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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption

One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises

One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises

Originally Posted By r32gojirra⏩

True the answer lies with the unions

This generation is literally too soft to understand what a picket line is though

Also in Australia you need to account for the fact that your hourly wage is additional to high quality “free” (taxpayer funded) healthcare and a range of other first-world benefits

So hilariously the actual minimum wage is much higher than the employee funded hourly dollar amount when comparing to americucks

Your economic awareness is about 0. You’re looking at everything on the surface without understanding the entire picture.

Cost of living is lower in America than Australia. Aussies get paid more because they are taxed more, and, higher pay means the government can tax more of your earnings.After all, the gubment needs a ton of money to rip people off with its extremely high cost of function.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...=United+States

One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises

One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises

One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption

Originally Posted By suave2000⏩

My god Karl Marx? LMAO you're deluded and insane cuckboy. Marx is one of the most influential human beings of the last centuries, that doesnt mean the me or anybody else "worships" him like a god. Don't project your CUCKOLD tendencies unto me. Unlike marx, you're a nobody mouthbreather loser piece of chit, you have the intellect and emotional maturity of a 15 year old angsty teenager.
Only a caricature like yourself would be so predictable and BASIC as to have quotes of both Hayek and Solzhenitsyn in his sig... lmao. Do you think about Hayek when you get cucked from the closet, CUCK ?

Quick question, how tall are you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_decline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse#By_absorption

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The closer we approach the uncertainty of life's ending the more we wish to trade all of the things we have acquired in exchange for all of the things we have lost: wealth for youth, knowledge for fresh curiosity, resignation for hope. We'd trade our wisdom for new experiences, but it is wisdom that will teach us that at the end of the road the only new experience is death.

Originally Posted By Kraken⏩

People who are using a backwards ideology won’t be convinced. Their brain has been wired to think in a way that is completely opposite of free market thinkers.You can give facts, examples, stories detailing the truth etc, but instead of listening, researching/studying the facts, they just talk at you.The replies are never rebuttals, they are random talking points that avoid the arguments you make.

I linked an article with specific examples of increases in the US minimum wage which did not create higher inflation and also a recent article about the failure of "wage push" inflation to appear in our current circumstance.

Originally Posted By Kraken⏩

Many of these individuals are socialists in their ideals and don’t even realize it.Taking the power away from the consumer and business owner and putting the power all in the hands of labor is a Marxist ideal,but we see it so frequently. On top of that,people like Katya wants to use government to fix all of the economic issueswith ideas that have been proven to lead to bad outcomes.

At no point in this conversation have I advocated for "putting the power all in the hands of labor".

What I have said is that labor should be allowed to use the exact same weapons as capital and government use. You are the one who seems to believe arming labor to fight for their own interests against capital and government is the equivalent of Marxism.

I also haven't said anything about "using government to fix all of the economic issues". IMO government should be acting as a referee to maintain a fair state of play and should represent human interests that are unrelated to profit seeking.

Originally Posted By RW2⏩

I’m no economist, but what are your thoughts on this quote?

“Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”

— Thomas Sowell

It’s a much more compelling argument to me because it strays from demonizing business owners or low skilled workers, and leaves the emotions out of the equation.

I like Thomas Sowell. Serious.

But I don't believe that the possibility of reduced total employment is a compelling enough reason to keep wages for all workers anchored by a minimum wage that isn't adjusting with inflation.

The CBO analyzed the effect of increasing the minimum wage to estimate job loss and poverty. They did find some job loss would occur, but they also found that a lot of poverty would be alleviated. This was done in 2019 so the exact calculation have probably changed. Still the poverty reduction looks like a fair trade off to me.

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/201...umWage2019.pdf

• In an average week in 2025, the $15 option would boost the wages of 17 million workers who would otherwise earn less than $15 per hour. Another 10 million workers otherwise earning slightly more than $15 per hour might see their wages rise as well. But 1.3 million other workers would become jobless, according to CBO’s median estimate. There is a two thirds chance that the change in employment would be between about zero and a decrease of 3.7 million workers. The number of people with annual income below the poverty threshold in 2025 would fall by 1.3 million.

• The $12 option would have smaller effects. In an average week in 2025, it would increase wages for 5 million workers who would otherwise earn less than $12 per hour. Another 6 million workers otherwise earning slightly more than $12 per hour might see their wages rise as well. But the option would cause 0.3 million other workers to be jobless. There is a two-thirds chance that the change in employment would be between about zero and a decrease of 0.8 million workers. The number of people with annual income below the poverty threshold in 2025 would fall by 0.4 million.

• The $10 option would have still smaller effects. It would raise wages for 1.5 million workers who would otherwise earn less than $10 per hour. Another 2 million workers who would otherwise earn slightly more than $10 per hour might see their wages rise as well. The option would have little effect on employment in an average week in 2025. There is a two thirds chance that the change in employment would be between about zero and a decrease of 0.1 million workers. This option would have negligible effects on the number of people in poverty.

For a minimum wage of $15 their median job loss number came in at 1.3 million BUT with 1.3 million people being lifted above the poverty threshold.

^^^
So we could have fewer people working and at the same time have fewer people receiving support from taxpayer funded government benefits.

Meanwhile some number of people who are already earning a wage near $15 could see raises and IMO over time many jobs in the broad center of the wage scale will probably see wage increases, the exceptions being jobs that can be automated or outsourced.

Originally Posted By cavillac⏩

Katya, I love your posts. Thanks for the effort you put in

Originally Posted By Kraken⏩

That’s the argument I’ve been making in this entire thread.

Katya- But if people had more money, their quality of life would improve and there would be more economic activity.

Reality- Min wage laws increase poverty.

People based their conclusions on a abstract fantasy of what they believe is the truth. It’s not founded on any facts, only what they THINK happens, instead of finding out what ACTUALLY happens. Her entire economic belief system is an abstraction. Srs

This is you projecting your own bias. I understand that your bias is founded in the study of economics. I would say that theory doesn't always describe reality.

Originally Posted By RIKTER⏩

Except that doesn't work while having an open border with a 3rd world country coupled with politicians wanting to allow nearly unlimited high skilled immigration while subsidizing multi billion dollar corporations with the promise of green cards(hundreds of millions would work for free to obtain one)

That said, I don't disagree in theory, but we don't live in that reality. Its just outdated nonsensical thinking and more importantly eliminates any party running on that platform from ever winning elections.

But yeah, if one wants full blown communism to prevail, then by all means run on that platform.

PS.. less than 2% of workers make fed min wage and over half are under 25, so the fed minimal at least, is actually a non issue.

Already covered ITT, but while only 2% may be paid the current minimum wage roughly a third of workers earn less than $15 per hour.

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One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises

Originally Posted By Kay4Kool⏩

Sound money and the abolition of interest > min wage increases

you're doing nothing w/ a min wage increase

Hey I would rather have sound money and an end to usury too.

And I understand the desire to have a smaller government, or no federal government.

Can I get a big winning lotto ticket while we are dreaming here?

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