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Forum » Bernie Madoff - aware me
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Thread: Bernie Madoff - aware me

post 1675752523 01-24-2023, 05:09 PM
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Bernie Madoff - aware me

I'm doing a deep dive into the B. Madoff story.

Here's a question for anyone who has an understanding of the BM situation: They had the ponzi operation going on the 17th floor. What were employees doing on the 19th floor, the "legitimate" business, where the majority of the employees worked including his sons? Bernie said not one single legit trade was made. What were those people doing?
post 1675753003 01-24-2023, 05:17 PM
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There was no legit business, ever. It was all scam. Sons were mostly just MOGGING around NYC, claim they had no clue LMAO. "Geez dad, we're rich as fukk, where does the money come from? I dunno, who cares?!?"

The sons were criminally cleared, but imagine being paid millions in bonuses constantly as finance bros and somehow not know it was a giant ponzi.

No chance. Mark and Andrew were GIGA connected to the elite world and were protected.
post 1675753013 01-24-2023, 05:17 PM
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he lost some peoples money and had a bad day or two
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post 1675753343 01-24-2023, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
There was no legit business, ever. It was all scam. Sons were mostly just MOGGING around NYC, claim they had no clue LMAO. "Geez dad, we're rich as fukk, where does the money come from? I dunno, who cares?!?"

The sons were criminally cleared, but imagine being paid millions in bonuses constantly as finance bros and somehow not know it was a giant ponzi.

No chance. Mark and Andrew were GIGA connected to the elite world and were protected.
Yeah like one of the investors put it, the entire thing is like a Shakespearean play. Both sons died, Bernie died, and the wife is all alone and poor. But I can't get over how the people in the legit business didn't wonder where the money is coming from when not a single trade was made.

I think the sons did not know the details, suspected something fishy but couldn't walk away from it. They were doomed just by being his sons because even if they had walked away, every penny Bernie made and every asset got clawed back so any gifts from him to the sons would have been included. They even took Ruth's underwear.
post 1675753473 01-24-2023, 05:27 PM
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Its all a big ponzi scheme, even the legit parts. So its really hard to tell what is happening. I worked for a large financial company for a long time that got shut down by SEC for 10 years recently.
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post 1675753503 01-24-2023, 05:27 PM
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Legitimate trades were being made, it just that they sucked at picking stocks.

That's why he started the Ponzi to show he could still beat the index funds.

The sons had to have known, but I imagine it was hard for the prosecution to prove.
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post 1675753543 01-24-2023, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
Yeah like one of the investors put it, the entire thing is like a Shakespearean play. Both sons died, Bernie died, and the wife is all alone and poor. But I can't get over how the people in the legit business didn't wonder where the money is coming from when not a single trade was made.

I think the sons did not know the details, suspected something fishy but couldn't walk away from it. They were doomed just by being his sons because even if they had walked away, every penny Bernie made and every asset got clawed back so any gifts from him to the sons would have been included. They even took Ruth's underwear.
This is wrong.

The sons were one of the main reasons Bernie was convicted. They testified against there father..

Mark David Madoff (/ˈmeɪdɔːf/ MAY-doff;[1] March 11, 1964 – December 11, 2010) was an American financier, best known for his role in exposing the multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme committed by his father, Bernie Madoff.[2][3]


He then later hung himself..
post 1675753673 01-24-2023, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
I think the sons did not know the details, suspected something fishy but couldn't walk away from it.
How could they not? Sons weren't dumb tradies who thought they won the lottery. They knew how the game worked.
post 1675753683 01-24-2023, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted By desslok⏩
Its all a big ponzi scheme, even the legit parts. So its really hard to tell what is happening. I worked for a large financial company for a long time that got shut down by SEC for 10 years recently.
Unreal that it went on as long as it did. People don't understand finance or money, so they don't ask questions. People are incredibly dumb. I'm sorry your company got shut down.
post 1675753763 01-24-2023, 05:31 PM
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Jew fall man.
post 1675753873 01-24-2023, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted By CockHorse⏩
This is wrong.

