https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-une...=hp_listc_pos1


Cliffs:

Face time matters, even if the work is the same
'out of site out of mind' might apply to getting passed over on promotions
WFH employees might get 'unfairly' treated in this regard.





My takeaway is... so what? One thing people, especially Millennials, need to get over is the childish notion that you can 'have it all'. The same applies for things like maternity leave - if you have a kid and it forces you to be out of office for 4 months then yea you better believe the man or woman who is in the office those months should get preferential treatment. It's ok to recognize that your career will be impacted by lifestyle choices and accepting that. Once you realize you cant have everything you can begin to prioritize what really matters.


In conclusion just LOL at giving up WFH for the chance of getting promoted. Work in a corporate job and youll see that a promotion is generally your current salary + 10-20% more money. Also, even if you're a 'high achiever' it likely means you get promoted just one year quicker than the average performer, two years tops. Meanwhile if you are WFH you have complete freedom and flexibility over your schedule. Also, the money you save on lifestyle benefits from WFH will likely cancel out any salary increases from a promotion (less daycare, not eating out, no commuting, etc.)

I cant imagine the mentality to give up WFH to rush back in the office 5 days a week so you can be Sr. Paper Pusher instead of just Paper Pusher. Anyways, I said my piece

It’s all a cost/benefit analysis.

If you can save more working from home, then that makes sense.

If you can make $100k/year more going into the office, that makes sense as you can retire far earlier. That makes sense.

Do whatever gets you the highest quality of life + max income for your personal situation.

Agree OP.

Who cares?

Not very many WFH employees.

Maybe some managers though.

Seems likely to lead to more flattening of organizations/fewer middle management positions.

Ya that’s been my MO srs. Just work 3-5 years at a company, move jobs, get a massive pay bump. Best part is you can be half ass and don’t even have to care about long term growth via networking, doing favors, getting rotations for additional experience in, etc


If you ever get another job offer and they ask your salary use this GOAT tactic: say “I make x now (don’t lie) but am up for promotion later this year (100% lie) and am expected to make Y amount (another lie), so any offer I take id expect to pay at least that but ideally more”


Basically good way to get out of salary verification limiting your job switching gains

I could see WFH leading to less promotions, but the lack of promotions will just lead to more resentment from employees who will look for higher paying jobs -> higher turnover for previous employer.

It works out the opposite where I'm at but I think that's a one-off. There's the children who need to be supervised in person and narc C-suiters who need validation from their minions and the people at home who run the show. But again, I'm sure that's atypical.

Don’t have a scarcity mentality. Your employer and your woman are very similar in how you handle both. The 20 year lifetime employee is equally as ****ed as the guy who was a virgin before meeting his wife


Layoffs mean severance plus pay bump. There are worse things

nah i dont need more stress

I completely agree with that article.

There is a resentment towards people in my workplace refusing to return to the office.
They aren't anywhere near as productive working from home as we are working from the office and I guess their expectations are we pick up the slack.

That being said I've had 2 promotions in 2 years (nobody else has) - I have also not worked a single day from home.

Oh I agree with the article too. But as a WFHcel I accept it. Make more than enough money, and any salary boosts would not offset the lifestyle gains for me personally that WFH provides. My issue is with people that want their cake and eat it too (aka I can work remotely, still get promoted the same)


Good quote to live by: in life you can have anything, but you can’t have everything. I truly believe that - whatever you want you can get. But it all comes with trade offs. Every decision.

Once you realize and accept that you can make the best decisions for you and not be frustrated when things don’t go your way. Instead you’ll understand why, and accept it since after all its your decision now - not theirs

I WFH'd before the pandemic as my boss works 1,000 miles away and will continue for probably the rest of my career. It's the GOAT life. No bullchit co-worker chit, I literally watch tv and work from my couch all day. I do all my errands during the day. Best part is most of my company is WFH so I'll still get my promotions.

Lol @ boomers trying to justify returning to the office.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Too much of the workforce has seen the light. Not only does it benefit workers to WFH, the recruiting pool for the company grows exponentially as well. Top tier talent will prefer to have the flexibility of WFH rather than some podunk job that requires you to show up in person.

You lost the war boomers, get over it

Talked to the head guy yesterday and he's totally fine with me moving to full remote and moving to another state. Me moving out of California and keeping my Bay Area salary is like a 100% raise so I don't really care if I don't get a promotion. Don't really care if I'm the first to go either, IT is full of remote work or I can always do the "consulting" thing which has more or less been remote since before the WuFlu times. But since there has been little productivity drop with most people not in the office and we are actively looking for remote positions to hire what we need I'm not really worried.

Engineer bro and I don't give a fuk. I have no paths to internal promotion that don't involve either A. replacing my manager (divorced dad with a literal million-dollar mortgage... he will be working until he drops) or switching teams and trying to replace their manager (and competing with people who've already been there).

