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Forum » Universal Basic Income Explained Clearly
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Thread: Universal Basic Income Explained Clearly

post 1537018891 12-09-2017, 02:21 PM
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#31
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
Wasn't clever the first time, you thought this ad hominem was so brilliant you had to repeat it?

If you want to be respected direct your criticism at my position, make a logical rebuttal...
lol, your very first sentence in this thread showed every participant that you either do not understand the word "literally" or "communism".

Then you went around (ironically after you just tried to give me a lesson on ad hominem) and started throwing around "commie bastards".

Your perspective is filled with exaggerated, fact-less based, name calling, misc e-stating bull****.

When I want to have an intelligent conversation with someone, I will make sure they are qualified for the position.
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post 1537018921 12-09-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
We are at an inflection point since the economy is now global. If we don't want to compete with China and India in a race to the bottom, we have to figure out a new approach. It's not political, it's simple economics. Again, YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE RULING CLASS. The dumb chit you are spouting is the exact same things that the 1% will say about you. Ironic.
Why are you spouting talking points that don't mean anything. Global economy has nothing to do with UBI. If America today never traded again with another country, we would be able self-sustain without a hitch. How does giving individuals free handouts combat a "global economy".

Sounds like you finished watching a Bernie Sanders lecture. AHHH THE 1% AHHH THE 1% THEYRE THE REASON I HAVE A SMALL DIK AND CAN'T HAVE A 2 STORY HOUSE IN MANHATTAN. No, you not working as hard as them mixed in with some luck and timing is the reason why you're not the 1%. Quick redpill for you, you don't have to be the 1% to live a good life. There's a lot in between the 1% and welfare, but I don't expect you to realize that after years of liberal / communist indoctrination from the current school system.

Wake me up when a country running on socialism isn't eating dogs in the streets to survive while that 1% you blame for everything is even stronger and more corrupt and controlling than a capitalistic republic.
post 1537019021 12-09-2017, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
lol, your very first sentence in this thread showed every participant that you either do not understand the word "literally" or "communism".
Let me guess, we simply haven't tried "real Communism" yet, and only ~100m more people need to die before we get it right.
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post 1537019041 12-09-2017, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
The ruling class ARE THE ONES PUSHING FOR UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME!! People like Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros, Angela Merkel are the ones going on and on about UBI. Think about the big picture. These elite politicians and billionaires want nothing more than to consolidate their power even more and have a population completely dependant on their poverty 12k a year that they completely control.

And it is literally communism with a different name. They know communism has a 100+ year history of death, destruction, and failure; so they just gave it a new fancy name and now the same parasites support it...
So what's the alternative? How do you replace 100 million jobs that will be evaporating in the years to come? Do you think if people "just work hard" those jobs will appear? How are you going to survive when your job is eliminated and you can't find another?

Again, go to any chit tier country with a huge wealth gap and you will find LOTS of people working brutally hard for a little rice and some drinking water. That's the path we're on.
post 1537019241 12-09-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By InstantLoser⏩
Let me guess, we simply haven't tried "real Communism" yet, and only ~100m more people need to die before we get it right.
I know I have not specifically said my perspective about communism yet. So to prevent your bull**** assertions (again, very weak, intellectually dishonest way of discussing), let me be clear.

Communism will not work. I do not advocate it what so ever. People have the right to their own political perspective, but this method is too flawed.

What we are discussing in this thread, is not communism. You guys are just throwing that word on it to downplay the perspective without actually arguing it.
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post 1537019471 12-09-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
I know I have not specifically said my perspective about communism yet. So to prevent your bull**** assertions (again, very weak, intellectually dishonest way of discussing), let me be clear.

Communism will not work. I do not advocate it what so ever. People have the right to their own political perspective, but this method is too flawed.

What we are discussing in this thread, is not communism. You guys are just throwing that word on it to downplay the perspective without actually arguing it.
What is it, if not Communism.
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post 1537019591 12-09-2017, 02:30 PM
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ubi will never work
Originally Posted By FA*******⏩
I think we'll ultimately need a universal basic income, but the potential for abuse with it ****ing scares me.

"Implant this RFID chip so we can track you 24/7."

"No."

