bought house near the bottom here in summer of 2013
paid off at end of 2018

feels good man

don't care if market crashes. i simply prepaid all of my housing costs for the rest of my life at a cheap rate (~1/2 of home rental costs) since i'll never sell.

the peak of the market here at least was around november. just lol @ anyone who bought at that point

I was just looking at a big apartment like building for $369k. Not sure of the location, but $369k is damn cheap. And the interior doesn't even look bad.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-17961?view=qv

Here's one for 575k which is a big stretch, the monthly calculator is saying $2900/month. But with that location I'm pretty sure you can charge $1500/month per apartment.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-46988?view=qv

Duplexes are even cheaper.

It will depreciate faster, it also has a lower ceiling. I don't know the specifics of the NorthEast, but in California new home construction almost doesn't exist, it's simply not cost effective for builders to build homes. On the other hand, condos, apartment complex's, multi-unit housing, is exploding, it's the ONLY thing being built, but the demand is there for it due to these people being priced out from ownership. But they WANT to own, it takes them years to save for a down payment in this market, but some % eventually manage to do it. Also a large % of the renters are now preferring to RENT single family homes, as opposed to living in these crowded apartment complex's, lots of garbage, noise, lack of parking etc. 3 Bedroom homes are a bargain for renters, they rent for ~$3,500/mo + utilities (So basically $4k) so divide that by 3 ~$1350/person which is MUCH cheaper than renting an apartment.

In short - condos and apartments will be very over built in the case of a correction - single family is a tight market, with huge demand, so in the case of a "correction" (Which nobody in RE thinks is coming) there will still be pent up demand for Single Family.

I know this is location specific - but same is true in LA, Seattle, Oregon, SF, and every other big metro area.

this is a good post and makes sense for someone making a long term investment. Im talking about those *******s that bought a house in a lucky real estate market have 30k in fake equity and all of a sudden come on here and think they are financial geniuses. Saw these same morons lose it all in 2008.

Agreed that housing has been propped up by low interest rates. Here it's the Bank of Canada to blame.

Agreed it's a terrible investment in 2019. Illiquid in the best of times.

It's amusing when "owners" or "landlords" gloat they own anything. Actually...the bank owns it. Even when the thing is paid off, try skipping out on property taxes, maintenance, and utilities to find out how much you actually "own".

It's equally amusing when "owners" or "landlords" think house prices never go down.

Lmao on spread

But for real thanks op

It’s cucks like you that make my business model viable

Pretty sure daddy government has something to say about this LMFAOO

Well might as well say that you don’t own your labour as well since that’s taxed

Don’t buy any consumer goods either since that’s taxed

Might as well LDAR

Wait a second...

wtf is a mortgagecel lmao

Those are all taxed once, not perpetually, hurr durr.

Renters pay maintenance costs as well as property tax. They just aren't intelligent enough to know its factored into their rent.


Three ways to avoid property tax.
-Live with parents for free.
-Join military and live in barracks.
-Live on a boat.

nice place.... hell you can't even get half that home here in SoCal these days for that price. if you didn't buy a home in the early 2000s your fukd in Cali

Das it mane, just run the numbers and be conservative aka prep for worst case and then add another 5-10% for uncertainty.Very interesting, definitely something to keep in the back of my mind. Potentially this applies to the greater boston area as well, but I am buying on Cape Cod where there is virtually zero inventory for multis. They are such a rarity here that its the complete opposite I believe, they hold value much better then single families, even in relative disrepair. Also in this market alot of the inventory is second homes that rarely get used, there are plenty of 3 season rentals but nothing is available for the summer. So any form of affordable year round rental housing goes at a premium.This is a good long term perspective. I think after the first 2-3 properties (multi's) when I have around 10 units or so, it may be easier to flip over to buying single families, as they will cost less. Long term I can see your point, they may be the next big thing if the rental wave ever slows down.

Update nobody asked for: turns out the sewer line runs under the edge of the driveway and directly under my front steps instead of under the yard like we'd thought, and is also ancient clay pipe that was probably put down when MacArthur accepted the surrender of Japan. I really have no choice but to fix this because I had to make an insurance claim for ten grand of damage and that's going to do in the disclosures, so I really need to show I did something to fix it for good when I go to sell the house.

Of course, the steps are brand new, I just had them redone in brick and bluestone with a new pad after the old poured concrete steps crumbled deep. So now this $2,500 job is a $4,500 job if they can tunnel under it like Bugs Bunny without disturbing it, but there's a coin-flip chance that won't happen and it will be a $7,000 job.

At least I built equity, tho, right?

Sorry to hear bro, if people actually sat down and calculated their tax, insurance, repair, interest and miscellaneous costs of home ownership they pretty much are on par with renting especially if you couple in the time it takes to commute from living farther out from the city then if you rent closer to your job.No one ever talks about the time lost commuting in mindless traffic because the only home you could afford was 30 miles outside city limits.These idiots that get butt hurt and say "hrr drr equity" also don't add in the time and costs to maintain your home including lawn maintenance and other cleaning, repairs etc.

Like I said in the OP these morons get 10k in "equity" after buying some house made of plywood and all of a sudden act like they have a PhD in economics. Lol chit is funny af to see.

That's with the equity factored in, obviously.

There is rarely, if ever, a free lunch in investing, and that rule applies here, too.

Much of the money a landlord makes comes in the form of creating a job and paying himself for his time out of the cash flow (or, in the case of a bad landlord, deferring maintenance and cutting illegal corners), efficient practices, and proper handling of the money.

This is fine. It's how business works. However, if you're your own homeowner, you're in that position. A lot of money you're "saving" because your mortgage is ostensibly cheaper than renting and you're building equity needs to be set aside and put back into the "business".

Once you do that, it becomes clearer that there's no magical cash machine inside homeownership that spins off free money. It's just the ordinary gainz from sweat equity and investing that you can generate through numerous other channels. If you don't think in those terms, you're ending up taking out a loan for that new roof or whatever and it's the mortgage industry that's skimming the cream off your property, not you. People rarely think clearly about the money they lose that way.

None, because I did the math and would rather own stock. I've seriously considered buying up several properties in the last few years, they'd certainly be profitable, but it always comes back to the value of my time. The only situation I'd seriously consider taking on right now is a managed vacation rental that would be available for my personal use, as well.

For some reason, there's always a common thread with people who get butthurt about this topic notwantingto hear that it isn't a magical money machine and that it's just a business where they're getting compensated for the value they add. The successful real estate investors I've known are always keenly aware of this and that their tenants thinking they're making money off of them for free are idiots.

The world is full of poorly-run small businesses with prideful owners who make next to nothing and would have been better off putting the money in a stock portfolio and focusing on something else with their time, but point to whatever they did make and think they're doing great. Landlords are not immune to the biases that tend to screw over retail investors.

Owned a house for 10 years now. I agree the bank is raping me. But bought at 160K and neighbor just sold for $290 (his is smaller house). Also $1225 a month for 3b, 2bth, garage 2 living rooms a porch and a huge backyard. You ain't renting something like that anywhere close to $1200 (S Florida). Also they are building a Top Golf right around the corner so I'm hoping that sparks more business and cool sh*t.

That's a 4-5% CAGR. Better than the average of like 1% home value appreciation but not really that great.

just lol if you cant see the housing/real estate scam.

Your nations "financial sector" props up and inflates the housing and real estate sector into a bubble

when the bubble pops, these same "financers" buy these houses and properties on the cheap.

housing market comes back up, sell houses for huge profit

time goes by, not enough people buying houses, gotta lower qualifications to get a loan

demand goes up, people default, bubble pops again, "financers" get richer, rinse and repeat ad nauseum

no need to rent if you live in a tent

brb living in a souless suburb next to bob that only talks about the weather -Great reasoning dip sh!t
brb having to get a new roof, appliances and remodel your entire kitchen after 5 years -Train of thought thinking people need to remodel a kitchen and buy new appliances every 5 years.. obviously you are oblivious to logic.
brb when market finally does tank for good house will be worthless -If you say so, think smart - buy smart.
brb being the banks BISH for 30 years -Pay extra every month into principal and I won't be anyone's bish for 30 years.
brb thinking a piece of plywood built by illegal mexicans is a good "investment" -Another stupid reasoning behind your ignorance.
brb thinking your house is "worth" something when you havent even sold it and got cash in hand yet -Pull out equity...

Keep paying my bills on my rental properties. Thanks; come again.I'm guessing you live in St. Pete

I not only agree, but would agree that renters, as a whole, tend to be more confused about the math than homeowners. Yet a lot of what homeowners believe comes straight from brochures handed to them by people with incentives to sell them things, not to give them a clear picture.Yup, and I'm not trashing real estate investment. If I had free time to do tradie things myself - and I do enjoy some of it - I'd absolutely do that, but that's really my point. It'scompletelylegitimate to cash in by creating an opportunity to pay yourself for your time.

Once you pare that all down, though, to an equivalently passive investment, a property is just a small business, non-diversified and very exposed to day-to-day vagaries ranging from tenants turning into pitbull hoarders to the utility company causing a gas explosion. If you're getting compensated, you're getting compensatedforsomething, and if you can't figure out what it is, it's almost certainly a risk you haven't identified yet. Larger, professionally-managed businesses pay a team to stay ahead of that, and that's part of what you're paying yourself for, too, if you take an active role in managing your own property.

Case in point is the 2-4% of my home's value I'm spending simply because itrained really hardfor 15 minutes, and the only reason it wasn't 10-15% is because I did identify some of the risk and bought an optional insurance rider for it. It also helps that I was physically present to start the initial pump work, organize the cleanup team, and drag out property on my own time, because two days later, I'd have been on vacation and outsourcing that - or the security system might not have tipped me off and I'd have come home to an unbelievable festering disaster that went way, way beyond my insurance coverage.

...and of course, I have cash to put back into the "business" of the property. Some of my neighbors are taking out equity lines, putting it on credit cards, or not able to afford repairs at all and are simply losing some of their investment - on which they may still owe money. For those people who were operating their home on thin margins and weren't managing it carefully, some are getting absolutely brutalized over renting.In fairness, he also got the use of a house, but yes. This kind of mistake is exactly the issue.

Living in a house makes me happy.

Boomer again going off the rails about home ownership lol.

Did you post some simplified scenarios in the previous pages of the thread to get your point across this time?

One of the main reasons to own rather than rent is that your mortgage payment is fixed for the life of the loan (assuming you have a traditional mortgage). Your insurance and tax payments will likely go up, but if your mortgage payment is $1000/mo in 2019, it will be $1000/mo in 2029, $1000/mo in 2039, and ideally $0/mo in 2049.

In most cases, rent increases year-over-year. If your rent is $1000/mo and increases, on average, 2% per year, it will be ~$1218 in 2029, ~$1485 in 2039 and $1811/mo in 2049.

When we bought our house two years ago, we could make the mortgage payment without any trouble, but it really did take a bite out of our monthly income. Two years of raises/promotions later, and that bite is much smaller. Meanwhile, rent in our area has increased by 5-7% over the same timeframe.

I didn't know you worked.

that was a copypasta, there's no 'we' in my situation LOL ALLLL ME brudduh.

i..kinda...work. sometimes. should do a lot more but ya

Or when sponging off your mom while living in her basement.

really sad to see how desperate the boomers are itt when proven wrong by real estate. They have been so condition, so programmed, so brainwashed by the elites and the huge banks that if you say anything against them they get so angry and butt hurt just lmfaoo and their only argument is "urine idiot!". LOLOL