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Forum » Practicing medicine now, I see just how immune doctors are from AI/automation (srs)
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Thread: Practicing medicine now, I see just how immune doctors are from AI/automation (srs)

post 1596721391 01-30-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By NVious⏩
people who understand history.
How many autonomous sentient beings have we created? Hey i know theres a theory thats what we are, but... Just a theory like the big bang

When pointed to specific contention itt most ai'ers then just change the definition of what it means to be intelligent and at the very least admit there are things ai still cant do
post 1596721841 01-30-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
Basic summation OTT

Medical/Healthcare crew

- Medicine is complex field requiring humanity at its core to function.
a lot of the extreme dysfunction of medicine can be attributed to human frailty, so off top your summation isnt compelling.

maybe things are different in austrailia but it is a clusterfuk here. not some uptopian doctor patient love fest. have a google "opioid epidemic"

its complex but nothing MAKES it require humans, any more than a chess player needs a human opponent
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post 1596722141 01-30-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
How many autonomous sentient beings have we created? Hey i know theres a theory thats what we are, but... Just a theory like the big bang

When pointed to specific contention itt most ai'ers then just change the definition of what it means to be intelligent and at the very least admit there are things ai still cant do
we cant make a robot that shiits yet. so you got us there. is your whole point semantic?

"you cant even make a human that digs ditches, leave alone perform surgery!"

no ones tried to argue this so your strawmanning presumably because its now late in the day.
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post 1596722281 01-30-2020, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
Im not rebutting anything you've said above but I do have opinions on all of it...

Please be aware that the health insurance companies are one of the largest adopters of AI...

They've already implemented it..Its already running in the background to identify risk and chronic conditions....They dont care about the patient or the doctor. They want to reduce costs

You are debating an end game but the reality is that its already here. Its already being used. It will continue to grow as the financials make an undeniable case. The medical community is literally fighting the tide of time and money...

In the end the patients will demand it...
We aren’t fighting anything my friend! where AI/ automation is useful it is adapted, has been since the start of medicine.
What I am arguing is that there will not be a replacement for human doctors by an AI driven autonomy, machine arm, whatever you can imagine.

Also - I am assuming you are American and base your economic views on the privatized health insurance system there.

Have you the data on cost application for these technologies in a Universal healthcare system?

Would the taxpayer vote the government to implement these technologies if there was say, an increase in taxation to offset the cost?

We can all talk hypothetical arguments

AI MIGHT get to a level of complexity similar to the human mind required to effectively function in a complex system such as healthcare in complete isolation from human input.
But the evidence given here does not support that being any time soon or even if it is inevitable
- just because a few people here say it will happen doesn’t make it gospel!

Regardless, the issue I am seeing now is much to complicated to be properly worked out over this forum. I do appreciate the recent input from the AI crew but still haven’t been persuaded based of current knowledge and future speculations!
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post 1596722341 01-30-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
would you use a machine learning program to screen for cancer that has been proven to outperform humans?
Sure. Now answer my question on how you'll make history taking easier by using a robot. It's such a simple part of the equation that you don't have an answer to, at all. So please just admit your entire model is useless.
Originally Posted By MyGhettoFantasy⏩
Didn't read all pages but I have the impression that a lot of people itt need a better doctor.

Diagnosis is a small (albeit critical) part of effective medicine. The ability to positively affect patient compliance is, in my opinion, the difference between a good doctor and a greater doctor assuming all else is equal.

Most people are going to die from some sort of chronic condition that will gradually kill them or induce some acute episode that kills them. Often times these conditions can be prevented or managed by a competent , personable doctor that is able to convince a patient to implement a treatment plan, encourage their morale, and foster an honest relationship wherein a patient offers truthful answers and vital information.

Just lol at putting medicine down to computational power. I don't know how strong of an argument can be made that AI imitating human affect will be able to convince an incredulous patient to work with the prescription.
lol this. People thinking medicine is all diagnosis and writing scripts. Such a tiny part of the day to day work.
Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
oh idgaf i think they need it to pay back uncle sam. i just take issue with op saying his diagnosing intellect cant be modeled by a computer bc he caught an HIV diagnosis based on a weird vibe he had.

or because what if a patient is illiterate or doesn't have any hands or something.
Has nothing to do with intellect. Just knowing when to suspect xyz social situations was enough for me to probe further.
And what is the patient going to do with their hands? Point?

History taking is a conversation that can go on for 10-15 minutes or much longer. Knowing what questions to ask is a skill that takes years to develop for doctors. You literally cannot tell me who or what is going to ask questions and how they will gather information from the patient. In other words, your model is stuck in week 1 of medical school.
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post 1596722481 01-30-2020, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
How many autonomous sentient beings have we created? Hey i know theres a theory thats what we are, but... Just a theory like the big bang

When pointed to specific contention itt most ai'ers then just change the definition of what it means to be intelligent and at the very least admit there are things ai still cant do
Im not sure where you got your ideas on AI...I've literally never heard AI being positioned as an autonomous sentient being....Not by any scientist, in any lab, in any discussion.

AI is simply software that is programmed to look at data stores, provide data points and make decisions....Its very complex but the high level ideology is really that simple.
post 1596722501 01-30-2020, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
Sure.
.
we're done here.
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post 1596722541 01-30-2020, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
Basic summation OTT

Medical/Healthcare crew

- Medicine is complex field requiring humanity at its core to function
- experts in field (surgeons and doctors of the Misc)offer their educated opinion regarding the requirement of emotional aspect to function properly and this is ignored by non-medical background AI proponents
- realize that medicine is more than a business model driven to become more and more efficient at the detriment of above said humanity
- have not been shown any evidence to back up claims of speculation from AI crew

AI crew

- AI learning is beyond scope of medical
Professionals
- extrapolate that because of predictive models suggesting advances that haven’t yet to happen they WILL happen
- continuously ignore the expert views given by medical experts
- give a few examples of how AI can be used in medical field that are way way off being steps towards full automation

Both parties - we will have to agree to
Disagree I think!

both approaching the issue with the same principles of argument - the other side can’t comprehend the complexities of the issue thus the other side is wrong.

Truthfully need an AI implementing expert with a background in clinical medicine to have a proper educated and tempered view of the whole picture.

Cliffs

Arguments on both sides defer to complexities the opposite side cannot comprehend

ends in stalemate ie - misc medicos not persuaded of the AI POV, Misc AI not persuaded of Misc MeD POV...
The issue is that at least the medical experts have some understanding of AI. And their understanding of medicine is infinitely greater than the AI proponents understanding of their own AI. The AI crew also has essentially zero understanding of medicine. When you put those things together, it becomes laughable.
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post 1596722631 01-30-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
we're done here.
And by ignoring my question for the 7th time, you admit your AI stuff is complete nonsense.
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post 1596723051 01-30-2020, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By AltarOfPlagues⏩
a lot of the extreme dysfunction of medicine can be attributed to human frailty, so off top your summation isnt compelling.

maybe things are different in austrailia but it is a clusterfuk here. not some uptopian doctor patient love fest. have a google "opioid epidemic"

its complex but nothing MAKES it require humans, any more than a chess player needs a human opponent
simple question - do you practice clinical medicine.
If no - what evidence do you have to state with confidence that human influence is NOT required for effective healthcare delivery?
Plastic/Reconstructive =/= Cosmetic Surgery....

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post 1596723161 01-30-2020, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
The issue is that at least the medical experts have some understanding of AI. And their understanding of medicine is infinitely greater than the AI proponents understanding of their own AI. The AI crew also has essentially zero understanding of medicine. When you put those things together, it becomes laughable.
There are no such thing as AI proponets. There are no two sides of the equation...There are simply businesses that want to reduce cost or improve performance and subsequently these business drive AI initiatives. Therefore the data is not owned by some mysterious "proponent" of AI. Its being driven by the medical community, the insurance companies, the drug companies, etc. If you doubt these data store then you are doubting the very data sources that the doctors use to make decisions. You may as well throw out medical studies, white papers, medical schools, etc..

AI "eats" you from the inside...Its not an external force. If you doubt AI then you are saying your own information you have gathered is bogus. If the data you've gathered is bogus then thats a billboard that the operation you manage is worthless.


No shadow group came to me and forced AI upon the operations I manage. I was looking for cost reduction and service improvement and AI was a clear driver. They were my data stores...It was my ROI...It drove the results I was after....I wasnt a proponent of anything but benefit to my bottom line...Did this have real world results on my staffing - Absolutely. It wasnt diabolical and I took care of them with new/different jobs.

Granted ^^ this was after multiple case studies but I still drove the initiative...Why did I drive the initiative, the results were undeniable.
post 1596723631 01-30-2020, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
Basic summation OTT

Medical/Healthcare crew

- Medicine is complex field requiring humanity at its core to function
- experts in field (surgeons and doctors of the Misc)offer their educated opinion regarding the requirement of emotional aspect to function properly and this is ignored by non-medical background AI proponents
- realize that medicine is more than a business model driven to become more and more efficient at the detriment of above said humanity
- have not been shown any evidence to back up claims of speculation from AI crew

AI crew

- AI learning is beyond scope of medical
Professionals
- extrapolate that because of predictive models suggesting advances that haven’t yet to happen they WILL happen
- continuously ignore the expert views given by medical experts
- give a few examples of how AI can be used in medical field that are way way off being steps towards full automation

Both parties - we will have to agree to
Disagree I think!

both approaching the issue with the same principles of argument - the other side can’t comprehend the complexities of the issue thus the other side is wrong.

Truthfully need an AI implementing expert with a background in clinical medicine to have a proper educated and tempered view of the whole picture.

Cliffs

Arguments on both sides defer to complexities the opposite side cannot comprehend

ends in stalemate ie - misc medicos not persuaded of the AI POV, Misc AI not persuaded of Misc MeD POV...
if this thread isn't proof doctors are low iq bums idk what is lol

the point people are tying to make is that can the primary function of your profession be replaced by ai? and the answer is yes, diagnosis, prescription, treatment, surgery can all be handled by technology making you the practitioner OBSOLETE

the medical professionals itt hit back with b-b-but muh feeelings n shiet guise, 'human factor' can't ever be replicated as if that's in anyway a meaningful rebuttal lmao, i mean if it's that important they could just hire female babysitters to soothe the crybaby patients at a fraction it costs to employ you overpaid useless dudes
post 1596724301 01-30-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
We aren’t fighting anything my friend! where AI/ automation is useful it is adapted, has been since the start of medicine.
What I am arguing is that there will not be a replacement for human doctors by an AI driven autonomy, machine arm, whatever you can imagine.

Also - I am assuming you are American and base your economic views on the privatized health insurance system there.

Have you the data on cost application for these technologies in a Universal healthcare system?

Would the taxpayer vote the government to implement these technologies if there was say, an increase in taxation to offset the cost?

We can all talk hypothetical arguments

AI MIGHT get to a level of complexity similar to the human mind required to effectively function in a complex system such as healthcare in complete isolation from human input.
But the evidence given here does not support that being any time soon or even if it is inevitable
- just because a few people here say it will happen doesn’t make it gospel!

Regardless, the issue I am seeing now is much to complicated to be properly worked out over this forum. I do appreciate the recent input from the AI crew but still haven’t been persuaded based of current knowledge and future speculations!
The case study I was involved with applied the impact of the study to a privatized system and a universal healthcare system.

I cant share the results of the study because Im under an NDA. The case study was conducted on an actual data source from the medical community. What I can tell you is that the case study of AI showed showed revolutionary improvements in proactive resolution, improved patient care, reduced cost, increased quality of life. There are other areas of reduction/improvement I will not mention. 100% of these benefits were based upon the reduction of medical involvement, restructuring of care organization, streamline of scheduling, etc, etc...

I will not mention the total MRC/YRC cost reduction for an individual/government but I can assure you the Governments of the world, taxpayers, insurance companies will demand it. They will not only demand it from a cost perspective but they will demand it from the significant improvements over our current system...

In closing - This isnt hypothetical. AI already running today in numerous universities, insurance companies, research facilities...Its only a matter of time before its patient facing. This can easily be verified by hitting Google and looking up the numerous articles, studies and white papers that are readily available. The realities just havent hit the front line with doctors, nurses and patients..The odds are the very hospitals you work for right now has an instance running or is talking with a vendor/provider.

Will all doctors be replaced tomorrow, of course not. Will the path that AI lead us down drastically reduce doctor involvement, absolutely. Will the expected path remove the requirement for the vast majority of doctors, absolutely.
post 1596724791 01-30-2020, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
simple question -do you practice clinical medicine.
If no - what evidence do you have to state with confidence that human influence is NOT required for effective healthcare delivery?
He saw a doctor once for a rash that went away on his own. And remembers seeing a doctor as a kid when he had a cold. Makes him an expert on clinical medicine.
Originally Posted By lolXlol⏩
if this thread isn't proof doctors are low iq bums idk what is lol

the point people are tying to make is that can the primary function of your profession be replaced by ai? and the answer is yes, diagnosis, prescription, treatment, surgery can all be handled by technology making you the practitioner OBSOLETE

the medical professionals itt hit back with b-b-but muh feeelings n shiet guise, 'human factor' can't ever be replicated as if that's in anyway a meaningful rebuttal lmao, i mean if it's that important they could just hire female babysitters to soothe the crybaby patients at a fraction it costs to employ you overpaid useless dudes
If anything this thread is hard proof just how poor our education system is in teaching the average person (aka you) on how to think.

We keep telling you that you have 0 insight into medicine whatsoever, and you keep repeating the same points. If you don't even know what a job entails, at all, you should refrain from commenting on it and instead read and learn.

And what AI can do in the distant future is irrelevant, we're talking about this generation.
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post 1596724971 01-30-2020, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By lolXlol⏩
if this thread isn't proof doctors are low iq bums idk what is lol

the point people are tying to make is that can the primary function of your profession be replaced by ai? and the answer is yes, diagnosis, prescription, treatment, surgery can all be handled by technology making you the practitioner OBSOLETE

the medical professionals itt hit back with b-b-but muh feeelings n shiet guise, 'human factor' can't ever be replicated as if that's in anyway a meaningful rebuttal lmao, i mean if it's that important they could just hire female babysitters to soothe the crybaby patients at a fraction it costs to employ you overpaid useless dudes
Common brah - making such sweeping statements and obviously misinformed ideas about medicine is part of the issue we have teased out in this thread. you are not adding anything beneficial so why pipe up?

Also -

where is the evidence in this thread that even the most basic entry level functions of medicine are being replaced by AI? augmented - absolutely! replaced - not even close!
Plastic/Reconstructive =/= Cosmetic Surgery....

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post 1596725031 01-30-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
The case study I was involved with applied the impact of the study to a privatized system and a universal healthcare system.

I cant share the results of the study because Im under an NDA. The case study was conducted on an actual data source from the medical community. What I can tell you is that the case study of AI showed showed revolutionary improvements in proactive resolution, improved patient care, reduced cost, increased quality of life. There are other areas of reduction/improvement I will not mention. 100% of these benefits were based upon the reduction of medical involvement, restructuring of care organization, streamline of scheduling, etc, etc...

I will not mention the total MRC/YRC cost reduction for an individual/government but I can assure you the Governments of the world, taxpayers, insurance companies will demand it. They will not only demand it from a cost perspective but they will demand it from the significant improvements over our current system...

In closing - This isnt hypothetical. AI already running today in numerous universities, insurance companies, research facilities...Its only a matter of time before its patient facing. This can easily be verified by hitting Google and looking up the numerous articles, studies and white papers that are readily available. The realities just havent hit the front line with doctors, nurses and patients..The odds are the very hospitals you work for right now has an instance running or is talking with a vendor/provider.

Will all doctors be replaced tomorrow, of course not. Will the path that AI lead us down drastically reduce doctor involvement, absolutely. Will the expected path remove the requirement for the vast majority of doctors, absolutely.
Am i understanding that savings in reoccurring costs will basically force socialized medicine?
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
Common brah - making such sweeping statements and obviously misinformed ideas about medicine is part of the issue we have teased out in this thread. you are not adding anything beneficial so why pipe up?

Also -

where is the evidence in this thread that even the most basic entry level functions of medicine are being replaced by AI? augmented - absolutely! replaced - not even close!
lol in your own country they literally invented an app to diagnose respiratoy illnesses and i'm guessing you didn't even know this lol

your arrogance has blinded you to the realities dude, we are on the precipice of the GREAT REPLACEMENT in medicine

you and your people are donezo dude
A group of Australian researchers have recently developed an AI-powered smartphone app that can diagnose respiratory disorders by “listening” to the user’s cough. This technology was developed by researchers at Curtin University and The University of Queensland, Australia, whose findings were published June 6 in the journal Respiratory Research.

The researchers created an algorithm that can analyze coughs for features that are unique to five different diseases. This technique is similar to speech recognition technologies in that the software examines the auditory cough for characteristics specific to these conditions.

This is typically done by a physician during a clinical exam, with a stethoscope being used to listen to sound produced while breathing or coughing (auscultation). The downside to this is that the patient must be in the presence of a trained professional to have their respiration sounds analyzed. By empowering the smartphone with this machine learning technology; however, these researchers have created a possible means of remote diagnosis through auditory cough analysis.
post 1596725791 01-30-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted By BOZZ⏩
Am i understanding that savings in reoccurring costs will basically force socialized medicine?
AI does not force or justify socialized medicine. It works in a privatized system or in a universal healthcare system. It will be a major driver by political parties to justify socialized medicine, however....

Why do I say that - The larger the data store the more significant the cost reduction and the improved analysis. I feel very confident proponents of socialized medicine will use AI as a primary driver - "We can reduce 90% of the current health cost by implementing universal health care driven by AI"...(90% is obviously a percentage I threw out on the wall with no validity).

This is partially true and partially false. The data store would be larger but there is no reasons data stores shouldnt be shared without government involvement. Data stores will NEED to be opened across numerous sectors to gain the maximum benefit. This was one of the main drivers for the internet so data stores could be shared between universities.
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Originally Posted By lolXlol⏩
lol in your own country they literally invented an app to diagnose respiratoy illnesses and i'm guessing you didn't even know this lol

your arrogance has blinded you to the realities dude, we are on the precipice of the GREAT REPLACEMENT in medicine

you and your people are donezo dude
Cant wait until someone is incorrectly diagnosed. And hopefully even medicine is administered and fuks his/ her chit up

Actually, i dont wish that, but kinda hope it happens to the proponents of ai and then they deal with the repercussions of being diagnosed over a fuken app
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Originally Posted By Hardlifter9⏩
The issue is that at least the medical experts have some understanding of AI. And their understanding of medicine is infinitely greater than the AI proponents understanding of their own AI. The AI crew also has essentially zero understanding of medicine. When you put those things together, it becomes laughable.
Nah, you're just naive. Other medical posters itt maybe have some understanding. You don't. At all.

Once again. It's easier for anybody understand what requires a doctor to be a doctor than what requires AI to be AI, as you have clearly shown across 15 pages


Edit 15 pages boil down to this:
You: AI can't do what doctors do because what doctors is complex
Reasonable people: AI can handle more and more complex problems and it's entirely reasonable to believe based on AI progression timeline that it will be able to handle doctor-level complex problems sooner rather than later
You: But you don't get it, what doctors do is too complex.
Reasonable people: AI can handle more and more complex problems....

repeat
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
AI does not force or justify socialized medicine. It works in a privatized system or in a universal healthcare system. It will be a major driver by political parties to justify socialized medicine, however....

Why do I say that - The larger the data store the more significant the cost reduction and the improved analysis. I feel very confident proponents of socialized medicine will use AI as a primary driver - "We can reduce 90% of the current health cost by implementing universal health care driven by AI"...(90% is obviously a percentage I threw out on the wall with no validity).
Using it as a justification for universal healthcare is one of my main concerns for algorithmic bias. Especially if ruling out certain treatments based solely on an algorithm determining it's not cost effective or has a small success rate


Appreciate the answer as oppsed to the "Herp derp doctors have bias too..." reply
post 1596726231 01-30-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
The case study I was involved with applied the impact of the study to a privatized system and a universal healthcare system.

I cant share the results of the study because Im under an NDA. The case study was conducted on an actual data source from the medical community. What I can tell you is that the case study of AI showed showed revolutionary improvements in proactive resolution, improved patient care, reduced cost, increased quality of life. There are other areas of reduction/improvement I will not mention. 100% of these benefits were based upon the reduction of medical involvement, restructuring of care organization, streamline of scheduling, etc, etc...

I will not mention the total MRC/YRC cost reduction for an individual/government but I can assure you the Governments of the world, taxpayers, insurance companies will demand it. They will not only demand it from a cost perspective but they will demand it from the significant improvements over our current system...

In closing - This isnt hypothetical. AI already running today in numerous universities, insurance companies, research facilities...Its only a matter of time before its patient facing. This can easily be verified by hitting Google and looking up the numerous articles, studies and white papers that are readily available. The realities just havent hit the front line with doctors, nurses and patients..The odds are the very hospitals you work for right now has an instance running or is talking with a vendor/provider.

Will all doctors be replaced tomorrow, of course not. Will the path that AI lead us down drastically reduce doctor involvement, absolutely. Will the expected path remove the requirement for the vast majority of doctors, absolutely.
I certainly am interested to hear what data set was used and the results when this study is published - if the differences were truly statistically significant then bravo - sounds good.

until then, my view isn’t changed!
Plastic/Reconstructive =/= Cosmetic Surgery....

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post 1596726661 01-30-2020, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted By BOZZ⏩
Using it as a justification for universal healthcare is one of my main concerns for algorithmic bias. Especially if some ruling out certain treatments based solely on an algorithm
Agree 100%...AI has accuracy ratings in the high 90% range. Its so far beyond a doctors capabilities its hard to wrap your hands around it. The reality is that if AI predicts with a high level of accuracy thenones hand (government) is almost forced. If AI analyzes the data store and says you have a health issue with 99% accuracy and they dont take action, they can be held accountable.

The concern is if you own the AI, you own the data store and you have bias.... you can make it say anything you want...I could theoretically make it say you have a 1% chance of cancer when you actually have a 99% chance of cancer. We all hope this would never happen and that the cost reductions would be significant enough to prevent these types of shenanigans. In a world where population control and climate change is regularly discussed, who is to say the algorithm isnt programmed to diminish the odds of cancer/cancer treatment after 70....Thin the heard.

Thats a huge leap but I understand the concerns.
post 1596726691 01-30-2020, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted By lolXlol⏩
lol in your own country they literally invented an app to diagnose respiratoy illnesses and i'm guessing you didn't even know this lol

your arrogance has blinded you to the realities dude, we are on the precipice of the GREAT REPLACEMENT in medicine

you and your people are donezo dude
Looking forward to seeing a drastic decline in primary care antibiotic usage and therefore resistance in the coming years thanks to your app
post 1596727151 01-30-2020, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted By lolXlol⏩
lol in your own country they literally invented an app to diagnose respiratoy illnesses and i'm guessing you didn't even know this lol

your arrogance has blinded you to the realities dude, we are on the precipice of the GREAT REPLACEMENT in medicine

you and your people are donezo dude
You actually are a fool - this tech isn’t in use and results only showed a 79% sensitivity for certain conditions when compare to clinical expert consensus

For ONE clinical symptom. With the addition of data entry other symptoms/signs as well...

Is it was only as good 80% of the time as the clinician...
It might be helpful in remote places where they are far away from a specialized clinician but it doesn’t inspire confidence to make Doctors obsolete! Lol
Plastic/Reconstructive =/= Cosmetic Surgery....

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Here for a laugh and to escape the grind, don't take too much of what I say too seriously.

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post 1596727321 01-30-2020, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
I certainly am interested to hear what data set was used and the results when this study is published - if the differences were truly statistically significant then bravo - sounds good.

until then, my view isn’t changed!
Absolutely and fair enough. The thing that I can encourage you to do is get on the front end of AI. I've implemented AI at my work. Those that were resistant and failed to adapt made themselves extinct. Those that educated themselves and learned to work with AI made themselves irreplaceable (for the time being)...The reality is that AI is a business advantage to you and your patients. If you resist it you become a dinosaur because your competition WILL use it. You can improve your service and drive out cost if you adapt.

I constantly talk to my staff about changing from the old world of doing business to providing new value based off of the analytics and decision making process of AI...Is anyone else out there talking about this -NO. Should high schools, colleges, parents and employers be talking about this - YES! We see this train coming...There will be new careers for kids in school age that will be involved in AI OPs and build around AI OPs. We are preparing our kids for jobs that wont be there or will have modified to the point that the current education system is not prepared to inform/educate. I would HIGHLY recommend a field in robotics or data science/analytics if you are in high school...These careers are going to experience a hug boom and will be around until "the end"..
post 1596727921 01-30-2020, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By lolXlol⏩
lol in your own country they literally invented an app to diagnose respiratoy illnesses and i'm guessing you didn't even know this lol

your arrogance has blinded you to the realities dude, we are on the precipice of the GREAT REPLACEMENT in medicine

you and your people are donezo dude
I have a friend that designed a home based analysis system...He layered AI on top of the data store. He is predicting health concerns months before symptoms and doctors visits.
post 1596728041 01-30-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
I would HIGHLY recommend a field in robotics or data science/analytics if you are in high school
If these ai that we are creating are fully sentient and autonomous why in the world would they not be able to write their own language and program themselves?

That seems like an easier field to acquire than the tactile, tacitly humanistic empathetic field of caring for humans
post 1596728081 01-30-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted By propreffered7⏩
Cant wait until someone is incorrectly diagnosed. And hopefully even medicine is administered and fuks his/ her chit up

Actually, i dont wish that, but kinda hope it happens to the proponents of ai and then they deal with the repercussions of being diagnosed over a fuken app
yes... becasue human doctors are infallible

idk you're even defending doctors, these guys are cold blooded extortionists that have no problem bankrupting good hardwarking american families to enrich themselves

the quicker they get replaced the better
Originally Posted By mandarino⏩
Looking forward to seeing a drastic decline in primary care antibiotic usage and therefore resistance in the coming years thanks to your app
great point

doctors are such incompetent bums lol
Originally Posted By SurgeonBrah⏩
You actually are a fool - this tech isn’t in use and results only showed a 79% sensitivity for certain conditions when compare to clinical expert consensus

For ONE clinical symptom. With the addition of data entry other symptoms/signs as well...

Is it was only as good 80% of the time as the clinician...
It might be helpful in remote places where they are far away from a specialized clinician but it doesn’t inspire confidence to make Doctors obsolete! Lol
imagine thinking a technology in it's infancy that's going to be refined over and over is the finished product... like srsly

and again the overarching point is that the replacement is starting to happen, we are on the frontiers of ai development in the medical space and you will soon be on the street working the corners for a living
post 1596728121 01-30-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted By Scarrdbutsmartr⏩
Absolutely and fair enough. The thing that I can encourage you to do is get on the front end of AI. I've implemented AI at my work. Those that were resistant and failed to adapt made themselves extinct. Those that educated themselves and learned to work with AI made themselves irreplaceable (for the time being)...The reality is that AI is a business advantage to you and your patients. If you resist it you become a dinosaur because your competition WILL use it. You can improve your service and drive out cost if you adapt.

I constantly talk to my staff about changing from the old world of doing business to providing new value based off of the analytics and decision making process of AI...Is anyone else out there talking about this -NO. Should high schools, colleges, parents and employers be talking about this - YES! We see this train coming...There will be new careers for kids in school age that will be involved in AI OPs and build around AI OPs. We are preparing our kids for jobs that wont be there or will have modified to the point that the current education system is not prepared to inform/educate. I would HIGHLY recommend a field in robotics or data science/analytics if you are in high school...These careers are going to experience a hug boom and will be around until "the end"..
I can definitely agree with you on that. Doing medicine sometimes makes me feel so detached from what everyone else is doing/the world around me.
I feel that in my lifetime i will never be hunting for a job, which brings me comfort especially as jobs become more ‘obsolete’ in one way or another like you described
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