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Forum ยป Unconditional cash transfers reduce homelessness
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Thread: Unconditional cash transfers reduce homelessness

post 1689226643 08-30-2023, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
This is going to be one of the worst examples of academia collision with reality BS studies I've ever seen.


The biggest experiment in modern history- Covid weekly handouts - proved the concept of any form of universal basic income -and money hand out -as a failed concept.

On the widest scale possible
9/10 Western countries already do this. It's dumb. Certainly not an easy argument

Tying it in to military is better.
post 1689226713 08-30-2023, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
Data and statistics can never be manipulated...... Ever.
What do you think they did? Are there some red flags in their reporting?
post 1689226783 08-30-2023, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By Jasonw1178⏩
Where is this money coming from?
The grants are listed in the paper
post 1689226843 08-30-2023, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Bushmaster⏩
Semantics again.

Point is give YOUR money to them and stop queefing about studies.
Studies are the currency of science
post 1689226933 08-30-2023, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
This is going to be one of the worst examples of academia collision with reality BS studies I've ever seen.


The biggest experiment in modern history- Covid weekly handouts - proved the concept of any form of universal basic income -and money hand out -as a failed concept.

On the widest scale possible
That wasn't exactly a controlled experiment tho.
post 1689226963 08-30-2023, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I dunno why posting a recent study would be considered preaching
How many were able to get an apartment when they had no proof of employment or sufficient funds for a down payment and a years worth of payments? I remember the hoops I had to jump through to lease my apartment out of college even when I had funds for the down payment and a six-figure contract. Without a lengthy income history, it made it challenging.

The 7,500 likely paid for food, clothing, etc. But at the end of 1 year, how many had any money left over?
post 1689227463 08-30-2023, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
That wasn't exactly a controlled experiment tho.
It was reality

We saw the actions of human behavior with handouts, and how they will default to compromising the least output work possible for the comfort of being taken care of.

Even willing to long-term willingness forgo 90% of their income (when the opportunity was available again, and they chose to not take it ) and trade for not working.
post 1689227543 08-30-2023, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted By rampagefc77⏩
How many were able to get an apartment when they had no proof of employment or sufficient funds for a down payment and a years worth of payments? I remember the hoops I had to jump through to lease my apartment out of college even when I had funds for the down payment and a six-figure contract. Without a lengthy income history, it made it challenging.

The 7,500 likely paid for food, clothing, etc. But at the end of 1 year, how many had any money left over?
"Fig. 1 shows the overall standardized treatment effects over 1 y, measured as the difference between cash and control participants controlling for baseline."
post 1689227663 08-30-2023, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
It was reality
Sure. But there are limitations in attempting to draw retrospective inference from observational data with no consideration of confounding variables. That's why experiments are designed and conducted to address specific research questions.
post 1689227753 08-30-2023, 02:15 PM
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$7,500 dollars is going to do what?
post 1689227813 08-30-2023, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
It can be challenging to reconcile differences between popular narratives and data
Lmfao rekt
post 1689227853 08-30-2023, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
$7,500 dollars is going to do what?
Check out the paper
post 1689228083 08-30-2023, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
It was reality

We saw the actions of human behavior with handouts, and how they will default to compromising the least output work possible for the comfort of being taken care of.

Even willing to long-term willingness forgo 90% of their income (when the opportunity was available again, and they chose to not take it ) and trade for not working.
Didn't people across the country basically use their covid stimulus Trump bucks to pay down their debt? (and feed their kids... I believe child hunger plummeted due to the checks)
post 1689228133 08-30-2023, 02:21 PM
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99.99% of that money will go towards booze and whatever drugs they happen to be addicted to which by the way...is the catalyst behind why they're homeless to begin with...that's what is referred to as enabler culture and no different than stuffing pies down the face of a morbidly obese individual.
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post 1689228143 08-30-2023, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
I'm sure an alcoholic won't spend money given to them on booze, same with hypes......

And if you believe in what you posted, then why aren't you giving them your money?
It's like these people dont understand the human factor. Yes, in theory, giving money to anyone homeless would spend it on getting their life together and all would be great.

Even so, that's a burden to other hard working folks.
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post 1689228213 08-30-2023, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Didn't people across the country basically use their covid stimulus Trump bucks to pay down their debt? (and feed their kids... I believe child hunger plummeted due to the checks)
They also use it to not return to the workforce

Which is why it took almost 3 years to return to pre Covid percent of population employed

And the main cause for inflation- that also exacerbated worldwide inflation.
post 1689228313 08-30-2023, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted By BullittEV⏩
It's like these people dont understand the human factor. Yes, in theory, giving money to anyone homeless would spend it on getting their life together and all would be great.

Even so, that's a burden to other hard working folks.
Is that burden more or less by helping the homeless?

