Forum
»
Unconditional cash transfers reduce homelessness
08-31-2023, 04:24 PM
-
#151
- PimpinisEasy
- Registered User
-
- PimpinisEasy
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jun 2012
- Age: 40
- Posts: 11,587
- Rep Power: 3465
-
-
good to be a drug dealer.
08-31-2023, 04:25 PM
-
#152
08-31-2023, 05:08 PM
-
#153
- isingmodel
- Registered User
-
- isingmodel
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2019
- Age: 56
- Posts: 11,925
- Rep Power: 57442
-
-
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Your entire failed worthless 40 something meter maid life is funded by taxpayer (other people's) money.How much more ney have you given to the homeless? Oh wait, you're a socialist, you'd rather use someone else's money.....

Misc Crypto Crew
BTC to $200k
08-31-2023, 06:05 PM
-
#154
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
Okay, so once again, how much have you given to the homeless?Your entire failed worthless 40 something meter maid life is funded by taxpayer (other people's) money.


08-31-2023, 06:10 PM
-
#155
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Instead of getting in to the difference of socialism, fascism, communism etc, let’s just make this easy; What isn’t capitalism? How many regulations needs to be present until it’s no longer capitalism? Is the welfare state capitalist? Are labor unions capitalist? What about the trade commission? Tariffs? Licensing? Minimum wage laws? Taxes on profits? Death Tax? Taxes on inheritance? State highways, or roads owned by the state, in which we don’t have a right to use? Eminent domain? Federal government having full control over currency with unlimited spending of that currency?So the US just isn't capitalist enough?
Are we more or less capitalist than we were 100 years ago?
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Go back to the absolute argument fallacy that I mentioned.Is there an example of a nation that is or was capitalist enough to not have any homeless people?
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Says who, the Karl Marx?Capitalism kind of assumes the proletariat are an unlimited resource.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Turn this around for a moment to understand the logic; Can government do it better? That’s the question. As we move away from capitalism, has homelessness gotten better or worse? When we assess economic progress, the socialist will say “It’s getting better. We succeeded in our policies”. Then you go back and assess before the policy, and you discover something interesting; society was accelerating at a faster pace BEFORE the policies were put in place. In other words, government has largely slowed us down, but we have completely stopped.I get the survival of the fittest angle, it's just not a view I hold.
More recently though, our progress with equality and poverty has slowed significantly. Why? Capitalism, or government interference?
So what are we?
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 06:23 PM
-
#156
- freeheeler
- Registered User
-
- freeheeler
- Registered User
- Join Date: Jun 2002
- Location: United States
- Age: 65
- Posts: 11,675
- Rep Power: 83841
-
-
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Use San Francisco as an example, or Sacramento, or Los Angeles A lot of government employees have gotten very rich out of allegedly helping the homelessTurn this around for a moment to understand the logic; Can government do it better? That’s the question. As we move away from capitalism, has homelessness gotten better or worse? When we assess economic progress, the socialist will say “It’s getting better. We succeeded in our policies”. Then you go back and assess before the policy, and you discover something interesting; society was accelerating at a faster pace BEFORE the policies were put in place. In other words, government has largely slowed us down, but we have completely stopped.
More recently though, our progress with equality and poverty has slowed significantly. Why? Capitalism, or government interference?
So what are we?
More recently though, our progress with equality and poverty has slowed significantly. Why? Capitalism, or government interference?
So what are we?
Scubastevo :-What percentage of women have STDs? (serious) If I just wanted to go bareback with any girl that I could get with, what are my chances of ending up bed ridden with STDs?
08-31-2023, 06:29 PM
-
#157
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By freeheeler⏩
Well, it's not working because they're not doing what Finland does.......Use San Francisco as an example, or Sacramento, or Los Angeles A lot of government employees have gotten very rich out of allegedly helping the homeless
08-31-2023, 06:40 PM
-
#158
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I can't make your argument for you.Instead of getting in to the difference of socialism, fascism, communism etc, let’s just make this easy; What isn’t capitalism?
You said the solution to homelessness is capitalism.
The US has many homeless persons.
How can the US "solve" their observed homelessness population with capitalism? How would deregulation address unemployment and homelessness?
I think class/wage division is the issue. But, I'm interested in hearing how truer capitalism would resolve that concern.
