensional fighters you might find today in a top 10 is at HW. And even a Derrick Lewis or Mark Hunt kinda fighter probably trains to have some grappling defence at least.Well said. Look at all the different submissions he has finished guys with. He isn’t just a wrestler at all.
Islam has a VERY strong submission grappling game that encompasses many aspects of wrestling / sambo / bjj / judo.
Islam has a VERY strong submission grappling game that encompasses many aspects of wrestling / sambo / bjj / judo.
02-12-2023, 11:19 AM
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#169
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
aside from the very end, Islam was landing the bigger strikes as well. Islam's striking was impressive as hell. Volk really wasn't doing much of anything except being pretty active and moving forward. Add in Islam's control on the ground and the decision is fine.check out the fight stats: there's definitely an argument that volk won overall. 4 takedowns leading to no submissions attempts or strike advantage is worth... what? That's a flaw in the ufc rules imo. Takedowns doing no damage and having no submissions attempts should be worth less.
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
Volk landed more strikes, more significant strikes, and had the only knockdown.
Given current rules Islam won, but i'm not sure he really won the "fight".
02-12-2023, 11:28 AM
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#170
02-12-2023, 11:40 AM
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#171
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Originally Posted By CellyTech⏩
In Pride, Islam wins as well. Islam took him down in the first and only had like a minute on Volk's back...in Pride he would've had like 5 minutes on his back.Pride scoring system and Volk won that fight. I’d like to see a rematch as I think volk would win it.
02-12-2023, 11:56 AM
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#172
Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
If you haven't seen wrestlers dominate all the BJJ prodigies then you don't watch MMA. Stop pretending like you know stuff just because of how that particular fight ended.Lmao wat. Is this the first MMA event you've ever watched? Islam didn't even beat Charles by wrestlefukkin him, he knocked him down and then submitted him when he was rocked.
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02-12-2023, 11:58 AM
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#173
Originally Posted By Gringo12⏩
Did you not watch the fight and see that at least some of the knockdowns on both sides were slips/off balance things rather than true knockdowns? I didn't create the stats, I just posted them, genius.Did you watch the fight? There were atleast 4 knock downs, 2 to either fighter, Islam had sub attempts from the back, and the majority of volks strikes were meaningless taps when Islam was on his back and in the 5th round.
I was 4 to 1 for Islam but after watching the 2nd with volk getting the knock down and most damaging shot, I'd give 2 to volk. Same story for the 3rd except its Islam's. So 3 to 2 to Islam. It was good scoring. No robbery, no conspiracy, a close fight but the decision was correct.
Islam's jump in competition has been insane. This guy went from beating bobby green to beating arguably the best LW champion, to then beating the #1 p4p in their home country. Also the first time he's ever gone 5 rounds. That's Islam's last 3 fights. Bobby green to the #1 p4p.
Put some respect on his name
I was 4 to 1 for Islam but after watching the 2nd with volk getting the knock down and most damaging shot, I'd give 2 to volk. Same story for the 3rd except its Islam's. So 3 to 2 to Islam. It was good scoring. No robbery, no conspiracy, a close fight but the decision was correct.
Islam's jump in competition has been insane. This guy went from beating bobby green to beating arguably the best LW champion, to then beating the #1 p4p in their home country. Also the first time he's ever gone 5 rounds. That's Islam's last 3 fights. Bobby green to the #1 p4p.
Put some respect on his name
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02-12-2023, 12:01 PM
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#174
Originally Posted By ghostfacedup⏩
The knees in particular were pretty bigaside from the very end, Islam was landing the bigger strikes as well. Islam's striking was impressive as hell. Volk really wasn't doing much of anything except being pretty active and moving forward. Add in Islam's control on the ground and the decision is fine.
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02-12-2023, 12:12 PM
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#175
guys wrestling in MMA has never been "just wrestling" they always have been submitting people. Especially the khabib/islam type wrestlers, but even matt hughes types from way back have tons of submission wins. The point is the wrestlers are able to take BJJ prodigy guys down and not get submitted. They're able to control the fight.
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02-12-2023, 01:09 PM
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#176
- ninetynine8
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Originally Posted By bfdehewdbyywhn⏩
yep and that's the real reason khabib retired, he didn't even make weight his last fight and got the guy doing it to cheat for him.Islam will never do this
but he should go up a weight class
khabib avoided the same thing
but he should go up a weight class
khabib avoided the same thing
02-12-2023, 01:11 PM
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#177
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Originally Posted By Gringo12⏩
what are you talking about dudeNot sure why everyone's upset. Nobody lost stock in that fight. Volk better on the ground than expected and Islam better striking.
I had it 4 rounds to 1 for Islam. People being blinded by the dominant 5th round for volk and forgetting that Islam had control time and the better shots in the previous rounds. Don't like being held down for 4 minutes? Then don't get taken down or learn how to escape. It's mma.
Islam deserves all the praise. His level of competition went from bobby green to beating arguably the best LW champ to then beating the #1 p4p in his home country.
Volk is a legend and deserves all the praise for taking the challenge and doing so well. But he clearly didn't win
I had it 4 rounds to 1 for Islam. People being blinded by the dominant 5th round for volk and forgetting that Islam had control time and the better shots in the previous rounds. Don't like being held down for 4 minutes? Then don't get taken down or learn how to escape. It's mma.
Islam deserves all the praise. His level of competition went from bobby green to beating arguably the best LW champ to then beating the #1 p4p in his home country.
Volk is a legend and deserves all the praise for taking the challenge and doing so well. But he clearly didn't win
islam didn't have 'control' of anything, how is control being on your back getting punched in the face? control implies you can do something out of your position which he never could
02-12-2023, 04:00 PM
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#178
- OneLegSquats
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Volk won. He dealt more damage while Islam had control. Control time is worth less than damage, he was just hugging him from behind while Volk was knocking on his head.
02-12-2023, 04:23 PM
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#179
- iwant2beswole
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Originally Posted By OneLegSquats⏩
“Hugging him from behind” is the most dominant position to submit someone with. Those punches Alex was throwing behind his head is landing no power. Alex is lucky he has no neck because he couldn’t break free from the body triangle, majority of fw/lw is getting rnc in that positionVolk won. He dealt more damage while Islam had control. Control time is worth less than damage, he was just hugging him from behind while Volk was knocking on his head.
watchout your comments boyo ↓
02-12-2023, 04:33 PM
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#180
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Originally Posted By iwant2beswole⏩
He dealt no damage though and did half assed choke attempts. Volk did the most damage which under UFC rules wins the round“Hugging him from behind” is the most dominant position to submit someone with. Those punches Alex was throwing behind his head is landing no power. Alex is lucky he has no neck because he couldn’t break free from the body triangle, majority of fw/lw is getting rnc in that position
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