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» **OFFICIAL** Trading and Investing Thread: Part XVI -- BAG HOLDING EDITION
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post 1674673813 01-12-2023, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Carbonfibre
USD is getting steam rolled

BTC Pumping

Meme names pumping

Yields diving

SP 500 over 200 DMA




Suspect stuff atm but don't ever short slow moving market it can grind higher till they decide to take profit.

Momentum is with buyers.

Trying to get in front of it will hurt.

Better to join ride (feels late atm) or wait till it starts to go other way.
Sounds like the Fed has a lot more room to hike tbh
post 1674674763 01-12-2023, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Destor
Sounds like the Fed has a lot more room to hike tbh
They've been pretty open about it. Market just refuses to believe it.

JPow seems particularly wary of making the same historical mistake of stepping on the brakes too early only to have inflation pump again. I have every expectation that they'll follow through with going higher and for longer . . . and that they'll almost certainly overdo it.
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post 1674674933 01-12-2023, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By Destor
Sounds like the Fed has a lot more room to hike tbh
I mean

BBBY and CVNA going into bankruptcy are up 400 percent in week.

This is like screaming just matter of when they crush this nonsense.



Clearly big money squeezing the living life out of everything.
post 1674676163 01-12-2023, 01:25 PM
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#1894
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Originally Posted By taf1968
They've been pretty open about it. Market just refuses to believe it.

JPow seems particularly wary of making the same historical mistake of stepping on the brakes too early only to have inflation pump again. I have every expectation that they'll follow through with going higher and for longer . . . and that they'll almost certainly overdo it.
If you don’t overdo it you under do it 100% of the time. Inflation cannot be slowly dropped. Unfortunately you have to crush it. Praying for my April puts lmao
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post 1674677923 01-12-2023, 01:49 PM
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BBBY lets goooooo


what a time to be alive


feels like 2021 all over again


woooooo




/joking


healthy market of piss
post 1674679843 01-12-2023, 02:20 PM
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#1896
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Originally Posted By Carbonfibre
BBBY lets goooooo


what a time to be alive


feels like 2021 all over again


woooooo




/joking


healthy market of piss
Sad I sold my BBBY CSP now.. although added IV I'd probably still be underwater lmao
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post 1674680213 01-12-2023, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By taf1968
They've been pretty open about it. Market just refuses to believe it.

JPow seems particularly wary of making the same historical mistake of stepping on the brakes too early only to have inflation pump again. I have every expectation that they'll follow through with going higher and for longer . . . and that they'll almost certainly overdo it.
Originally Posted By Carbonfibre
I mean

BBBY and CVNA going into bankruptcy are up 400 percent in week.

This is like screaming just matter of when they crush this nonsense.

Clearly big money squeezing the living life out of everything.
Between this type of stuff and crypto heading a bit upwards, I mean I know what that suggests to me: there is still way too much money floating around.

If they even feather that brake right now, I think we'd see an '80s-style inflation spike to new highs
post 1674682643 01-12-2023, 02:58 PM
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#1898
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Originally Posted By Destor
Between this type of stuff and crypto heading a bit upwards, I mean I know what that suggests to me: there is still way too much money floating around.

If they even feather that brake right now, I think we'd see an '80s-style inflation spike to new highs
Dead on.

I scan commodity futures once week and there is lot of things that look bottomed out to me / basing and starting to u turn back to up.

Especially now that China is open.


Sorry for huge data dump.

Sure like good old.

Bush mission accomplished victory lap by market (I believe its intentional)












post 1674682763 01-12-2023, 02:59 PM
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#1899
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Originally Posted By Destor
Between this type of stuff and crypto heading a bit upwards, I mean I know what that suggests to me: there is still way too much money floating around.

If they even feather that brake right now, I think we'd see an '80s-style inflation spike to new highs
True. You think oil will fade though? Looks like supply is very healthy right now and lots of investment has been made since 2020 to keep supply coming. I’m sick of the dog shyt that forced the TGA merger. EGYs non TGA assets are dry holes in the fking ground. I’m hoping oil companies keep jumping tomorrow and I’ll sell a 50/50 mix of $4 and $5 CCs tomorrow against all my shares and hope they get called at $5.
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post 1674686213 01-12-2023, 03:49 PM
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Yeah the move today was just selling premium.
post 1674704793 01-12-2023, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By RobParks2M
True. You think oil will fade though? Looks like supply is very healthy right now and lots of investment has been made since 2020 to keep supply coming. I’m sick of the dog shyt that forced the TGA merger. EGYs non TGA assets are dry holes in the fking ground. I’m hoping oil companies keep jumping tomorrow and I’ll sell a 50/50 mix of $4 and $5 CCs tomorrow against all my shares and hope they get called at $5.
I think there are a lot of reasons to believe oil will stay above $70 but honestly have turned my focus away from O&G for a bit now, I’m not making any moves with my current holdings and would rather diversify further and hopefully even find a hedge against oil to buy next

Tesla just cut prices massively in North America, 20% on the Model Y and too many other cuts to detail fully
post 1674723303 01-13-2023, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted By Destor
Tesla just cut prices massively in North America, 20% on the Model Y and too many other cuts to detail fully
That late Dec delivery push compared to this lmaooooooooo

Giant cut across the board.