I am not even thinking about a promotion within the next 10 years, ded srs.

This is more relevant, given that the place I work for is a layoff machine vvvBut as a guy with low skill, a high salary for what he does, no time in seat, no wife, no kids, no mortgage, and not even a fukking date... I know I am at the front of the line for any layoffs, WFH be dammed.

Legit the only card I have to play is tribalism/racism. I have a white Republican boomer boss in a company that is no chit 95% foreigners.

This. Fact is of the regional major employers near me, the ones going after top talent have to at least do a hybrid model. If you’re sought after then you can basically pick your benefits, and WFH will always be on the table


The people saying everyone at their company comes in now 5 days a week likely just work in a traditional cube farm surrounded by glennas who come to work at 9, head out at 5, wash and repeat for decades.


The fact that you can do your corporate job either entirely at home or hybrid (2-3 days at home) will be the biggest quality of life increase for the average person in decades.

bingo.

It’s a tug o war

Employers have power because now they aren’t limited to their city - they can recruit nationwide

But employees have that same power as well. They can apply anywhere.

Who wins? Who knows. But I don’t think people will be screwed until ****** phone starts to ring

Anyone who spends more than 2 years at teh same company "is" absolutely getting mogged by the company.

Tfw u get promoted while WFH because somebody else left

okay?

and that's a poor management problem. The individuals should still have the same KPIs and goals to meet.

Just because you are working from home doesn't meet those standards are no longer there.

Most professionals I know, especially those without kids are more productive at home because no distractions have have their own office spaces/desks.

Yeah, the idiots that just put their laptop at their kitchen counter while watching their kid scream aren't doing chit.

the amount of people clinging to office culture (even ITT) is pathetic lmao

Why? Am I supposed to be scared they are going to hire a remote Indian to replace another remote employee? A lot of IT has been remote for a long time before this. I have a load of software engineering/cloud and management experience. Finding another job isn't really a problem. So sorry boomer, just because you slaved away for 20 years in the office farm doesn't mean it has to be that way always. Besides, I've been debt free for a long time and live well beneath my means even in California. I could go for probably 4-5 years without working here, at least 10 once I move back home. US has probably about 10 years before it becomes South Africa so worrying about my boss replacing me is going to be the least of my worries in the not too distant future.

you can tell he's a 60+ year old boomer because he's in WFH thread bashing WFH and in ever whoremaxx thread bashing whoremaxxers lol

There is no fixed metric or rule of thumb for business organization. There are so many factors and possibilities that to speak about it in these terms would require unrealistic generalization. It's a very topical article for our times, but I don't think it covers everyone's workplace. I have worked remote for years and received promotions at slow and fast paces.

What is more important than anything else is results. Whether you are remote or in-person, there can be a very relaxed standard for white collar workers. If you can exceed this standard by a great degree, then any sort of internal movement is possible.

To be honest, the existing notions of employment and advancement for the average American is very limited. I believe that there is a strong impulse to simply settle at a certain level and indulge in whatever you can consume. That is the great and comforting appeal of settling for cozy mediocrity. I would not look down on anyone if they were perfectly satisfied with a comfortable first world existence through a lifetime of steady toil and stagnation.

In some parts of the country, life is closer to a warzone than it is a cheeky little neighborhood. When you have seen men laid flat on the concrete by heavily armed drug soldiers, when your community is fed and housed by the blood that flows through the black market, when you see families starving and killing as the Earth grows upwards and breaks apart the forgotten squares of sidewalk that you call home, then you must settle for nothing less than brutal and unforgiving conquest.

Because that is the only means you have, at the very least, to even slightly unphuck the catastrophic state that your community has been pushed into.

You may see words, opinions, thoughts, and debates from reading these kinds of articles or reading these kinds of books.

All that I can see when I stare at this article is the soft clinking of gears in a machine fueled by cash money dollars.

Cool story bro

Idk brah, outsourcing has been a thing for a long time now. I work at a large company that has offices in India and we try to outsource as much of our work as we can to them... it isn't a magic button that provides the same work for 1/10 the price. In any case, I work for a company that is 100% in the office and it seriously sucks. I think a lot of talent will be leaving to join companies that offer hybrid schedules.

Hands down the best benefit is not spending 45-50 hours with your office mates. Amazing that you spend more time with a random person who happens to have the same career you do, than your family, friends, children, and spouse.


And lol at anachron beating around the bush acting superior and smarter than everyone ITT per usual. If you have something to say, say it, or just continue being a *******

Especially if you have an insecure boss that loves to micromanage and bully... I fuking hate being in my office (srs)

Ehh I know from experience the problem becomes a lot more manageable when remote

its a lot easier to avoid office bullies and *******s when you aren't forced to be around them all day

maybe not everybody works in a toxic environment like I do, but working remote is definitely a lot more enjoyable in these situations

imagine believing anything that the media puts out