So everybody's biggest gripe with god is unjust suffering?

That and not existing. Other cultures have more chill Gods. Doesn't make a difference. The God of Abraham is just the most readily available for criticism.

Truth it’s pretty much the lack of existence that does it for me

How do you know he doesn't exist? I can't prove he exist either but seems you have a concerte answer.

I'll wait for him to let me know. Until then there's just a bunch of humans who are just as clueless as anyone else. Only ones who can know if there is an afterlife are dead. If God is real and all powerful and wants me to know he exists, I don't think he'd need help from human beings.

The point about not believing in something is that you don’t have to prove it doesn’t exist cos it doesn’t

I also don’t believe in flying jam sandwiches

I can't prove the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist either, but I take a position on its existence based on the available evidence (or lack thereof), with the provision of changing my mind if new evidence of its existence should ever show up. How about you, do you believe in the Tooth Fairy because you can't prove it doesn't exist?

people use to not believe in the atom eventually it was proven to exist.Not everything that exist in this world do you know of yet. It seems arrogant and closeminded to demand him to prove himself or you wont believe.

The Bible describes many types of healing and preventative and corrective measures. One of the disciples was an actual medical doctor and gave a prescription in a letter for pain relief for a stomach ailment. And these disciples had the spiritual power to heal. Not everything is either or. We are not ONLY spiritual beings or ONLY physical beings.

For example, another part discusses the use of quarantine.

Another how to remove black mold from households.

Many, many things. Like hand washing, which wasn't a thing in the scientific community until the 1900's.


Have you heard about how doctors used to think washing hands between patients was unscientific and only for "superstitious" midwives?

Sometimes when looking at something as large as the Bible, it has to be taken in context of its entirety, or else you might wind up with a distorted view.

It seems arrogant to me to call someone arrogant for believing in something that you yourself cannot prove. There wasn't disbelief in the atom, we just didn't know there was one. Then we found it and thought, "Oh chit those are tiny!". Now we know atoms exist. That goes for any discovery. What we don't do is claim something exists that we have no evidence at all for.

When have you ever heard about the existence of God from anything other than other human beings and books that say they are right because they say they are right?

Hell, we would gladly believe in a God if we actually had proof of one, but we don't. That's why God is compared to Santa, because the exact same logic applies.

I'm a humanist. People like you scare me.

I think there are probably aliens since the universe is so amazingly large. I have not a ounce of proof. Things in this life are so perfect. Did it just fall in place?

I'm saying you shouldnt talk in absolutes like there is no possibility. Have you seen a atom? I haven't. It was discovered for awhile and people didnt believe. He** people like op think the world is flat.

Maybe it's deeper than logic.

The man who invented the radio told everyone that sound could be passed through the air without anyone hearing it unless they had a specially tuned receptor.

They tried to have him committed.

Because what he was saying did not make logical sense.

But he was right.

James Clerk Maxwell was never known to be insane or crazy. He was always considered a poet and a scholar. What other fallacious comments can you make to support your non point?

I never said there couldn't be a God. Like you said, the universe is huge and there are likely aliens. The difference is aliens are based on what we know as life, and a god exists beyond what we know in the law of nature. We wouldn't even know where to look or what to look for. We know what life looks like, we do not know what a spirit is supposed to look like.

And even if there is a God, why does it have to be one that follows a book that was written by man, and reflects the times those people lived in? There have been many gods in our human existense, and Christianity happens to be the flavor of the month.

Most people believe in God, but only if it's the version they grew up with. Everyone claims to know the real God. Everyone claims their book, elders, culture is the one that got it right. Even Christians can't agree on how to best be Christian! Jews were God's chosen people in the bible, Jesus was a Jew, and we aren't even Jewish!

Everyone is SURE, no maybes, but SURE that they are worshiping the right way. From the Muslim in Iran, to the Hindu in India, to the Buddhists on the mountaintops, to the isolated tribes of the Amazon.

They all think God spoke to them (not Buddhists but I digress). Their ancestors, their family, their entire culture believes with all their heart they are right. It is what they know. Christianity is what our culture knows. Can everyone be right? Is it possible that no one is?

Why are all of our gods so similar to us? Chose our civilization to be the right one? Have us be the right ones?

Why is it always other humans assuring us? In a time of cameras and internet, why is there a lack of magic and miracles?

Maybe there is a god somewhere in the vast reaches of space, but if there is, I sincerely doubt we have any fukking clue what he/she/it would even be saying, but we're damn good at claiming to know.

Glad to see you're open minded. You are actually a Agnostic. Your right people can't truly wrap thier mind around something so huge but we do are best. Do I believe the bible word for word I'm not sure it was written and interpteded by man. How could they truly comprehend God?

