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Forum » Natural immunity found to be as effective as COVID vaccine
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Thread: Natural immunity found to be as effective as COVID vaccine

post 1678086653 02-28-2023, 01:17 PM
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Lastly...

studies have shown, like this one :

"Cardiovascular involvement in autoimmune diseases"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459468/


that your heart is particularly vulnerable to autoimmune diseases, leading to things like myocarditis


Interedasting
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post 1678086783 02-28-2023, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Not that I know of. Should we be doing that for influenza and other vaccines as well?
As you pointed out earlier, other traditional vaccines "wane", as the body regulates autoimmune response back down to normal levels.


So it seems only the mRNA jabs, which keep your body in an elevated response.... are unique to this
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post 1678086873 02-28-2023, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
Lastly...

studies have shown, like this one :

"Cardiovascular involvement in autoimmune diseases"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459468/


that your heart is particularly vulnerable to autoimmune diseases, leading to things like myocarditis


Interedasting
Can you expand on why you think vaccines lead to autoimmune disease? If that's your argument.

We have seen that covid infection increases that risk, which is one among many risks of infection that I feel people should balance against the risks of vaccination.

Is there increased risk novel autoimmune disease following vaccination?
post 1678086943 02-28-2023, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
As you pointed out earlier, other traditional vaccines "wane", as the body regulates autoimmune response back down to normal levels.


So it seems only the mRNA jabs, which keep your body in an elevated response.... are unique to this
Well no, one of the criticisms of the mRNA vaccines was antibody waning (neutralizing antibody titres decreasing over time). Antibody levels wane following both vaccination and infection.
post 1678086953 02-28-2023, 01:21 PM
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post 1678087853 02-28-2023, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Is there something between those posts with which you take issue?

Vaccines weren't, and still aren't globally available."Multiple COVID-19 vaccines, representing diverse vaccine platforms, successfully protect against symptomatic COVID-19 cases and deaths"- for those who both have access to and accept them. Global travel is a daily occurrence.

Relying on a single mitigation measure to which much of the world did/does not have access seems like a poor strategyto me. Do you disagree?
LMFAO!!! You still don't (intentionally) get it do you lol.

The vaccine was going to be THE mythical end-all be-all God that was going to save us all from the terrifying Rona monster. Remember.. And there has been one advertising campaign after another after another urging people to get said vaccine. And in fact our very own government has given billions of dollars to other countries specifically FOR covid assistance.

https://2017-2021.state.gov/foreign-...-19/index.html

But now here you are saying "much of the world" doesn't have access to the sacred Fauci Fluid - and because of that...
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic.
Which still begs the same question that you keep ignoring... If we can't vaccinate our way out of this global black plague zombie apocalypse virus of DOOM, then WTF was the point of them? Why send billions in aid around the world if the vaccines won't help?
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1678087933 02-28-2023, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
LMFAO!!! You still don't (intentionally) get it do you lol.

The vaccine was going to be THE mythical end-all be-all God that was going to save us all from the terrifying Rona monster. Remember.. And there has been one advertising campaign after another after another urging people to get said vaccine. And in fact our very own government has given billions of dollars to other countries specifically FOR covid assistance.

https://2017-2021.state.gov/foreign-...-19/index.html

But now here you are saying "much of the world" doesn't have access to the sacred Fauci Fluid - and because of that...



Which still begs the same question that you keep ignoring... If we can't vaccinate our way out of this global black plague zombie apocalypse virus of DOOM, then WTF was the point of them? Why send billions in aid around the world if the vaccines won't help?
My point was that relying on vaccines as a single mitigation was a poor strategy. Is that not clear in what I posted?
post 1678088103 02-28-2023, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
My point was that relying on vaccines as a single mitigation was a poor strategy. Is that not clear in what I posted?
So what other options were there?

And why the gigantic push for vaccines and not these other options?
It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife: the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sunup. Sleep tight mates, in your quilted chambray night shirts.
post 1678088303 02-28-2023, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
As you pointed out earlier, other traditional vaccines "wane", as the body regulates autoimmune response back down to normal levels.


So it seems only the mRNA jabs, which keep your body in an elevated response.... are unique to this
Autoimmune conditions following mRNA (BNT162b2) and inactivated (CoronaVac) COVID-19 vaccination: A descriptive cohort study among 1.1 million vaccinated people in Hong Kong


"This study included around 3.9 million Hong Kong residents, of which 1,122,793 received at least one dose of vaccine (BNT162b2: 579,998; CoronaVac: 542,795), and 721,588 completed two doses (BNT162b2: 388,881; CoronaVac: 332,707). Within 28 days following vaccination, cumulative incidences for all autoimmune conditions were below 9 per 100,000 persons, for both vaccines and both doses. None of the age-standardized incidence rates were significantly higher than the non-vaccinated individuals, except for an observed increased incidence of hypersomnia following the first dose of BNT162b2 (standardized IRR: 1.47; 95% CI: 1.10–1.94)."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9008125/
post 1678092523 02-28-2023, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Autoimmune conditions following mRNA (BNT162b2) and inactivated (CoronaVac) COVID-19 vaccination: A descriptive cohort study among 1.1 million vaccinated people in Hong Kong


"This study included around 3.9 million Hong Kong residents, of which 1,122,793 received at least one dose of vaccine (BNT162b2: 579,998; CoronaVac: 542,795), and 721,588 completed two doses (BNT162b2: 388,881; CoronaVac: 332,707). Within 28 days following vaccination, cumulative incidences for all autoimmune conditions were below 9 per 100,000 persons, for both vaccines and both doses. None of the age-standardized incidence rates were significantly higher than the non-vaccinated individuals, except for an observed increased incidence of hypersomnia following the first dose of BNT162b2 (standardized IRR: 1.47; 95% CI: 1.10–1.94)."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9008125/
28 days?

I specifically used verbiage as "many months and years" and "up to 24 months of elevated immune response" etc.



I never assumed an autoimmune condition could develop within 28 days. I specifically cited long periods of time, because of the constant boosters.


you clearly have an agenda here
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post 1678093323 02-28-2023, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted By CalmWind⏩
28 days?

I specifically used verbiage as "many months and years" and "up to 24 months of elevated immune response" etc.



I never assumed an autoimmune condition could develop within 28 days. I specifically cited long periods of time, because of the constant boosters.


you clearly have an agenda here
That's what I found with a quick search. Can you share where you're seeing increased incidence of autoimmune disorders and/or prolonged immune responses from mRNA vaccines?
post 1678094543 02-28-2023, 03:24 PM
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Novavax is also approved as a booster
post 1678095843 02-28-2023, 04:48 PM
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Interesting to see how J.L.C. claims to not have backpedaled, yet...

We have not seen the source for this claim:
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Yep. Many,myself included, said that right from the start.
Reference for that claim, please.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2

https://c2cjournal.ca/2021/11/no-we-...-the-pandemic/

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/10/...-end-pandemic/

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/wh...-with-covid-19

https://www.voanews.com/a/who-chief-...-/6255192.html
Which paper is your name on?
So yes, confirmed case of

post 1678095893 02-28-2023, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
That's what I found with a quick search. Can you share where you're seeing increased incidence of autoimmune disorders and/or prolonged immune responses from mRNA vaccines?
Interesting to see how anytime anyone else posts something, you demand the source.

Yet you refuse to provide the source of the majority of your claims/statements.
post 1678096033 02-28-2023, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
So what other options were there?

And why the gigantic push for vaccines and not these other options?
Even better, why the giant push for experimental mRNA vaccines and not any other types of vaccine?

My money is on J.L.C. completely ignoring this one.
post 1678097813 02-28-2023, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Even better, why the giant push for experimental mRNA vaccines and not any other types of vaccine?

My money is on J.L.C. completely ignoring this one.
I don't know how I can be expected to have an answer for that. But it does seem the mRNA covid vaccines work better than the traditional covid vaccines.
post 1678101033 02-28-2023, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I don't know how I can be expected to have an answer for that. But it does seem the mRNA covid vaccines work better than the traditional covid vaccines.
And for the first time ever, you decided to be less intellectually dishonest than you are usually. Finally posted the correct statement - although you still haven't posted the complete statement, and you're still only factually correct because you included "seem" in there.

However, you still ignored the post, and deflected with that statement.

So yup, I called it correctly, yet again.

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?
post 1678101293 02-28-2023, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
And for the first time ever, you decided to be less intellectually dishonest than you are usually. Finally posted the correct statement - although you still haven't posted the complete statement, and you're still only factually correct because you included "seem" in there.

However, you still ignored the post, and deflected with that statement.

So yup, I called it correctly, yet again.

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?
"Seem" because we have data as evidence and analysis of those data to draw inference. No model is correct, but some are useful.

I dunno how replying directly can be considered ignoring.
post 1678101433 02-28-2023, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
"Seem" because we have data as evidence and analysis of those data to draw inference. No model is correct, but some are useful.

I dunno how replying directly can be considered ignoring.
Except you didn't reply "directly". You made an irrelevant statement. You do know the difference between the two, right?

And here's the rest of the post you ignored:

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?

post 1678101513 02-28-2023, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Even better, why the giant push for experimental mRNA vaccines and not any other types of vaccine?

My money is on J.L.C. completely ignoring this one.
Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I don't know how I can be expected to have an answer for that. But it does seem the mRNA covid vaccines work better than the traditional covid vaccines.
post 1678102593 02-28-2023, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
So instead of ignoring the post, you ignored the contents. What's the difference at the end of the day?

And here's the rest of the post you ignored:

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?
post 1678103163 02-28-2023, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
So instead of ignoring the post, you ignored the contents. What's the difference at the end of the day?

And here's the rest of the post you ignored:

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?
I didn't ignore the contents. I asked how I could possibly be expected to have an answer to the question.

Similarly, how can I provide a source, other than myself, for my own opinions, inferences, and statements?

I am the source of my own opinions, statements (verbal and written), inference, and positions.

post 1678103373 02-28-2023, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I didn't ignore the contents. I asked how I could possibly be expected to have an answer to the question.

Similarly, how can I provide a source, other than myself, for my own opinions, inferences, and statements?

I am the source of my own opinions, statements (verbal and written), inference, and positions.

Perfect. Thanks for confirming you have no opinion for the question of "why the giant push for experimental mRNA vaccines and not any other types of vaccine?".

And also, since you keep ignoring this part, I have to repeat it yet again...

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?
post 1678103753 02-28-2023, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Perfect. Thanks for confirming you have no opinion for the question of "why the giant push for experimental mRNA vaccines and not any other types of vaccine?".

And also, since you keep ignoring this part, I have to repeat it yet again...

Any update on the source of how you explicitly stated "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?

Or are you going to keep ignoring that as well?
Correct, I don't have an opinion. The US provided funding, it seems China invested similarly. Which was ready for pseudo-global scaling first?

I don't have historical transcripts of my conversations with friends and colleagues.
post 1678103953 02-28-2023, 06:05 PM
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Looking now, novavax's patent was filed in March of 2021. Were they ready for scaling?
post 1678103983 02-28-2023, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Correct, I don't have an opinion. The US provided funding, it seems China invested similarly. Which was ready for pseudo-global scaling first?
You know the answer to that - let's see if you're intellectually honest enough to provide the answer yourself.
I don't have historical transcripts of my conversations with friends and colleagues.
Interesting - so you are saying you haven't posted anything along those lines on the misc?

Edit : Remember, "along those lines" is referring to explicitly stating "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?
post 1678104183 02-28-2023, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Looking now, novavax's patent was filed in March of 2021. Were they ready for scaling?
Interesting to see how you needed to google that.

Just LOL @ pseudointellectuals srs.
post 1678104313 02-28-2023, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Interesting to see how you needed to google that.

Just LOL @ pseudointellectuals srs.
Do real intellectuals commit many or most patent filing dates to memory? Across industries?
post 1678104453 02-28-2023, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
Do real intellectuals commit many or most patent filing dates to memory? Across industries?
By asking that question, you confirmed that you aren't a real intellectual. If you were, you wouldn't be asking such a question.

Thanks for that!

Now go back and answer the post you ignored.
post 1678104833 02-28-2023, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Anachron⏩
Interesting - so you are saying you haven't posted anything along those lines on the misc?

Edit : Remember, "along those lines" is referring to explicitly stating "right at the beginning" that "It was poor strategy to think we'd vaccinate our way out of a pandemic."?
I have considered vaccination to be a personal health decision since the beginning of vaccine availability. My post history reflects that position. As does the timing of my own, personal, decision.

Herd immunity wasn't going to happen, which was one of my main criticisms of the GBD.

If you suspect otherwise, please offer some evidence that I have encouraged, suggested, or "pushed" vaccination for anyone, at any time.
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