The sons were one of the main reasons Bernie was convicted. They testified against there father..

Mark David Madoff (/ˈmeɪdɔːf/ MAY-doff;[1] March 11, 1964 – December 11, 2010) was an American financier, best known for his role in exposing the multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme committed by his father, Bernie Madoff.[2][3]


He then later hung himself..
What's wrong about what I wrote?

The sons did not take the stand, and they did not testify. They turned him in when he was writing bonuses right before he knew the hammer was about to go down because they knew he was in the act of writing those bonuses with what cash was left. Their lawyer they went to told them there is a crime in progress with those bonuses and they must turn the dad in or be held liable. Nobody took the stand and there was not a trial since Bernie pled guilty to everything.
post 1675754093 01-24-2023, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
Unreal that it went on as long as it did. People don't understand finance or money, so they don't ask questions. People are incredibly dumb. I'm sorry your company got shut down.
It's greed more than anything else. Look how many super sharp people signed off on Theranos without even verifying that the machine worked lol. The desire to believe, so they could all get rich, overpowered every other brain cell.

Remember when that miscer used the misc to run a pump and dump scam? I posted 10x in every thread that it was a low level scam, but a bunch of miscers still bought in. Then one day it tanked to 0 and pump and dump brah disappeared. Very simple stuff.
post 1675754113 01-24-2023, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted By ErnieMccracken⏩
How could they not? Sons weren't dumb tradies who thought they won the lottery. They knew how the game worked.
It's hard to tell how much they knew. I agree they had to know something was up, but I'd think at least one of them would have walked away once they realized it was a ponzi scheme since they all eventually fail.
post 1675754553 01-24-2023, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted By LiftBigEatBig⏩
Legitimate trades were being made, it just that they sucked at picking stocks.

That's why he started the Ponzi to show he could still beat the index funds.

The sons had to have known, but I imagine it was hard for the prosecution to prove.
They had stopped making trades several years prior to Bernie's arrest. My question is how an office full of people receiving big salaries and bonuses didn't inquire about where the income was coming from, because THEY weren't trading... and nobody told them what was going on within the office on the 17th floor. So, maybe they assumed that's where the trading happened but everyone knew it was a bunch of high school graduates with no college education on that floor. Why would they be doing the trading?
post 1675754703 01-24-2023, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
Unreal that it went on as long as it did. People don't understand finance or money, so they don't ask questions. People are incredibly dumb. I'm sorry your company got shut down.
Well the stock market goes up and down. And an index fund can have dozens or hundreds of individual stocks. Rich people aren’t going to even look at what stocks are in each fund, let alone all of those stocks performance day by day. They just trust the PMs, thats what they are paying them to do. So if their portfolio loses value and they ask why -its expected, part of the risk.

Here is the kicker, the traders get paid per trade. They trade a stock that goes up, they get paid, stock goes down and they trade it -they get paid. So many other transaction fees etc that its impossible for the average Joe to know where this money is going. If they can scrape a couple percent off of billions of dollars no one would know.
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post 1675754973 01-24-2023, 05:49 PM
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What I want to know is who was creating these fake statement of returns for the investors? Old man Bernie wasn't editing the documents, so there had to be people he told to change numbers (or create entirely fake statements), how did they not know they were doing something highly criminal?
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post 1675755253 01-24-2023, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted By desslok⏩
Well the stock market goes up and down. And an index fund can have dozens or hundreds of individual stocks. Rich people aren’t going to even look at what stocks are in each fund, let alone all of those stocks performance day by day. They just trust the PMs, thats what they are paying them to do. So if their portfolio loses value and they ask why -its expected, part of the risk.

