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Forum » Messi cements his GOAT status, wins WC for his country
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Thread: Messi cements his GOAT status, wins WC for his country

post 1673086853 12-18-2022, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted By TokenV⏩
it's always brought up in these kind of discussion but it's not Pele's fault football wasn't as professional as it is today

imagine people chitting on Messi in 2060 since he "was playing against bums"....

where do you draw the line?
That chit is just used to hype the current thing. Look how many sports there are where the "GOAT" is considered a currently active player. It's bizarre.
post 1673086903 12-18-2022, 12:33 PM
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Never been a big fan of Messi, but got to give it to him he showed up and deffo has to be number 1 now.
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post 1673086933 12-18-2022, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted By TokenV⏩
not really sure why this is a response to my post?



but what makes it so clear cut the level was so much worse when Pele was playing?

don't forget Pele himself also didn't have the means available every player has today so it levels out imo

what is essentialy so different in your opinion compared to 50 years ago?

also, he won the WC the last time in 1970, it's not like he was playing in the beginning of the century or something when the game just started expanding and nobody knew what the fuk they were doing
This, I don't think it's fair to compare people of different eras. Yeah, the players of today are a lot better but so would Pele if he had modern training techniques and facilities available to him.
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post 1673087083 12-18-2022, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted By TokenV⏩
not really sure why this is a response to my post?



but what makes it so clear cut the level was so much worse when Pele was playing?

don't forget Pele himself also didn't have the means available every player has today so it levels out imo

what is essentialy so different in your opinion compared to 50 years ago?

also, he won the WC the last time in 1970, it's not like he was playing in the beginning of the century or something when the game just started expanding and nobody knew what the fuk they were doing
The game has evolved technically a lot more since then, even small things like nutrition and recovery factors there's been improvements, overall the quality from players is better, how many other stars can you name other than Pele from back then? compared to 20-30 years ago? Even by Maradonas time there was a noticeable difference from Peles era, IMO Marad. has a bigger case as GOAT than Pele.
post 1673087343 12-18-2022, 12:42 PM
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Yeah this World Cup win (+ a final in 2014) and MVP of the tournament puts him above CR7. They were neck-to-neck before with each having an advantage in different areas, but now it's been put to rest. World Cup trophy is the cream of the crop achievement in every player's career, and there's nothing Ronaldo can do now to match it.

The past 2 years have been really clutch for Messi. Copa win, World Cup win, and another Balon d'Or (debatable but still) added to his collection. Meanwhile CR7 hasn't won a single trophy at any level and got benched.

CR7 should give up on his GOAT ambitions after this one and enjoy the 200-million contract retirement at Saudi Arabia. It's over.
post 1673087433 12-18-2022, 12:44 PM
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What I saw there a few minutes ago was Messi carrying his team on his back.
Everything I post is trash.
post 1673087553 12-18-2022, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By DASBUNKER⏩
The game has evolved technically a lot more since then, even small things like nutrition and recovery factors there's been improvements, overall the quality from players is better, how many other stars can you name other than Pele from back then? compared to 20-30 years ago? Even by Maradonas time there was a noticeable difference from Peles era, IMO Marad. has a bigger case as GOAT than Pele.
When people are discussing the GOAT they're comparing like for like. Obviously someone from 2022 with the best coaching, nutrition, and recovery can beat a player from the 1960's natural talent being the same but that doesn't mean they're better.

It's like saying that people from 2022 are more intelligent than people from 1022 because we have more information available to us, and thus are more knowledgeable today.
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post 1673087603 12-18-2022, 12:47 PM
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CR7 couldnt win with those cats, arguably Argentinas level as team has always mostly been better than Portugal

but also I think it's easier for 1 player to carry a soccer team than say murican football, basketball or others.
post 1673087663 12-18-2022, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted By TokenV⏩
it's always brought up in these kind of discussion but it's not Pele's fault football wasn't as professional as it is today

imagine people chitting on Messi in 2060 since he "was playing against bums"....

where do you draw the line?
Not the same when the organization is still developing. Those dudes back then had other full time jobs. Pele wasnt competing against elite pro athletes playing in multi billion dollar clubs.

But If football is as different by 2060 and messi looks primitive then too then yes, he no longer will be goat but right now he is.
post 1673087873 12-18-2022, 12:53 PM
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Even without this WC trophy Messi would be the GOAT, there is really no comparison. Yes, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and CR7 are all top 5 players of all time but Messi has been doing it for 15+ years. He is the best creator and dribbler ever seen and one of the best finishers as well. Truly remarkable. Also i am a huge Man United fan so not biased as Messi has punished United in 2 CL finals
post 1673087933 12-18-2022, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted By kingmanaverage⏩
When people are discussing the GOAT they're comparing like for like. Obviously someone from 2022 with the best coaching, nutrition, and recovery can beat a player from the 1960's natural talent being the same but that doesn't mean they're better.

