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Forum » Lately i 've been thinking that human beings dont really have a choice about anything
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Thread: Lately i 've been thinking that human beings dont really have a choice about anything

post 1626875653 12-28-2020, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted By DrewDarden⏩
It matters because I think an existentialist is going to be a lot less bitter and miserable than a nihilist or “determinist.”

Ken-O would be an exception to this rule as he does not come across as bitter and miserable.
a person can be medicated to be less bitter and miserable

feelings just aren't relevant here

what matters is the truth

we don't get to choose the truth
post 1626875773 12-28-2020, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
a person can be medicated to be less bitter and miserable

feelings just aren't relevant here

what matters is the truth

we don't get to choose the truth
You don’t get to ask if it matters, and then come back and say it’s irrelevant LOL. You asked the question.

I already gave my position on the matter.

And LOL at thinking that taking pills for bitterness is an equal substitute for a positive mindset.
Misc Lifting Crew (Team Lead)
post 1626875833 12-28-2020, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted By DrewDarden⏩
You don’t get to ask if it matters, and then come back and say it’s irrelevant LOL. You asked the question.

I already gave my position on the matter.
It was rhetorical. It doesn't matter, and everyone who thinks it matters is a chode.

Philosophers are mostly chodes.

u chode
post 1626875893 12-28-2020, 10:42 PM
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OP, I think you are a good person.

You don’t have many of the flaws that come with the 95% mass produced line.

You are reaching the point of both self awareness and awareness of your surroundings. You may even notice that you are very different from your family members. While it’s mostly genetics at play, there is a different energy that can’t be quantified. No science can ever do this. If you possess this energy, it is unlikely you can turn this off and you will continue to be more aware of your calling.

Do not confuse the above with mental illness or autism. The real mental illness, through no fault of their own, is with the 95%.

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626876003 12-28-2020, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
It was rhetorical. It doesn't matter, and everyone who thinks it matters is a chode.

Philosophers are mostly chodes.

u chode
Read my two posts above.

Dude, you are funny but it ain’t from being smart. I highly encourage you to step away from the topic of the post. You seem very out of place here.

ROFL

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626876043 12-28-2020, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
Read my two posts above.

Dude, you are funny but it ain’t from being smart. I highly encourage you to step away from the topic of the post. You seem very out of place here.

ROFL

Cheers
^chode detected
post 1626876073 12-28-2020, 10:45 PM
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i think the price of freedom is just too steep in most societies. the society that would allow you to live with some free will would be something like, no rent/property fees, no insurance bull****. that would be a start. some countries are like that already, and i've been to some, and they are incredibly freeing. you can have no money and no job, but still live a very happy life. it's the definition of freedom. that you don't experience in modernized places. in canada at least, everyone is a slave. and are forced to work or go homeless.
There is only one Hell: the one we live in now.
post 1626876093 12-28-2020, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Everything is in fact quantifiable, and I challenge you to find me something that isn't.
alright since a big portion of another post wouldn't work. what about this?

how about "dreaming"?

how do you quantify what it was like to dream and or substantiate the dream world was different from the real world? you can admit you've dreamt, experienced something but meanwhile it really didn't happen. you woke up in your bed even though something completely different was going on in your head

how "real" would you rate the dream world compared to reality? you could say that it happened in the brain. that it was a result of electrical or synaptic connections functioning a certain way. but how would you explain what it wasLIKEto experience the dream world? you felt a physical presence but the physical presence did not actually exist. how could you differentiate the two in the moment?

how could you feel something that didn't actually happen? how could you "experience" something that didn't actually happen?
post 1626876233 12-28-2020, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
While it’s mostly genetics at play, there is a different energy that can’t be quantified. No science can ever do this. If you possess this energy, it is unlikely you can turn this off and you will continue to be more aware of your calling.

Do not confuse the above with mental illness or autism. The real mental illness, through no fault of their own, is with the 95%.
Ha I love this. There is a clear line between certain people for who actually tries to do well and who goes through the motions.

And they find a million ways to label anyone doing more than them.