"We're taking your basic income."
more than likely they will offer you a higher ubi if you take the new iChip in your hand or your forehead and the goats will line up outside the store to get it...
post 1537019621 12-09-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
So what's the alternative? How do you replace 100 million jobs that will be evaporating in the years to come? Do you think if people "just work hard" those jobs will appear? How are you going to survive when your job is eliminated and you can't find another?

Again, go to any chit tier country with a huge wealth gap and you will find LOTS of people working brutally hard for a little rice and some drinking water. That's the path we're on.
Adapt. Innovation and content creation can not be automated by machines at this point. 150 years ago 95% of people were farmers, today 2% of people work in agriculture because it has been automated with machines. People adapted. 90 years ago the majority of Americans worked in factories doing manufacturing. That is no longer true either. Some people will not be able to adapt, they need to be left to fail.
post 1537019691 12-09-2017, 02:32 PM
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It is, like so many other social programs that exist today, in every modern developed country, regardless of regime type, a social program.
“The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.“

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post 1537019731 12-09-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
So what's the alternative? How do you replace 100 million jobs that will be evaporating in the years to come? Do you think if people "just work hard" those jobs will appear? How are you going to survive when your job is eliminated and you can't find another?

Again, go to any chit tier country with a huge wealth gap and you will find LOTS of people working brutally hard for a little rice and some drinking water. That's the path we're on.
This is a typical argument strategy when you try to force someone into making a stupid decision or side with you (UBI) by making it so the only other option is for that person to come up with a solution on the spot.

No one in this thread has the answer to the concept of disappearing jobs. The United States is at the forefront of development as a civilization and is no where near this point of 100 million people needing new jobs. The US labor force is only approximately 150 million. 60% of jobs isn't going to vanish overnight.

Rushing to commit to an awful short-sided idea isn't how you fix a problem. Lucky for us we live in a capitalistic country where the free market has a tendency to correct things on its own and innovate when a problem arises unlike its socialist counterpart.

Also couple in mother nature to help shake things up a bit (massive earthquake, plague, world wars etc) and we'll eventually find an answer.
post 1537019791 12-09-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Ironmanlet⏩
lol, your very first sentence in this thread showed every participant that you either do not understand the word "literally" or "communism".

Then you went around (ironically after you just tried to give me a lesson on ad hominem) and started throwing around "commie bastards".

Your perspective is filled with exaggerated, fact-less based, name calling, misc e-stating bull****.

When I want to have an intelligent conversation with someone, I will make sure they are qualified for the position.
You responded to my posts, not the other way around. If you are going to respond to someone's post have something of value to contribute. But you have nothing of value to contribute, which is why you want universal basic income.
post 1537019941 12-09-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By thugonomics⏩
This is a typical argument strategy when you try to force someone into making a stupid decision or side with you (UBI) by making it so the only other option is for that person to come up with a solution on the spot.

No one in this thread has the answer to the concept of disappearing jobs. The United States is at the forefront of development as a civilization and is no where near this point of 100 million people needing new jobs. The US labor force is only approximately 150 million. 60% of jobs isn't going to vanish overnight.

Rushing to commit to an awful short-sided idea isn't how you fix a problem. Lucky for us we live in a capitalistic country where the free market has a tendency to correct things on its own and innovate when a problem arises unlike its socialist counterpart.

Also couple in mother nature to help shake things up a bit (massive earthquake, plague, world wars etc) and we'll eventually find an answer.
So your answer is do nothing? Just wait it out as the wealth gap continues to grow every year and the middle class slides back to working poor? Again, you are working poor. This is you. You are arguing against your own interest.
post 1537019961 12-09-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
You responded to my posts, not the other way around. If you are going to respond to someone's post have something of value to contribute. But you have nothing of value to contribute, which is why you want universal basic income.
this is literally you

>"statement that has no value"
>"statement that has ad hominem"
>YOU DON'T HAVE VALUE
>YOU USED AD HOMINEM

I know six year olds that are better than you at intelligent conversations.
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post 1537020261 12-09-2017, 02:39 PM
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[QUOTE=ErnieMccracken post_id=1537017041]No mention of the alternative? What do you scholars think will happen once automation takes every lower and middle class (aka 100% of miscers) job? Go visit Brazil or any other craphole country with a huge wealth gap.


There will be a tiny class of ultra wealthy (not you) and everyone else will live like this:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ncJOxGQ.png[/img[/QUOTE]This.

The idea of a basic income is a very 1st world country idea. The reason why we can just fuk around while pretending we're working 40 hours a week is partially due to technology, but still very dependent on us raping 3rd world countries by means of taking their resources and working their asses to the bone for pennies on the dollar. There is nothing free in life, someone is paying the price somewhere for your 2 day delivery from amazon.

Things are going to change very quickly though. Kids in villages in india and africa will have running water, solar power and cellphone coverage pretty soon. With automation happening in the 1st world and information technology educating the 3rd world, chit is gonno hit the fan in not too long. The outcome of the power struggles that are sure to ensue cannot be predicted with any socioeconomic model we have seen so far in my opinion.

I ain't too worried though cause it's not happening for another 40-50 years and I don't want any kids. May even be fun to be retired, eating some popcorn and watching the world burn.
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post 1537020311 12-09-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
Again, go to any chit tier country with a huge wealth gap and you will find LOTS of people working brutally hard for a little rice and some drinking water. That's the path we're on.
Also those countries where there is a huge wealth gap and are poorer with people working hard for rice, and bread lines half a mile long... those are socialist countries that already implemented a "universal basic income" stupid ideas like you're talking about. The freer the market, the more prosperous the country, it is a direct 1 to 1 correlation.


Countries in the blue have freer markets. Countries in the yellow/red are more regulated and centrally planned. The very dark ones (Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba) Already have a UBI.
post 1537020371 12-09-2017, 02:40 PM
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Why are so many people acting like welfare doesn't already exist? UBI is essentially the same thing, except it would actually help rather than hinder people.

I'd only entertain UBI if every other welfare program was scrapped.
post 1537020551 12-09-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
That's the kinda entitled attitude I would expect from a supporter of this idea. Your income is directly based off the value you bring. If you work 72 hours in a week and only make $1000 then increase the value you give to others. I work ~5 hours a week and make 10k+ a month. Nobody forces you to work 40-72 hours a week in a free country. You chose that, work smarter not harder.
Entitled attitude? Sure thing, bucko. You're the one gladly sucking the corporate d!ck and celebrating an exploitative financial system designed to keep the majority in borderline poverty so rich aceholes can sit on their hordes of cash like dragons. Fuk having empathy for people who are struggling! They're just not gaming the system right. Let's celebrate decades of wage stagnation!
Originally Posted By Gainzzz⏩
Why are so many people acting like welfare doesn't already exist? UBI is essentially the same thing, except it would actually help rather than hinder people.

I'd only entertain UBI if every other welfare program was scrapped.
Agree with this.
post 1537020611 12-09-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
So your answer is do nothing? Just wait it out as the wealth gap continues to grow every year and the middle class slides back to working poor? Again, you are working poor. This is you. You are arguing against your own interest.
Waiting for the right answer to come != to doing nothing. Only fools makes bad decisions for the sake of making a decision. You act like tomorrow will be the end of humanity and a decision must be made now. Not surprised though, the left tends to treat everything as an existential crisis that must be addressed this second because they say its important.
post 1537020631 12-09-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By Gainzzz⏩
Why are so many people acting like welfare doesn't already exist? UBI is essentially the same thing, except it would actually help rather than hinder people.

I'd only entertain UBI if every other welfare program was scrapped.
Nobody is acting like that. Welfare has been a net negative. It has hurt our society as a whole. Why would we want even more of a bad thing?

That's like your doctor saying "you already have intestinal parasites so how about we add some heart worms too, I mean you already have parasites anyways"

Do you even see your logical inconsistencies? You admit that welfare hinders people, and you say UBI is "essentially the same thing" as welfare....yet it's supposed to magically not hinder people? U wot m8?
post 1537020861 12-09-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
Entitled attitude? Sure thing, bucko. You're the one gladly sucking the corporate d!ck and celebrating an exploitative financial system designed to keep the majority in borderline poverty so rich aceholes can sit on their hordes of cash like dragons. Fuk having empathy for people who are struggling! They're just not gaming the system right. Let's celebrate decades of wage stagnation!



Agree with this.
You sound like a female, your argument is entirely emotional. "how about some empathy and compassion". No how about doing what works and what is best for society as whole based on history, logic, and reason.
post 1537021051 12-09-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
You sound like a female, your argument is entirely emotional. "how about some empathy and compassion". No how about doing what works and what is best for society as whole based on history, logic, and reason.
I bust my ass and make decent money, doesn't mean I agree with a system that threw everyone overboard before I was even born because I'm doing all right. I like working hard, I think it's a necessary component of being healthy physically and mentally. But decrying decades of wage stagnation isn't emotional, it's just logic. I'll put a bit of emotion into my neg for you though.

post 1537021131 12-09-2017, 02:51 PM
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ITT Elysium is good
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post 1537021181 12-09-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
I bust my ass and make decent money, doesn't mean I agree with a system that threw everyone overboard before I was even born because I'm doing all right. I like working hard, I think it's a necessary component of being healthy physically and mentally. But decrying decades of wage stagnation isn't emotional, it's just logic.
The system that fuked you was the welfare state and left wing policies. Before the welfare state the average man could afford a house, car, wife, and kids working one job that he enjoyed working 40 hours a week. I agree with you the current system is fuked, but it's not because of too much economic freedom, its the opposite.
post 1537021261 12-09-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
The system that fuked you was the welfare state and left wing policies. Before the welfare state one man could afford a house, car, wife, and kids working one job that he enjoyed working 40 hours a week.
And welfare wouldn't be necessary if wages didn't stagnate for decades. I don't look at this as left vs. right. At this point the left is annoying me for the sole reason they're focusing on petty non-issues like weaponized ID politics rather than acknowledge the financial fist-fukking we're all expected to endure so our overlords can collect government checks well past their time in office and horde wealth.
post 1537021461 12-09-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By A-GAME⏩
ITT Elysium is good
Where miscers think they will live in the future:



Where miscers will actually live:
post 1537021521 12-09-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
Nobody is acting like that. Welfare has been a net negative. It has hurt our society as a whole. Why would we want even more of a bad thing?

That's like your doctor saying "you already have intestinal parasites so how about we add some heart worms too, I mean you already have parasites anyways"

Do you even see your logical inconsistencies? You admit that welfare hinders people, and you say UBI is "essentially the same thing" as welfare....yet it's supposed to magically not hinder people? U wot m8?
The current welfare system hinders people is what Iobviouslymeant.

You talk about logic a lot but you're the one acting like an SJW defending ridiculous points ITT.

We get it, you're an emotionless capitalist who believes in survival of the fittest, good for you, I hope that makes you feel alpha af. This is just not a realistic option. We need to figure out the best way to help people or at least not trap them in poverty which the current system has done for decades.

Absolutely no welfare would obviously weed out the weak and incompetent over time but as I said,this is not a realistic solution and never will be.

I would support a UBI that covers the bare minimum of what a person needs to survive. Nobody wants to give people enough money to live a life of leisure on someone else's dime.
post 1537021581 12-09-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted By CrimsonSteel⏩
I bust my ass and make decent money, doesn't mean I agree with a system that threw everyone overboard before I was even born because I'm doing all right. I like working hard, I think it's a necessary component of being healthy physically and mentally. But decrying decades of wage stagnation isn't emotional, it's just logic. I'll put a bit of emotion into my neg for you though.

What if I told you the same people responsible for decades of wage stagnation would be the same ones drawing up the implementation of UBI?
post 1537021701 12-09-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
What if I told you the same people responsible for decades of wage stagnation would be the same ones drawing up the implementation of UBI?
I never said UBI is the answer. I said wage stagnation is the problem.
post 1537021821 12-09-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By Gainzzz⏩
Why are so many people acting like welfare doesn't already exist? UBI is essentially the same thing, except it would actually help rather than hinder people.

I'd only entertain UBI if every other welfare program was scrapped.
That is the method I could support, get rid of welfare, social security, employment insurance and all other government run social programs and roll it all into UBI. One program to replace several others which should result far fewer costs to run the program.
post 1537021941 12-09-2017, 03:02 PM
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  1. stardewvalley
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  3. Join Date: Oct 2016
  4. Age: 42
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Originally Posted By thorpowers⏩
This is literally communism.

Communism doesn't work, it has never worked, it will never work.

Give a monkey free bananas and it will get fat, lazy, depressed, and dependant unable to take care of itself.

Fuk you commie bastards.
But it literally is not.


UBI operates under the assumption that welfare dependency is predominant AND long lasting.
If you look at public data, this is just not the case.
Most recipients of public aid are able to abandon aid in a few short years and welfare dependency fluctuates between 3-5% of the population.

I am no economist, I watched the video and it seems quite watered down.
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