It's like saying that people from 2022 are more intelligent than people from 1022 because we have more information available to us, and thus are more knowledgeable today.
Seems like this Pele logic is based on a lot of "what ifs", for all we know if Pele was placed in todays era he could've been a very good player... but as big as he was back then? maybe.. maybe not.
post 1673089333 12-18-2022, 01:27 PM
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Funny that In this case the whitest team won, in general black athletes dominate the sports field but now France was 100% black and lost against a 100% white team.

The supremacist msicers will have a field day with this result
post 1673089483 12-18-2022, 01:30 PM
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Ronaldo cocksuckers in shambles. The goat debateis over
I'll globe you

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post 1673089493 12-18-2022, 01:30 PM
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He's the goat, I can't even understand why people are trying to compare him to Ronald 7. The dude is 1000 miles ahead.
post 1673089873 12-18-2022, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
Funny that In this case the whitest team won, in general black athletes dominate the sports field but now France was 100% black and lost against a 100% white team.

The supremacist msicers will have a field day with this result
why are you always talking about race cuck
post 1673090053 12-18-2022, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
Funny that In this case the whitest team won, in general black athletes dominate the sports field but now France was 100% black and lost against a 100% white team.

The supremacist msicers will have a field day with this result
what are you talking about, football has always been white dominated

don't even understand why this is a thing lmfao
++
post 1673090543 12-18-2022, 01:47 PM
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the goat unquestioned
post 1673090783 12-18-2022, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By jimbob007⏩
Better than Pele? I think not.
Pele is overrated. Played against farmers and cab drivers. It's also been said over 300 of his goals came from friendlies. They counted goals scored in friendly matches back then
post 1673090883 12-18-2022, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted By CanardMedic⏩
He's the goat, I can't even understand why people are trying to compare him to Ronald 7. The dude is 1000 miles ahead.
Because they're in denial. Or they have autism or both
post 1673091483 12-18-2022, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By TokenV⏩
what are you talking about, football has always been white dominated

don't even understand why this is a thing lmfao
It's the misc. Everything is about race.
post 1673091853 12-18-2022, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Snootz⏩
Yeah i had ROnaldo over him before this

Can't deny Messi leapfrogged with the win
Same here .. Ronaldo vs Messi debates were always great and I'll miss em. Messi is the GOAT, even if Ronaldo is my favorite player

Hell of a match
post 1673092113 12-18-2022, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By TokenV⏩
what are you talking about, football has always been white dominated

don't even understand why this is a thing lmfao
France was 100 % black tho
post 1673092503 12-18-2022, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted By DASBUNKER⏩
Seems like this Pele logic is based on a lot of "what ifs", for all we know if Pele was placed in todays era he could've been a very good player... but as big as he was back then? maybe.. maybe not.
Any type of GOAT debate is based on what ifs. Short of using a time machine to bring the best of every era at their peak to the modern day, all we can do is speculate
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post 1673092933 12-18-2022, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Snootz⏩
Yeah i had ROnaldo over him before this

Can't deny Messi leapfrogged with the win
Originally Posted By TrueTruth⏩
Yeah this World Cup win (+ a final in 2014) and MVP of the tournament puts him above CR7. They were neck-to-neck before with each having an advantage in different areas, but now it's been put to rest. World Cup trophy is the cream of the crop achievement in every player's career, and there's nothing Ronaldo can do now to match it.

The past 2 years have been really clutch for Messi. Copa win, World Cup win, and another Balon d'Or (debatable but still) added to his collection. Meanwhile CR7 hasn't won a single trophy at any level and got benched.

CR7 should give up on his GOAT ambitions after this one and enjoy the 200-million contract retirement at Saudi Arabia.It's over.
lettuce be real tea, to those who know football it never really started

still Ronaldo has had an insane career that deserves every praise he gets
post 1673093093 12-18-2022, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By kingmanaverage⏩
When people are discussing the GOAT they're comparing like for like. Obviously someone from 2022 with the best coaching, nutrition, and recovery can beat a player from the 1960's natural talent being the same but that doesn't mean they're better.

It's like saying that people from 2022 are more intelligent than people from 1022 because we have more information available to us, and thus are more knowledgeable today.
i CAN say Messi is better than Pele. Its a direct comparison. Yes Pele had less available to him but thats exactly what makes him less of a player than Messi.

If Pele was put on a modern team with modern access would he be able to match or pass Messi? I mean maybe but thats impossible to know.
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post 1673093173 12-18-2022, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
France was 100 % black tho
more like 50-60%
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post 1673093733 12-18-2022, 03:00 PM
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none of you saw Pele, he played when players had No protection and scored 2 goals to win a WC final at the age of 17 year and won 3 WCs ....he is the ultimate player

watch and learnhttps://youtu.be/DnHqVfrJZg8
post 1673095013 12-18-2022, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted By suave2000⏩
France was 100 % black tho
Except it wasn't
post 1673095183 12-18-2022, 03:28 PM
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Tbf if the actual white French players were better soccer players they'd be the ones on the team instead of the LA Rams
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post 1673095833 12-18-2022, 03:40 PM
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First game I’ve seen in about 16 years and that went to penalties too. This is supposed to be one of the best finals ever yet I found it boring for the first 80 mins. Not to mention the players flopping around and pretending to be hurt.
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