By that I mean which is a bigger burden.. helping the homeless and getting results or not helping and dealing with consequences?
post 1689228633 08-30-2023, 02:30 PM
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#48
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Is that burden more or less by helping the homeless?

By that I mean which is a bigger burden.. helping the homeless and getting results or not helping and dealing with consequences?
Agreed 100%..however, I don't feel the ends justify the means (pertaining to said topic of giving them money). Not going to pretend I have a better solution but as my earlier post states..it would result in further enabling their unfortunate addiction issues and def. would not solve the problem.
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post 1689228683 08-30-2023, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By gachase21⏩
They also use it to not return to the workforce

Which is why it took almost 3 years to return to pre Covid percent of population employed

And the main cause for inflation- that also exacerbated worldwide inflation.
Well employers were basically outed for lying to their employees when they said they couldn't work from home. Covid proved it was possible. It also exposed the over-paid middle management as do nothing useless dead salary employees. So I'm not surprised employers are forcing their actual workers to come back.

Inflation happened because the entire planet tried to open back up at once.. with consumers with less debt to their names.. combined with everyone ready to spend due to being cooped up for the previous year and half. And yet at the time diesel fuel was blamed for inflation..
post 1689228803 08-30-2023, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Irezumi⏩
Agreed 100%..however, I don't feel the ends justify the means (pertaining to said topic of giving them money). Not going to pretend I have a better solution but as my earlier post states..it would result in further enabling their unfortunate addiction issues and def. would not solve the problem.
Plenty of government work from law enforcement or military they can do with minimal clearance. Give them a little of this for the NEETbux.
post 1689228853 08-30-2023, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Is that burden more or less by helping the homeless?

By that I mean which is a bigger burden.. helping the homeless and getting results or not helping and dealing with consequences?
Dude, why dont you read my posts. Of course helping the homeless and getting resultswould be great, as I said in my first sentence.

That's the entire point, I dont trust the majority of these people to want to even get the results. History tells us throwing money at the situation rarely work, example: California.
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post 1689228923 08-30-2023, 02:35 PM
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Sorry, but if you read the article they specifically said that the subjects had no addiction or mental health issues. So yes, if you give the 10% of homeless who aren't that a way to get ahead, they may use the money wisely. The problem is you can't hand it out to those people and not the others.

If they had handed $7500 to a bunch of addicts and mentally ill, it would have been gone in a week and probably most of them would have died from ODs.
post 1689229093 08-30-2023, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By DomMJr⏩
Plenty of government work from law enforcement or military they can do with minimal clearance. Give them a little of this for the NEETbux.
Im not sure what your stance is on having mentally ill addicts being anywhere near law enforcement or the military but that's going to be a hard no for me chief..although I do agree that offering them some sort of basic employment would be the first step in introducing them back into a civil society
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post 1689229123 08-30-2023, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By WoofieNugget⏩
Sorry, but if you read the article they specifically said that the subjects had no addiction or mental health issues. So yes, if you give the 10% of homeless who aren't that a way to get ahead, they may use the money wisely. The problem is you can't hand it out to those people and not the others.

If they had handed $7500 to a bunch of addicts and mentally ill, it would have been gone in a week and probably most of them would have died from ODs.
They also provided a workshop and coaching.
post 1689229373 08-30-2023, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted By Irezumi⏩
Im not sure what your stance is on having mentally ill addicts being anywhere near law enforcement or the military but that's going to be a hard no for me chief..although I do agree that offering them some sort of basic employment would be the first step in introducing them back into a civil society
Better than no one supervising them.

Where does this program come from?
post 1689229443 08-30-2023, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Didn't people across the country basically use their covid stimulus Trump bucks to pay down their debt? (and feed their kids... I believe child hunger plummeted due to the checks)
Oh yeah Patty, the stimulus checks were amazing...... And how are things present day?
post 1689229543 08-30-2023, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By NYPat⏩
Is that burden more or less by helping the homeless?

By that I mean which is a bigger burden.. helping the homeless and getting results or not helping and dealing with consequences?
How much money have you given?
post 1689229693 08-30-2023, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave22reborn⏩
How much money have you given?
I think it was grant funded rather than funded by foreign donations.
post 1689229733 08-30-2023, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted By J.L.C.⏩
I think it was grant funded rather than funded by foreign donations.
Okay, so much money have you given?
post 1689229803 08-30-2023, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Irezumi⏩
Im not sure what your stance is on having mentally ill addicts being anywhere near law enforcement or the military but that's going to be a hard no for me chief..although I do agree that offering them some sort of basic employment would be the first step in introducing them back into a civil society
I think forced military service would be a great idea. Definitely headaches for the people having to supervise them, but with a lot of these people if you have them on proper meds and give them structure, shelter and meals, they can actually start to get their stuff together. It's a better idea than forced rehab or mental institutions IMO.
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