Some kind of social governor or grounding does help keep things in order.
post 1626876243 12-28-2020, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
alright since a big portion of another post wouldn't work. what about this?

how about "dreaming"?

how do you quantify what it was like to dream and or substantiate the dream world was different from the real world? you can admit you've dreamt, experienced something but meanwhile it really didn't happen. you woke up in your bed even though something completely different was going on in your head

how "real" would you rate the dream world compared to reality? you could say that it happened in the brain. that it was a result of electrical or synaptic connections functioning a certain way. but how would you explain what it wasLIKEto experience the dream world? you felt a physical presence but the physical presence did not actually exist. how could you differentiate the two in the moment?
a dream is a physical phenomenon...u have quantifiable dream states in terms of your neurophysiology

people can even tell if ur fuking dreaming while you sleep

even if it didn't happen, the perception physically exists as a record in your brain...dreaming is a physical process just like everything else

the category of what it was like is also directly determined by the same neural associations in the brain

in the moment, you might not be able to tell if it is real, but the record of the perception still exists in reality...u can't find me an example of anything you know that doesn't exist meaningfully in reality either as an encoding in your brain or an actual realized thing.

Even abstract mathematical ideas exist as physical encodings in the brain. We can't escape the fact that we exist in this universe.
post 1626876463 12-28-2020, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted By mesobuild⏩
Ha I love this. There is a clear line between certain people for who actually tries to do well and who goes through the motions. Maybe more like a 0.5%.

And they find a million ways to label anyone doing more than them.

Some kind of social governor or grounding does help keep things in order.
True empathy should be reserved for those in the 5% who cannot counteract the energy properly via necessary actions in the man made construct called society. These people are out there.

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626876503 12-28-2020, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
It’s 95% are made from the same design platform.The remaining 5% are different. How different mirrors closely with the intelligence distribution at the top end. If you are smart enough, you can understand this.

Cheers
fkn lol dude u post the worst chit on the misc.
wtf is the "design platform"?
how did you measure the 95%?
????????

cheers.
post 1626876583 12-28-2020, 10:54 PM
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And I'm sure the murderer thought he had no choice but to kill that 12 year old boy too...

No sources to cite, this is just imo.
While it's definitely easier to go with the path you're given, I think we all have the power to make the choices to change it. The only things we truly can't control are when we were born, and when we are going to die.
post 1626876593 12-28-2020, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted By optimisticAir⏩
fkn lol dude u post the worst chit on the misc.
wtf is the "design platform"
how did you measure the 95%?
????????

cheers.
Imagine being a Tier 2 and not recognizing this?

How’s your life, bro?

All good I guess?

ROFL

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626876683 12-28-2020, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
Imagine being a Tier 2 and not recognizing this?

How’s your life, bro?

All good I guess?

ROFL

Cheers
Imagine being F tier subhuman aleeboy.
post 1626876693 12-28-2020, 10:56 PM
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we can't prove that a predetermined fate exists. therefore we can't determine that true free will doesn't exist

i don't think any ancient civilization has even come to that conclusion.
There is only one Hell: the one we live in now.
post 1626876733 12-28-2020, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted By 2RDEYE⏩
we can't prove that a predetermined fate exists. therefore we can't determine that true free will doesn't exist
We have models and data suggesting it.
post 1626876803 12-28-2020, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
Imagine being F tier subhuman aleeboy.
Imagine being a Tier 2 and not even knowing it?

Anyways, if you believe you are smart, try to dwell on it. I’m almost certain you can’t overcome your emotions and you also have zero accomplishments from being a 95%’er as opposed to the paralyzed 5%’ers.

In the meantime, the aleeboy gonna aleeboy.

ROFL

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626876873 12-28-2020, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted By DrewDarden⏩
It matters because I think an existentialist is going to be a lot less bitter and miserable than a nihilist or “determinist.”

Ken-O would be an exception to this rule as he does not come across as bitter and miserable.
Thats because determinism made my life experiences way too easy, so easy that i started questioning what the fuk was the point if i didnt really earn anything? Most people would use determinism to justify their empty existence and sadness/missery, but im on the other side of the coin.

Im going to be honest now, im better off than probably 99% of people all things considered. Health, intelligence, money, atractiveness, etc. All the things that determine the outcome of your life, i got them without putting any effort.

Only thing i ever worked hard for is my physique, which is incredibly superficial to begin with. Everything else seems like it was handed to me. I have more material possesions than most yet i have never applied myself at any kind of work ever to a 100%. Not even a 50% i think.

Its like things have always worked out for me one way or another without even earning them. At a certain point you become suspicious, you see people struggling on a daily basis (IRL AND the internet/misc) yet you can help but figure out things keep working out just fine for you.

Whats the point of all these things if i didnt earn them? Even with all those things, i have made some stupid decisions on my past that should have turned my life upside down, and even then, EVEN then i walked out without a single bruise. Seems like i keep winning all the universal coinflips i throw.


Most people in my shoes wouldnt have cared about any of this **** and would have instead used my advantages to create an even better life. But not me, i started questioning **** since at an early age.