08-31-2023, 07:05 PM
-
#159
08-31-2023, 07:05 PM
-
#160
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Read the books I recommended. Everything is explained in those, with strong evidence, including examples and data. They use logic and reason, along with explaining the processes, which is where most other economists and extremists fall flat.I can't make your argument for you.
You said the solution to homelessness is capitalism.
The US has many homeless persons.
How can the US "solve" their observed homelessness population with capitalism? How would deregulation address unemployment and homelessness?
I think class/wage division is the issue. But, I'm interested in hearing how truer capitalism would resolve that concern.
You said the solution to homelessness is capitalism.
The US has many homeless persons.
How can the US "solve" their observed homelessness population with capitalism? How would deregulation address unemployment and homelessness?
I think class/wage division is the issue. But, I'm interested in hearing how truer capitalism would resolve that concern.
Example; how would deregulation help unemployment? Well, every time the min wage goes up, unemployment does too. So how would we make unemployment go back down? Hmmm…
Regulations get added to the cost of production, and ultimately, works against both the consumer and the labor. You can’t force producers to stop making a profit, otherwise, they will refuse to produce anything. That would leave us without products and services. So, that’s not the answer. The consumer will stop buying the product, so if the price goes too high, there is no profit. So instead, the producer is forced to lay off/cut pay of the labor.
Lift regulations, lift minimum wage, and You will see the cost of living going down, unemployment go down, and because the cost of living is lower, people can get buy on lower wages. THe Fed causes inflation on purpose. What does that do to your cost of living? Why do people feel they constantly need raises? Trade offs…
This is why you have to stop looking at the economy as a thing that can be easily manipulated, and instead, look at it for what it is; people. Companies are people. Consumers are people…and they all make decisions. You will never change that. The economy is bound by the laws of Nature, which so many self proclaimed economists and politicians refuse to acknowledge.
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 07:28 PM
-
#161
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
I dunno, mane.Read the books I recommended. Everything is explained in those, with strong evidence, including examples and data. They use logic and reason, along with explaining the processes, which is where most other economists and extremists fall flat.
Example; how would deregulation help unemployment? Well, every time the min wage goes up, unemployment does too. So how would we make unemployment go back down? Hmmm…
Regulations get added to the cost of production, and ultimately, works against both the consumer and the labor. You can’t force producers to stop making a profit, otherwise, they will refuse to produce anything. That would leave us without products and services. So, that’s not the answer. The consumer will stop buying the product, so if the price goes too high, there is no profit. So instead, the producer is forced to lay off/cut pay of the labor.
Lift regulations, lift minimum wage, and You will see the cost of living going down, unemployment go down, and because the cost of living is lower, people can get buy on lower wages. THe Fed causes inflation on purpose. What does that do to your cost of living? Why do people feel they constantly need raises? Trade offs…
This is why you have to stop looking at the economy as a thing that can be easily manipulated, and instead, look at it for what it is; people. Companies are people. Consumers are people…and they all make decisions. You will never change that. The economy is bound by the laws of Nature, which so many self proclaimed economists and politicians refuse to acknowledge.
Example; how would deregulation help unemployment? Well, every time the min wage goes up, unemployment does too. So how would we make unemployment go back down? Hmmm…
Regulations get added to the cost of production, and ultimately, works against both the consumer and the labor. You can’t force producers to stop making a profit, otherwise, they will refuse to produce anything. That would leave us without products and services. So, that’s not the answer. The consumer will stop buying the product, so if the price goes too high, there is no profit. So instead, the producer is forced to lay off/cut pay of the labor.
Lift regulations, lift minimum wage, and You will see the cost of living going down, unemployment go down, and because the cost of living is lower, people can get buy on lower wages. THe Fed causes inflation on purpose. What does that do to your cost of living? Why do people feel they constantly need raises? Trade offs…
This is why you have to stop looking at the economy as a thing that can be easily manipulated, and instead, look at it for what it is; people. Companies are people. Consumers are people…and they all make decisions. You will never change that. The economy is bound by the laws of Nature, which so many self proclaimed economists and politicians refuse to acknowledge.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your support seems to be based on an assumption that I haven't read the sources shared because anyone who reads them will share your view. Is that accurate?