Here is the kicker, the traders get paid per trade. They trade a stock that goes up, they get paid, stock goes down and they trade it -they get paid. So many other transaction fees etc that its impossible for the average Joe to know where this money is going. If they can scrape a couple percent off of billions of dollars no one would know.
Yeah, in this case Bernie's clients were consistently getting double digit returns when the market was down and nobody was coming close to that. No actual trades were being made, they would make up fake statements and send them out once a quarter. They lied about the trades faking buying stocks using historical data. The high school graduates were generating them.

Bernie would pretend like only an elite group of people were allowed to buy into his fund, so he had people begging to be in it. He'd take the new money and use it for any clients requesting withdrawls. Then 2008 hit and too many clients began asking for withdrawls and the fund found itself down to the last 300 million when Bernie knew the gig was up and began trying to write bonus checks to at least help some people before getting raided. His sons said don't do it...hold onto the cash and that's when Bernie came clean to them. Then the sons went to the lawyer to save themselves and he said turn their dad in.
post 1675755393 01-24-2023, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted By P51⏩
What I want to know is who was creating these fake statement of returns for the investors? Old man Bernie wasn't editing the documents, so there had to be people he told to change numbers (or create entirely fake statements), how did they not know they were doing something highly criminal?
A group of shady high school graduates that he trusted all worked on the 17th floor where nobody else was allowed. They created these statements on dot matrix printers, using historical market information, saying a buy happened when a stock was down and a sale happened when it was up. Very tedious, smoke and mirrors. Nothing online only paper.

By high school graduates I don't mean young people, but people with no college education that Bernie trusted would keep their mouths shut and have no scruples.
post 1675755653 01-24-2023, 05:58 PM
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The 19th floor was a legit business. They were market makers.
The 17th floor was the ponzi.
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post 1675755713 01-24-2023, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By TDR24⏩
The 19th floor was a legit business. They were market makers.
The 17th floor was the ponzi.
Okay thanks.. What's a market maker and how does it generate income?
post 1675755753 01-24-2023, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
People are incredibly dumb.
Many are. It's so easy to sucker people out of their money, across almost every social strata except one.

Source: NYC.
post 1675755763 01-24-2023, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
By high school graduates I don't mean young people, but people with no college education that Bernie trusted would keep their mouths shut and have no scruples.
I assume they were paid well, and let's be real tea, wall st is FULL of criminals doing shady financial chit every single day. They probably thought it was standard operating procedure.
post 1675755773 01-24-2023, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
A group of shady high school graduates that he trusted all worked on the 17th floor where nobody else was allowed. They created these statements on dot matrix printers, using historical market information, saying a buy happened when a stock was down and a sale happened when it was up. Very tedious, smoke and mirrors. Nothing online only paper.

By high school graduates I don't mean young people, but people with no college education that Bernie trusted would keep their mouths shut and have no scruples.
Really? Where you read that at?
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post 1675755923 01-24-2023, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted By P51⏩
Really? Where you read that at?
I just watched a really good documentary on B. Madoff.
post 1675757033 01-24-2023, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
Okay thanks.. What's a market maker and how does it generate income?
In a nutshell they are a middle man between buyers and sellers. They keep the market liquid by having shares you want immediately available. They make money by adding their cost on to the bid, which creates the asking price that you pay.

There’s probably some stock bros that can answer that better than me though.
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post 1675757693 01-24-2023, 06:30 PM
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He had a successful business before he started the scam I think.

The scam was a fund he invested in and made up returns of.
post 1675758143 01-24-2023, 06:41 PM
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He madeoff with some money
See you tomorrow
post 1675758903 01-24-2023, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
I just watched a really good documentary on B. Madoff.
I saw 2 of them - a tv series and movie.

The Wizard of Lies - movie on HBO with Robert Deniro

Madoff (series) with Richard Dreyfuss



Did you see the new Netflix documentary? I haven't seen that one yet.
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post 1675759053 01-24-2023, 06:56 PM
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Early life
Madoff was born on April 29, 1938, in Queens, New York City, to Sylvia (Muntner) and Ralph Madoff, who was a plumber and stockbroker.[34][31][35][36] His family was Jewish.
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