Inventory mounting up and shocker how material costs just went away in one day.

The q4 results are gonna be something.....

Used Tesla which lets be honest one time use tin cans (like every EV) just got hammered after this.

Anyone that bought tesla last few months gonna be raging at this price cut.

post 1674725353 01-13-2023, 07:16 AM
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[QUOTE=Carbonfibre post_id=1674723303]That late Dec delivery push compared to this lmaooooooooo

Giant cut across the board.

Inventory mounting up and shocker how material costs just went away in one day.

The q4 results are gonna be something.....

Used Tesla which lets be honest one time use tin cans (like every EV) just got hammered after this.

Anyone that bought tesla last few months gonna be raging at this price cut.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/DStXonn.png[/QUOTE]There could be other implications to consider too, like people who financed at high prices being instantly underwater on their loan from an actual MSRP cut and what that could mean for the financing side of the industry.

Apparently if you plug an almost a brand a 2022-2023 Model Y into Tesla's trade-in estimator, the value offered is legitimately like half of the recent MSRP.

Legacy OEMs are much wiser keeping MSRP constant but adjusting through more "temporary" discounts to MSRP. But in the text of the Inflation Reduction Act legislation, discounts don't count towards fitting under the MSRP cap and it needs to be an actual MSRP adjustment.
post 1674725533 01-13-2023, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted By Destor
There could be other implications to consider too, like people who financed at high prices being instantly underwater on their loan from an actual MSRP cut and what that could mean for the financing side of the industry.

Apparently if you plug an almost a brand a 2022-2023 Model Y into Tesla's trade-in estimator, the value offered is legitimately like half of the recent MSRP.

Legacy OEMs are much wiser keeping MSRP constant but adjusting through more "temporary" discounts to MSRP
For sure.


There goes those we are more than car company "margins" that Tesla stans high fived for 2 years straight.


This price cut is gut punch to amazing 50% year over year projections that they keep throwing around and those huge margins lmaooooooo
post 1674737023 01-13-2023, 10:28 AM
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Let's be srs, those that can afford a Tesla don't have to worry about money very much.
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post 1674738563 01-13-2023, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted By _zman
Let's be srs, those that can afford a Tesla don't have to worry about money very much.
Model S and X at $100k+ yeah, the Model 3 and Y were supposed to be more affordable mass market vehicles and never should have been $60k+

People were out of their minds paying those prices IMO, and these might not be the last cuts depending on interest rate policy going forward
post 1674739573 01-13-2023, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted By Destor
Model S and X at $100k+ yeah, the Model 3 and Y were supposed to be more affordable mass market vehicles and never should have been $60k+

People were out of their minds paying those prices IMO, and these might not be the last cuts depending on interest rate policy going forward
Yet so many people are not financially savy and make impulse decisions, just like overpaying for a house that can be 10x as much as any Tesla. I know a young couple that was impulsive and paid 5 figures over asking at the highest interest rate possible. I personally waited since 2019-2020 range to pick up a vehicle. Flying out tomorrow.

Even the model 3 is out of the majority of people's ability to afford it.
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post 1674740503 01-13-2023, 11:39 AM
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#1908
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Not sure if I posted this itt yet or the car market thread but there are 48 teslas for sale by owner on Craigslist here in Portland. Average price $51,000 . I bet not a single seller has any inquiry’s
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post 1674747803 01-13-2023, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted By TugOfPeace
Any thoughts on where market moves next week? Just shorted AFRM for some small gains, hoping we dip
spy probably continuing to 402-405


VIX almost sub $18, almost oversold on the weekly.
post 1674762883 01-13-2023, 05:21 PM
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Difficult question to have answer.

At this point it is best to look at from both sides:

Buyer vs Seller.

Buyers after this week have lot of things going for them.

-SP 500 closed above the 200 daily moving average.

-cleared the key trend line resistance going back to market top

-Bank earnings were good (actually too phucking good)

I suggest going over this JPM earnings report in depth and guidance for this year /// look at those provisions they sure aren't preparing for worst scorched earth moment as of yet.
https://www.jpmorganchase.com/ir

-Rarely is this chart thrown here but 200 weekly moving average is really powerful indicator.