You stated the solution to homelessness is (laissez-faire) capitalism.
08-31-2023, 07:50 PM
-
#162
Well, if anything, TLC further proves yet again that he's an unreasonable troll.
He's constantly dishonest and lies. Pretends to be reasonable, but every question is nothing more than bait to troll more.
This is narcissism at its best. TLC is a true Marxist.
"Marx and Ingles never tried to refute their opponents with argument. They insulted, ridiculed, devoted, slandered, traduce them, and in the use of these methods, their followers are not less expert.” Mises
He's constantly dishonest and lies. Pretends to be reasonable, but every question is nothing more than bait to troll more.
This is narcissism at its best. TLC is a true Marxist.
"Marx and Ingles never tried to refute their opponents with argument. They insulted, ridiculed, devoted, slandered, traduce them, and in the use of these methods, their followers are not less expert.” Mises
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 07:53 PM
-
#163
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Hopefully the irony is intentionalWell, if anything, TLC further proves yet again that he's an unreasonable troll.
He's constantly dishonest and lies. Pretends to be reasonable, but every question is nothing more than bait to troll more.
This is narcissism at its best. TLC is a true Marxist.
"Marx and Ingles never tried to refute their opponents with argument. They insulted, ridiculed, devoted, slandered, traduce them, and in the use of these methods, their followers are not less expert.” Mises
He's constantly dishonest and lies. Pretends to be reasonable, but every question is nothing more than bait to troll more.
This is narcissism at its best. TLC is a true Marxist.
"Marx and Ingles never tried to refute their opponents with argument. They insulted, ridiculed, devoted, slandered, traduce them, and in the use of these methods, their followers are not less expert.” Mises

If not

08-31-2023, 08:06 PM
-
#164
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By ezmac31⏩
More government, more socialism is the answer.....So you have no legitimate retort, got it
08-31-2023, 08:34 PM
-
#165
Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
That's it. Liberty is never the answer. Government is always the answer. Ignore all evidence and facts don't fit their beliefs. These individuals are the least scientific and logical people in society. Socialism isn't an economic theory. Its an ideology based on propaganda and a delusional person named Karl MarxMore government, more socialism is the answer.....
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
08-31-2023, 08:53 PM
-
#166
- Jasonw1178
- 5'3" 300lbs Fudge Rounds
-
- Jasonw1178
- 5'3" 300lbs Fudge Rounds
- Join Date: Dec 2012
- Posts: 44,104
- Rep Power: 271274
-
-
If it were only that simple to take a homeless person, and put them in a home and give them 10-20K and get them on their feet and then from that point they become productive functional members of society, it would be money well spent. Even if it only worked half the time. I would support it. However, that doesn't work. Chances are only a handful of people will be put back on their feet productive members of society, but most of those people would have gotten on their feet anyways. Chances are it will just make more people give up and say fuk it do nothing and you'll be taken care of. If fact, most of that money will just end up fueling negative aspects of our society.
09-01-2023, 05:52 AM
-
#167
Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
Participants in the cash groups received 7500 CAD. "This amount equaled the annual income assistance in British Columbia in 2016 and represented 59.6% of the average personal annual income ($12,580) of our participants."If it were only that simple to take a homeless person, and put them in a home and give them 10-20K and get them on their feet and then from that point they become productive functional members of society, it would be money well spent. Even if it only worked half the time. I would support it. However, that doesn't work. Chances are only a handful of people will be put back on their feet productive members of society, but most of those people would have gotten on their feet anyways. Chances are it will just make more people give up and say fuk it do nothing and you'll be taken care of. If fact, most of that money will just end up fueling negative aspects of our society.
09-01-2023, 05:54 AM
-
#168
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Why haven't you given any of your money to a cause you believe in?Participants in the cash groups received 7500 CAD. "This amount equaled the annual income assistance in British Columbia in 2016 and represented 59.6% of the average personal annual income ($12,580) of our participants."
09-01-2023, 06:18 AM
-
#169
- IPoopStandingUp
- Registered User
-
- IPoopStandingUp
- Registered User
- Join Date: Apr 2013
- Location: New Hampshire, United States
- Posts: 19,456
- Rep Power: 235404
-
-
Ban homelessness. Make it a capital offense for repeat offenders.