I have been heartbroken, have lost a brother, have been humilliated too, have been ignored, have felt shame etc, yet i always find a way to use those experiences to get stronger. To be better. I struggle so much seeing things negatively, and i believe its thanks to the brain i was born with.


I know it sounds like im jerking myself off on this post, but more like anything i feel lost. Have gotten to a point in my life where im wondering whats the fukin point and im just trying to figure it out.


And i will figure it out like i always do, will find a purpose, or something in my life will happen that will drift me away from all these thoughts.
"The flowers bloom, then wither... The stars shine and one day become extinct. This earth, the sun, the galaxies and even the big universe, someday will be destroyed. Compared with that, the human life is only a blink, just a little time. In that short time - people are born, laugh, cry, fight, are injured, feel joy, sadness, hate someone, love someone. All in just a moment. And then, are embraced by the eternal sleep called death."
post 1626876883 12-28-2020, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
Imagine being a Tier 2 and not even knowing it?

Anyways, if you believe you are smart, try to dwell on it. I’m almost certain you can’t overcome you emotions.

In the meantime, the aleeboy gonna aleeboy.

ROFL

Cheers
"you emotions"?

you retard
post 1626877003 12-28-2020, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
"you emotions"?

you retard
How old are you? 13?

I would hope so. If you haven’t noticed this I am ripping you apart gently. I can do much much more because I can see YOU.

I shall not because you are just an emotional piece of meat with an internet connection.

ROFL

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626877053 12-28-2020, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted By aleeboy⏩
How old are you? 13?

I would hope so. If you haven’t noticed this I am ripping you apart gently. I can do much much more because I can see YOU.

I shall not because you are just an emotional piece of meat with an internet connection.

ROFL

Cheers
u watchin me nut boyo?
post 1626877183 12-28-2020, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
u watchin me nut boyo?
By reading two of your posts, it os obvious you are an emotional piece of meat with an internet connection at best. At worst, you have also paid for your degree.

ROFL

Cheers
"The manlet is a savage beast that knows no moral bound. After falling in disgrace to a manmore, a ravaged manlet would not hesitate to come from behind and land a sucker punch/ swing with a rock to the back of a manmore's head. They are ruthless and you need to spend some more time in the gutter to even begin trying to comprehend what goes on in their minds."

Hurt by the aleeboy and need to cope? Go here for hugs: https://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=178724011
post 1626877203 12-28-2020, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
a dream is a physical phenomenon...u have quantifiable dream states in terms of your neurophysiology

people can even tell if ur fuking dreaming while you sleep

even if it didn't happen, the perception physically exists as a record in your brain...dreaming is a physical process just like everything else

the category of what it was like is also directly determined by the same neural associations in the brain

in the moment, you might not be able to tell if it is real, but the record of the perception still exists in reality...u can't find me an example of anything you know that doesn't exist meaningfully in reality either as an encoding in your brain or an actual realized thing.

Even abstract mathematical ideas exist as physical encodings in the brain. We can't escape the fact that we exist in this universe.
oh my fuken fuk. i just got an access denied error. im pissed. i don't want to re-write chit. that was a good post too

dude how much have you studied the brain? think this is a bunch of gobbledy-gook

"the perception physically exists in your brain"? what "perception"? how do you define "perception"? are you trying to say memory - are you trying to involve memory? where in the brain does it "physically" exist? i feel like you're trying to say our perception is based off of memory - e.g. an "experience", but while you say that with confidence i don't think it means much.

i still don't think you are where you need to be for this discussion. you're still stuck in quantifying mode. i think you have the ability to for sure, but again i think you are not at the level we are talking

what about animals? i dont feel too confident talking about them because i haven't studied animal consciousness

for example,

we know animals can go in fire and experience it (this is where you are) but humans can go into the fire and explain what it was like to experience the pain from fire
post 1626877323 12-28-2020, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted By DrewDarden⏩
It matters because I think an existentialist is going to be a lot less bitter and miserable than a nihilist or “determinist.”
Not at all. It's the absolute most freeing thing in the world.

You follow your heart and give it 110% and you let what happens happen and as a result, you live fearlessly.

That's the determinist viewpoint.
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post 1626877453 12-28-2020, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
oh my fuken fuk. i just got an access denied error. im pissed. i don't want to re-write chit. that was a good post too

dude how much have you studied the brain? think this is a bunch of gobbledy-gook

"the perception physically exists in your brain"? what "perception"? how do you define "perception"? are you trying to say memory - are you trying to involve memory? where in the brain does it "physically" exist? i feel like you're trying to say our perception is based off of memory - e.g. an "experience", but while you say that with confidence i don't think it means much.

i still don't think you are where you need to be for this discussion. you're still stuck in quantifying mode. i think you have the ability to for sure, but again i think you are not at the level we are talking

what about animals? i dont feel too confident talking about them because i haven't studied animal consciousness

for example,

we know animals can go in fire and experience it (this is where you are) but humans can go into the fire and explain what it was like to experience the pain from fire
I literally mean the perception. All perceptions are encoded signals that travel through the brain. Memory is there too, but that's different. I'm talking about your entire perception of NOW. It is literally a collection of signals...it is some kind of encoding in your brain. If your brain were damaged, you could lose your sense of perception, self, etc.

You seem to not want to accept that there is a "hardware layer" to human thought itself.
post 1626879813 12-28-2020, 11:50 PM
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Grats OP, have come to a very old question.

For a more balanced view, read these 2 too:
Personal Agency: The Metaphysics of Mind and Action by EJ Lowe
Free Will: A Philosophical Reappraisal by Nicholas Rescher.

Remember that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, it is very possible that overly reductionist view of free will WRT neuroscience might mean that the book isn't quite closed yet. It might be that a view of free will necessitates something immaterial like a soul, but it might not.
post 1626881693 12-29-2020, 12:28 AM
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There are macro events that are highly deterministic and there are micro events with low determinism, but in some cases they may have huge effect on somebody's life due to randomness.
Example of macro deterministic events are the family your were born into, the city you lived, the school you went, the friends you made. And the same rules apply for everybody you know.
Example of micro determinism is human fertilization, out of millions of spermies you are the one that fertilized the egg. That seems pretty random to me. But once that happen your life is determinated by the genes you are dealt with and all the macro events following to happen.
Another example of micro event that may change your life, but it's random is winning a lottery. The choice to play lottery is a macro event that is determinated, because you may have addictive personality to beging with and you will always end up gambling in every time line started after your birth, but every single time you gamble there is micro event that is absolutely random. For example let's say there are infinite time lines after your birth, you may say that in some of them you will win the lottery and end up rich af, but in every other universe you will end almost exactly the same.
Didn't scientist prove that everything on a microscopic level is random? And how much of it is relevant to the things happening on a larger scale. For example what will happen to our planet is absolutely irrelevant on a galactic scale. But getting that right spermie to fertilize the egg is a random event that is absolutely essential for you and your parents life quality.
post 1626881873 12-29-2020, 12:32 AM
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#209
  1. wincel
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Originally Posted By twptwp⏩
There are macro events that are highly deterministic and there are micro events with low determinism, but in some cases they may have huge effect on somebody's life due to randomness.
Example of macro deterministic events are the family your were born into, the city you lived, the school you went, the friends you made. And the same rules apply for everybody you know.
Example of micro determinism is human fertilization, out of millions of spermies you are the one that fertilized the egg. That seems pretty random to me. But once that happen your life is determinated by the genes you are dealt with and all the macro events following to happen.
Another example of micro event that may change your life, but it's random is winning a lottery. The choice to play lottery is a macro event that is determinated, because you may have addictive personality to beging with and you will always end up gambling in every time line started after your birth, but every single time you gamble there is micro event that is absolutely random. For example let's say there are infinite time lines after your birth, you may say that in some of them you will win the lottery and end up rich af, but in every other universe you will end almost exactly the same.
Didn't scientist prove that everything on a microscopic level is random? And how much of it is relevant to the things happening on a larger scale. For example what will happen to our planet is absolutely irrelevant on a galactic scale. But getting that right spermie to fertilize the egg is a random event that is absolutely essential for you and your parents life quality.
The sperm fertilization was also mostly deterministic. To get randomness you have to go to stuff at the quantum scale.
post 1626882363 12-29-2020, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted By makingthegains⏩
Grats OP, have come to a very old question.

For a more balanced view, read these 2 too:
Personal Agency: The Metaphysics of Mind and Action by EJ Lowe
Free Will: A Philosophical Reappraisal by Nicholas Rescher.

Remember that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, it is very possible that overly reductionist view of free will WRT neuroscience might mean that the book isn't quite closed yet. It might be that a view of free will necessitates something immaterial like a soul, but it might not.
i like the premise. yes

the article i posted a few pages back was from a neuroscientist that insinuated it could be centuries

the hard problem of consciousness has not been solved.

it's possible to construct something that looks like it, but it is not the same thing
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