Its extremely rare that it gets violated without some major recession as you can see where it why it went under here.

Buyers make the case here that low of this current market up trend was last October 2022.





Seller Case

-market is fighting fed that never ends well

-market pricing in too many rate cuts already

-commodity turn around / which could bring back inflation again

-trend line resistance that worked all of 2022







Here is what I think atm again this is irrelevant just my opinion if you're investing at least once week scan market


-too late to chase long as of right now (you have to be crazy to go long here chasing tops / there should be pull back )

-you can go look up most single stock names and not hard to spot they bought the low around October

-this is the most talked about coming recession in our life time / every day articles are flowing.

you can see how this can be problem when everyone is throwing it at you more often than not it doesn't play out that way.


so now comes the question.

what catalyst is going to cause this market to crash?

I can only think of 3 black swan scenarios

1. Russia uses tactical Nuke (20 percent chance)

2. China attacks Taiwan (5 percent chance)

3. some new super variant of covid (I give this 0.1 chance)
post 1674771793 01-13-2023, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Carbonfibre
Difficult question to have answer.

At this point it is best to look at from both sides:

Buyer vs Seller.

Buyers after this week have lot of things going for them.

-SP 500 closed above the 200 daily moving average.

-cleared the key trend line resistance going back to market top

-Bank earnings were good (actually too phucking good)

I suggest going over this JPM earnings report in depth and guidance for this year /// look at those provisions they sure aren't preparing for worst scorched earth moment as of yet.
https://www.jpmorganchase.com/ir

-Rarely is this chart thrown here but 200 weekly moving average is really powerful indicator.

Its extremely rare that it gets violated without some major recession as you can see where it why it went under here.

Buyers make the case here that low of this current market up trend was last October 2022.

[im]https://i.imgur.com/n4hUY4n.png[mg]



Seller Case

-market is fighting fed that never ends well

-market pricing in too many rate cuts already

-commodity turn around / which could bring back inflation again

-trend line resistance that worked all of 2022

[ig]https://i.imgur.com/pcp8i1l.png[ig]





Here is what I think atm again this is irrelevant just my opinion if you're investing at least once week scan market


-too late to chase long as of right now (you have to be crazy to go long here chasing tops / there should be pull back )

-you can go look up most single stock names and not hard to spot they bought the low around October

-this is the most talked about coming recession in our life time / every day articles are flowing.

you can see how this can be problem when everyone is throwing it at you more often than not it doesn't play out that way.


so now comes the question.

what catalyst is going to cause this market to crash?

I can only think of 3 black swan scenarios

1. Russia uses tactical Nuke (20 percent chance)

2. China attacks Taiwan (5 percent chance)

3. some new super variant of covid (I give this 0.1 chance)
We are close to another test at the 50WMA heading into next week, which we have not broken through yet. If we can close above that than I think the trend can break. Also, note the drop in volume these last few weeks.

Are they parking cash on the sidelines in anticipation?

I pointed out earlier in this thread that last 2 times the 50WMA crossed under the 200WMA there were further 40-50% drops a la Dot Com and GFC. We need a few weeks at or above ~4000 to flatten out that 50WMA line to avoid that setup a 3rd time. With at least one further rate hike coming soon, I can see the attractiveness of locking in a risk-free 4ish % T-bill or solid bonds vs. the risk of dropping 50% and who knows how long to recover.

Are they parking cash on the sidelines in anticipation?

post 1674775293 01-13-2023, 09:16 PM
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#1912
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[QUOTE=drewsef post_id=1674771793]We are close to another test at the 50WMA heading into next week, which we have not broken through yet. If we can close above that than I think the trend can break. Also, note the drop in volume these last few weeks.

Are they parking cash on the sidelines in anticipation?

I pointed out earlier in this thread that last 2 times the 50WMA crossed under the 200WMA there were further 40-50% drops a la Dot Com and GFC. We need a few weeks at or above ~4000 to flatten out that 50WMA line to avoid that setup a 3rd time. With at least one further rate hike coming soon, I can see the attractiveness of locking in a risk-free 4ish % T-bill or solid bonds vs. the risk of dropping 50% and who knows how long to recover.

Are they parking cash on the sidelines in anticipation?

[img]https://tinypic.host/images/2023/01/14/SP500-weekly-2023a.pngmg][/QUOTE]Its possible to pin market and trade sideways till earnings that carry the the big weight. (last week of Jan and first week of Feb come out. apple/msft/amzn/goog/berk/xom )

Also FOMC is Feb 2nd and Apple reports next day.

Going back to the banks that reported day the big one JPM only calls for mild recession (they could be lying through their teeth)

However examining their balance sheet for Q4 their provisions increase (money set aside in case customers start to default) went up / however nothing that goes holy shiit what are they preparing for.