09-01-2023, 06:36 AM
-
#170
09-01-2023, 06:42 AM
-
#171
- jtaylor2010
- Join Date: Mar 2010
- Location: United States
- Posts: 33,185
- Rep Power: 441422
-
-
Honestly, it may work for a very small percentage of homeless people…though I’d say a stipulation of getting the money should be a requirement of attending a finance management class. But this study should in no way be taken as an indication that this is an effective approach for making a substantial dent in the homelessness problem in most major cities in America.
Our preregistered screening criteria were: age 19 to 65, homeless for less than 2 y (homelessness defined as the lack of stable housing), Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and nonsevere levels of substance use (DAST-10) (21), alcohol use (AUDIT) (22), and mental health symptoms Colorado Symptom Index (CSI) (23) based on predefined thresholds (see SI Appendix, Table S1 in SI Appendix, section 1.3.2).
Our preregistered screening criteria were: age 19 to 65, homeless for less than 2 y (homelessness defined as the lack of stable housing), Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and nonsevere levels of substance use (DAST-10) (21), alcohol use (AUDIT) (22), and mental health symptoms Colorado Symptom Index (CSI) (23) based on predefined thresholds (see SI Appendix, Table S1 in SI Appendix, section 1.3.2).
09-01-2023, 06:49 AM
-
#172
Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Yep.Honestly, it may work for a very small percentage of homeless people…though I’d say a stipulation of getting the money should be a requirement of attending a finance management class. But this study should in no way be taken as an indication that this is an effective approach for making a substantial dent in the homelessness problem in most major cities in America.
Our preregistered screening criteria were: age 19 to 65, homeless for less than 2 y (homelessness defined as the lack of stable housing), Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and nonsevere levels of substance use (DAST-10) (21), alcohol use (AUDIT) (22), and mental health symptoms Colorado Symptom Index (CSI) (23) based on predefined thresholds (see SI Appendix, Table S1 in SI Appendix, section 1.3.2).
Our preregistered screening criteria were: age 19 to 65, homeless for less than 2 y (homelessness defined as the lack of stable housing), Canadian citizen or permanent resident, and nonsevere levels of substance use (DAST-10) (21), alcohol use (AUDIT) (22), and mental health symptoms Colorado Symptom Index (CSI) (23) based on predefined thresholds (see SI Appendix, Table S1 in SI Appendix, section 1.3.2).
It was a pre-registered controlled trial in a Canadian city.
There were 4 conditions:
"In condition 1, 25 participants (nshelters = 5) were provided with a one-time cash transfer of $7,500, workshop, and coaching. In condition 2, 25 participants (nshelters = 5) were provided with the cash transfer and workshop but no coaching. In condition 3, 19 participants (nshelters = 5) were provided with workshop and coaching, but no cash transfer. In condition 4, 46 participants (nshelters = 6) were not provided with the cash transfer, workshop, or coaching. "
09-01-2023, 06:49 AM
-
#173
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Okay, but with such amazing results, why haven't you given them any money?The study was grant funded.
09-01-2023, 06:51 AM
-
#174
09-01-2023, 11:21 AM
-
#175
JLC always brings the trollness.
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
09-01-2023, 11:31 AM
-
#176
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By saltypits⏩
Why would he leave that part out?JLC always brings the trollness.
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
09-01-2023, 11:32 AM
-
#177
Originally Posted By saltypits⏩
There was so much wrong with this study that I didn't want to point everything out. JLC either didn't read the study before he posted it, or likely just read the abstract and nodded in agreement without question because it went along with his evil beliefs.JLC always brings the trollness.
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
09-01-2023, 11:40 AM
-
#178
Originally Posted By saltypits⏩
The money was given after enrolment.JLC always brings the trollness.
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
So it turns out there were 229 initial participants. 114 of them took the money and disappeared. lol.
https://nationalpost.com/news/colby-...transfer-study
09-01-2023, 11:42 AM
-
#179
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
-
- Dave22reborn
- Cold Hearted SOB
- Join Date: Jan 2005
- Location: Ill.
- Posts: 120,479
- Rep Power: 316531
-
-
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Stop embarrassing yourself, unless you get off on it.The money was given after enrolment.