Lots here.

I agree and disagree with everything you said in this post.

"Of course religion shifts with societal changes and time and at the behest of the powerful "

Cultural rules are a consideration. God knows the heart. There are many instances in the Bible where God makes allowances for people because of the culture they lived in.

So understanding the culture at the time can help you understand if something is applicable.

God himself does not change. So that is where many feel their religion is unchangeable.

Religion and faith in God are related but not the same. Jesus was the embodied faith in God, but bucked up hard against the religious teachings of his day.

"Your teachings are interpretations by man defined by social mores of the times .."

Yes, including our own interpretations, because we are men (as in human). And we view morality based on our perception of right and wrong by both our conscience and how we are raised.

There is a thing that superceeds that, and that is revelaton from and experience with God. So for morally ambiguous areas, God can illuminate the right choice.

"That’s how allegories and fairy stories work ...they are contextual"

Many people can only understand the Bible as allegory. For me, until I experienced an actual miracle from words, I had a hard time understanding the creation story from Genesis as anything but allegorical. However, as i grew in understanding, I realized God is even more powerful than I previously understood and was able to understand that there are deeper truths to be learned.

Right now we can only go by word of mouth. For some that is enough. For me, I think humanity is flawed and will claim anything. When I hear a disembodied voice tell me the way, I'll pay attention (and hopefully not have dementia.). Until then, why bother listen to another person in the same boat as I'm in tell me how right their version of the bible is?

Humans are flawed does that mean god is flawed to? Idk but if he was perfect why would he tell us to love him? If you have to be ask to be loved that means your not easy to love.

I've seen the same "fairy tale/fiction novel" insult a few dozen times on the misc

Sofukingedgy. That joke was old like 20 years ago.No offense but this is a very shallow interpretation, not to mention the wild correlation you started with.

No idea. Or bible says we have to love him. But several people wrote that book. Most of us base our knowledge on him from that one, man made book. If there's a God, he might want something else entirely. Maybe there are several. Maybe there are none.

I've been on both sides of the belief fence. Black dude in the south is almost a 100% guaranteed Christian. About 25 is when i realized i didn't believe in the bible and that humans made God and not the other way around. Not saying I'm right, it's just my reality and right for me. It all stemmed from doing that one thing you are forbidden to do, question God. Question the bible.

It was scary thought. It feet like blasphemy, sacrilege, but one day i was just thinking about hell and the thoughts just started pouring in. Suddenly, the bible made less and less sense. Seemed more brutal, unfair, hateful.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. Maybe the bible is right. I just think it's good to know how the other side thinks, and you should be able to look at both sides for the clearest picture, no matter which side you fall on.

Maybe he's hard to love. Maybe he isn't. Maybe he isn't there at all. Who reallyknows.

what do you think he means? I think he is flawed because he was blinded by his love of us and didn't see how flawed we as humans are.

He holds and active disbelief in gods/goddesses - AKA IS ATHEIST. How hard is this for you theists to wrap your head around.... Drives me up the wall.

There may vary well be a God/Goddess of some sort. It does not change the fact that I disbelieve it and will continue to disbelieve it until such evidence is presented that I re-evaluate my position.

I can pretty much guarantee you are almost atheist as well. There are probably thousands of deities that you do not believe in.

Dude, this is one of the main reasons, I think, a lot of people turn from religion. But the god of the Bible doesn’t just ask you to love him, he straight up threatens your existence with eternal damnation if you do not comply with the tenets of believing and loving him. “Not easy to love” is a drastic understatement, and makes the whole concept of Christianity (to me, at least) seem like a severe case of battered wife syndrome. This is my opinion, and I don’t mean to take a dump on the beliefs of others, I was once a believer too - it’s just that the more I thought about it all, the less it made sense to me.

you should fear God

Not sure what I'm missing. Atheist disbelieve in the existence of God/gods.Agnostic believe nothing is known.

if you go off basic tenants that Christianity seems to set: God imparts free will to humans, there's a standard of tolerable, admirable, and punishable acts humans can commit, and your fate is tied to your track record. Humans can do as they wish.

The notion of "if human is flawed is god flawed?" or "if he's perfect why does he tell us to love him?" both seem non-sequitur. I know we're talking about spirituality and I"m not particularly religious, but I'm not for committing fallacies against either side either.

Of course it's deeper than logic. Logically there is no reason to believe in the bible.

Your argument about Marconi is unpersuasive. It's an appeal to emotion and not a logical argument.

Look, I'm not saying that 100% there is no God. But logic dictates that I cannot believe in a God as described in the bible. For those of you who have faith and believe, that's great. But there is no argument that can logically persuade me to believe that the bible is anything other than allegory and fiction.

lol x2