They have enough money on the side that they can cover / pretty easily.


Market needs catalyst / not sure what it could be.
post 1674779743 01-13-2023, 10:44 PM
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#1913
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Originally Posted By Carbonfibre
Its possible to pin market and trade sideways till earnings that carry the the big weight. (last week of Jan and first week of Feb come out. apple/msft/amzn/goog/berk/xom )

Also FOMC is Feb 2nd and Apple reports next day.

Going back to the banks that reported day the big one JPM only calls for mild recession (they could be lying through their teeth)

However examining their balance sheet for Q4 their provisions increase (money set aside in case customers start to default) went up / however nothing that goes holy shiit what are they preparing for.

They have enough money on the side that they can cover / pretty easily.


Market needs catalyst / not sure what it could be.
Banks are gonna have a positive and negative spin depending on which answer helps you give them your money.

That said, I am strongly considering going nuts deep in fnma and assume they are spun off from government control and are very valuable in the next 3-5 years. I’ve only got like 10,000 shares with a mix of preferred and common shares but I think government doesn’t want that headache anymore and they will be quite happy to let them go once they have sufficiently recapitalized themselves via retained earnings. That and the warrants the government gifted themselves could be valued at something stupid like $150B.

Sold a few thousand $$$ in CCs against the EGY shares today and if Sofi gets close to $7 again I’ll sell more CCs against those too. My $5CSP and $4CSP are looking healthy finally. Payo looking thick solid tight too.

If only fukking sbux would stop mooning to new yearly highs and join everything else down 20-50%
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post 1674803943 01-14-2023, 09:21 AM
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IDK, something wrong here. With the "good news" of inflation, we've seen retail stocks pump. Now bitcoin getting pumped bigly.

Yet the yield curve is still deeply inverted. All we hear about on the news are layoffs, yet the "job market is still strong."

Kind of feels like retail is being setup for a rug pull.
mo e
post 1674815543 01-14-2023, 12:18 PM
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#1915
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Originally Posted By mulletwarrior
IDK, something wrong here. With the "good news" of inflation, we've seen retail stocks pump. Now bitcoin getting pumped bigly.

Yet the yield curve is still deeply inverted. All we hear about on the news are layoffs, yet the "job market is still strong."

Kind of feels like retail is being setup for a rug pull.
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post 1674825883 01-14-2023, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By mulletwarrior
IDK, something wrong here. With the "good news" of inflation, we've seen retail stocks pump. Now bitcoin getting pumped bigly.

Yet the yield curve is still deeply inverted. All we hear about on the news are layoffs, yet the "job market is still strong."

Kind of feels like retail is being setup for a rug pull.
sure looks like it, commodities are also running high
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post 1674827923 01-14-2023, 03:19 PM
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#1917
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Originally Posted By mulletwarrior
IDK, something wrong here. With the "good news" of inflation, we've seen retail stocks pump. Now bitcoin getting pumped bigly.

Yet the yield curve is still deeply inverted. All we hear about on the news are layoffs, yet the "job market is still strong."

Kind of feels like retail is being setup for a rug pull.
There are some definite positives. Lower wage jobs are actually in demand and the folks on the lower end if pay scale are probably living better or about the same as 2020.

This new recession shouldn’t be nearly as dramatic as previous ones. This will probably suck for upper middle class and some upper class who might be over leveraged. Housing is incredibly stable. So many people have <3% mortgages it’s almost impossible for these people to go tits up when they can rent it for well above their mortgage payment. There is realistically only 2 years worth of buyers who are obscenely underwater everyone else will chill and get over it.

My target for shorting is companies that provide unnecessary services that aren’t cost effective and provide a minimal dividend less than the payout on bonds. Hasn’t worked out well for me yet, but I think the next quarter or 2 of earnings might validate my thesis of lacking growth and share appreciation in conjunction with paying out low proceeds.
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post 1675022683 01-16-2023, 01:41 PM
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#1918
  1. Venom08
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  1. Venom08
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I think we do get a rug pull followed by a slingshot move up in Q2. 2022 did a whole lot of nothing.
post 1675032283 01-16-2023, 03:06 PM
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#1919
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Originally Posted By Venom08
I think we do get a rug pull followed by a slingshot move up in Q2. 2022 did a whole lot of nothing.
Moves upward out of a bear market are usually swift, so you could be right. Just another reason why it's hard, and usually not worth, trying to time the market. You miss a few important big move days and you hurt your long term gains significantly.
trainingwithryan.substack.com
post 1675120413 01-17-2023, 07:33 AM
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#1920
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Short some Baba and going long msft today once it bases.

Chips strong
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