09-01-2023, 11:43 AM
-
#180
- isingmodel
- Registered User
-
- isingmodel
- Registered User
- Join Date: Mar 2019
- Age: 56
- Posts: 11,925
- Rep Power: 57442
-
-
Originally Posted By Kraken⏩
Who in this thread has mentioned the word socialism other than you?The least amount of homelessness and inequality has come from capitalism.
The argument from the socialist is always "well it isn't zero". But the capitalist argues "it is the least of any other system". What we do know, is that absolute arguments have no place in societal issues. You will never have zero crime. You will never have zero poverty, you will never have zero homelessness.
This means that the only thing that we know that works so far, is capitalism. And then we have to dive into what is it about capitalism that works. This is where things become difficult, because if there are fundamental values that have not been imprinted in you, fundamentally, they become very difficult to understand, which leads to disbelief.
By far the easiest author to understand would be Thomas Sowell. He gets straight to the point, and makes you understand that things are not as clear as what you want them to be. Economics is all about trade-offs. If you implement a policy, it comes at a cost, and not just monetary costs. We are talking about creating wealth caps, more poverty, more homelessness as a cost. You have to weigh those costs against the benefit, and many times the cost is not worth it. Read his book Economics Facts and Fallacies as a warm up.
Most main stream economists do not advocate for capitalism because of self interest. For instance, you almost never find a classic liberal economist working in Government, because they understand the harm that government can do, you and if you don't advocate for government fixing all of our economic problems, then there is no job security. Because of this, the MSEs want everyone to believe that government is necessary for everything.
Socialists, Keynesians, monetarists etc., make up a vast majority of main stream economics. Every one of these prescribe government intervention to fix economic problems.
Meanwhile, classic liberals and the Austrian economists understand the trade offs and the cost, so they tend to want to find alternatives to government intervention.
I've barely scratched the surface and have already typed quite a bit. I recommend you read Thomas Sowell, Hayek, and Ludwig von Mises. And when you are finished reading those, you will see government solutions in a whole new light. They will make you think completely different.
In conclusion, we do know what works; capitalism and independent charitable acts, but every social experiment we have done had a great cost that many times does more harm than good.
The argument from the socialist is always "well it isn't zero". But the capitalist argues "it is the least of any other system". What we do know, is that absolute arguments have no place in societal issues. You will never have zero crime. You will never have zero poverty, you will never have zero homelessness.
This means that the only thing that we know that works so far, is capitalism. And then we have to dive into what is it about capitalism that works. This is where things become difficult, because if there are fundamental values that have not been imprinted in you, fundamentally, they become very difficult to understand, which leads to disbelief.
By far the easiest author to understand would be Thomas Sowell. He gets straight to the point, and makes you understand that things are not as clear as what you want them to be. Economics is all about trade-offs. If you implement a policy, it comes at a cost, and not just monetary costs. We are talking about creating wealth caps, more poverty, more homelessness as a cost. You have to weigh those costs against the benefit, and many times the cost is not worth it. Read his book Economics Facts and Fallacies as a warm up.
Most main stream economists do not advocate for capitalism because of self interest. For instance, you almost never find a classic liberal economist working in Government, because they understand the harm that government can do, you and if you don't advocate for government fixing all of our economic problems, then there is no job security. Because of this, the MSEs want everyone to believe that government is necessary for everything.
Socialists, Keynesians, monetarists etc., make up a vast majority of main stream economics. Every one of these prescribe government intervention to fix economic problems.
Meanwhile, classic liberals and the Austrian economists understand the trade offs and the cost, so they tend to want to find alternatives to government intervention.
I've barely scratched the surface and have already typed quite a bit. I recommend you read Thomas Sowell, Hayek, and Ludwig von Mises. And when you are finished reading those, you will see government solutions in a whole new light. They will make you think completely different.
In conclusion, we do know what works; capitalism and independent charitable acts, but every social experiment we have done had a great cost that many times does more harm than good.
You reek of an low IQ frat bro who has just read Atlas Shrugged for the first time and thinks he has stumbled upon something profound. You are arguing against a position nobody has made, which is a sure fire sign of actual retardation.
Misc Crypto Crew
BTC to $200k
Bookmarks
-
- Digg
-
- del.icio.us
-

- StumbleUpon
-
-
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts