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Forum » More General Categories » Misc. » You're UN-AMERICAN if you don't support McDonald's workers getting $15/hr
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Thread: You're UN-AMERICAN if you don't support McDonald's workers getting $15/hr

post 1440803831 05-07-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By colbski⏩
The fact of the matter is this..... people need to be accountable for themselves and their given hand. If McDonald's isn't adequate to help ill parents, keep the lights on etc... then they need to do more. Why settle for less? Why accept what was given to you and just say "that's life". It's a defeatist realm of thinking.
They also aren't even entitled to their job lol it is a privilege.

Guy above me gets it.
post 1440804731 05-07-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted By SlootFlute⏩
He was trying to generalize every fast food worker as being some lazy minority with 4 kids
HAHAHAHA!!!! No, I'm not but this is quite amusing to me.
:D
post 1440804841 05-07-2016, 06:34 PM
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In on weekly minimum wage wage thread complete with armchair economists

Nobody knows what the effect of increasing a minimum wage actually is, the big boys in the economics academia haven't even figured it out and the debate's been going for at least 40 years.

It would be nice to say definitively "no, if we increase minimum wage then people will be worse off" or "yes, increasing minimum wage will alleviate some inequality we find undesirable". Unfortunately, we cannot conclude either way.
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post 1440805251 05-07-2016, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
In on weekly minimum wage wage thread complete with armchair economists

Nobody knows what the effect of increasing a minimum wage actually is, the big boys in the economics academia haven't even figured it out and the debate's been going for at least 40 years.

It would be nice to say definitively "no, if we increase minimum wage then people will be worse off" or "yes, increasing minimum wage will alleviate some inequality we find undesirable". Unfortunately, we cannot conclude either way.
5'6" - 216lbs... I'm supposed to take advice on what's been proven or not proven to work from a fatfuk who cant figure out how to put down the spoon? Pretty sure it's been proven that you'll lose weight if you eat below your daily caloric needs for a prolonged period of time. Srs question plz respond.

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post 1440805291 05-07-2016, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By colbski⏩
The fact of the matter is this..... people need to be accountable for themselves and their given hand. If McDonald's isn't adequate to help ill parents, keep the lights on etc... then they need to do more. Understand there is restraint with the younger crowds but more often than not, you find people well beyond their teenage years working at fast food restaurants.

Why settle for less? Why accept what was given to you and just say "that's life". It's a defeatist realm of thinking.
Wait... So you're telling me that if I flip burgers for 8hrs a day, I should expect for my boss and/or the company I work at to take care of my family? Fast food workers can't expect to be able to raise a family for their wage - what they do isn't worth enough for the employer to give them that sort of a benefit. It's selfish of the worker to expect more from his company, i.e. McDonalds, than the value of his work gives the company.

Just because a person needs something, it doesn't mean they're entitled to charity. In a perfect world, companies would take care of employees 100%, but in reality, flipping burgers isn't valuable enough of a skill to expect $15/hr or whatever other benefits employees think they "deserve".
post 1440805311 05-07-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
5'6" - 216lbs... I supposed to take advice on what's been proven or not proven to work from a fatfuk who cant figure out how to put down the spoon? Srs question plz respond.
Ahh, the good ol' MISC ad hom has started.

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post 1440805351 05-07-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By ihavetomakeit⏩
I don't have a dog in the fight, but 99% of people keep ignoring this simple fact to destroy any argument... Prices have been going up EVERY year on most common products. The USA failed to account for inflation in wage increases which would be about a 10.50 minimum wage modern day. You're ALREADY paying more for everything but not getting paid more. Disband from your idiotic political parties and delusional views on economics from your little college courses and listen to the truth that I just stated. It all makes sense now.
expect if you go back through the years and compare the minimum wage to todays money, you will see that the buying power of your dollar goes up and down in huge amounts.

you cant tie it too how much bread you can buy with a dollar. it changes from year to year.


go onto the governments statistics website and look at minimum wages back in the 50s to the 60s

they go up and down in todays money.
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post 1440805451 05-07-2016, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By SlootFlute⏩
Yourjust ignorantly generalizing a group of people..

Every fast food worker isn't on welfare and spending their ebt on shoes..

What about the kids who work to help out their family because their parent fell ill and can't work?

What about the girl whose been dealt a bad hand in life and walks to work, just so she can keep the lights on??
Was actually surprised that your thread title included a grammatically correct "you're". You negated that with this post. Practice makes perfect, man.




Fast food jobs weren't meant to be careers. They were perfect jobs for people in high school and college, but people expected to live off of that wage for the rest of their life? No. They should not be getting $15/hr.

It seems that you're going off of the premise that things should be fair. Life is not fair. Call it heartless but I have no sympathy for those people. Most McDonalds workers **** up simple orders, too. They'll decide to put no cheese on your burger if you ask for extra cheese while still charging you for the extra. Want better pay? Get an education.

There are other jobs infinitely more deserving of $15/hour. Wanting fast food workers making that much would actually be more un-American.
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post 1440805541 05-07-2016, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted By BangBrahs⏩
Ahh, the good ol' MISC ad hom has started.
And what did you add to the discussion? All he said was I think we dont know what we may or may not know. And you just came in to act high and mighty.

Add to the discussion or GTFO with you ******* comments ffs.
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post 1440805701 05-07-2016, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
Wait... So you're telling me that if I flip burgers for 8hrs a day, I should expect for my boss and/or the company I work at to take care of my family? Fast food workers can't expect to be able to raise a family for their wage - what they do isn't worth enough for the employer to give them that sort of a benefit. It's selfish of the worker to expect more from his company, i.e. McDonalds, than the value of his work gives the company.

Just because a person needs something, it doesn't mean they're entitled to charity. In a perfect world, companies would take care of employees 100%, but in reality, flipping burgers isn't valuable enough of a skill to expect $15/hr or whatever other benefits employees think they "deserve".
Well... tell this to the people who are demanding $15.00 an hour.
:D
post 1440806201 05-07-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Which is why the current education system is absolute BS. I say this as a person with an eng degree (you kids call it STEM now?). Most people are incompetent af and make terrible engineers after university. Others that I've met throughout my career (tradesment, project managers, inspection, safety officials, other technical staff, etc.) who DONT have an engineer degree have actually been MORE knowledgeable than the people who wasted 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars getting a degree.

It's a shame, really.
Been saying this for a while. Paying for a college degree (unless at a TOP school like MIT or something) is just paying for the privilege for a recruiter to actually open your resume after the search algorithm sees there is a degree inside.
post 1440806231 05-07-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
In on weekly minimum wage wage thread complete with armchair economists

Nobody knows what the effect of increasing a minimum wage actually is, the big boys in the economics academia haven't even figured it out and the debate's been going for at least 40 years.

It would be nice to say definitively "no, if we increase minimum wage then people will be worse off" or "yes, increasing minimum wage will alleviate some inequality we find undesirable". Unfortunately, we cannot conclude either way.
It's still too early to make a definitive conclusion, but there was a huge spike in people that lost their jobs after the $15/hr was implemented in Seattle. I believe jobs went down and unemployment shot up, obviously.
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post 1440806581 05-07-2016, 06:46 PM
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In to lol @ pathetic fgts who think anyone is owed anything

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post 1440806601 05-07-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Mythenthefang⏩
In on weekly minimum wage wage thread complete witharmchair economists

Nobody knows what the effect of increasing a minimum wage actually is, the big boys in the economics academia haven't even figured it out and the debate's been going for at least 40 years.

It would be nice to say definitively "no, if we increase minimum wage then people will be worse off" or "yes, increasing minimum wage will alleviate some inequality we find undesirable". Unfortunately, we cannot conclude either way.
Stanford economics degree + MBA (plus an MD) guy reporting in...

Most studies on increases in minimum wage has been +/- in terms of their effect; the minimum wage increases in these studies have been small (10-20%). Most economists who are pro-minimum wage think the optimum min wage should be about 50% of the median wage (which is actually close to our current minimum wage). The hike up to $15 min wage would put us at a min wage that is close to 70% of the median wage. This is uncharted territory; that is, there are no good prior examples of a minimum wage hike this big. Economic theory says 'increased wage floor = decreased labor demand = increased unemployment'. Whether this is true in reality has yet to be seen. However, when something gets more expensive, people tend to buy less of it, all other things held equal. So if employees become dramatically more expensive, I would expect fewer of them to be hired/employed.
post 1440806741 05-07-2016, 06:48 PM
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minimum wage should always keep up with inflation & McDonalds should either pay their workers a fukking living wage or offer them benefits like healthcare so the American taxpayer doesnt have to foot the fukking bill when their employees inevitably sign up for WIC/food stamp
post 1440806911 05-07-2016, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Lightsout13⏩
Since McD's is one of the world's largest corporations with crazy revenue, why don't they give their employees a great benefits package like UPS does? UPS pays only $8.50/hr starting but they have great benefits.
Most Mcdonalds restaurants are franchised owned, not corporate owned. A single franchised owned Mcdonalds restaurant might not make enough to pay $15 an hour, in which case they would probably replace workers with kiosks like they're already doing now, or possibly increase prices to compensate.
post 1440806971 05-07-2016, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By colbski⏩
Well... tell this to the people who are demanding $15.00 an hour.
Reality sucks, doesn't it? It's not for the employer to take care of these people. They should turn to welfare or charity.
post 1440806981 05-07-2016, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
Stanford economics degree + MBA (plus an MD) guy reporting in...

Most studies on increases in minimum wage has been +/- in terms of their effect; the minimum wage increases in these studies have been small (10-20%). Most economists who are pro-minimum wage think the optimum min wage should be about 50% of the median wage (which is actually close to our current minimum wage). The hike up to $15 min wage would put us at a min wage that is close to 70% of the median wage. This is uncharted territory; that is, there are no good prior examples of a minimum wage hike this big. Economic theory says 'increased wage floor = decreased labor demand = increased unemployment'. Whether this is true in reality has yet to be seen. However, when something gets more expensive, people tend to buy less of it, all other things held equal. So if employees become dramatically more expensive, I would expect fewer of them to be hired/employed.
Median wages are too low.
post 1440807021 05-07-2016, 06:50 PM
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highs hookers don't deserve 15 dollars


high schoolers . if you work where high schoolers do you dint deserve 15
post 1440807061 05-07-2016, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By ezjax⏩
the system is the system.. i dont believe a degree in anything should get you a better job.. you can graduate with a CE Or CS degree and the kid writing code in his basement is better at it than you and deserves more money..

school is part of THEIR system so you can get THEIR jobs and become THEIR slaves..

pay the guy sweating over the grill 15 an hr.. putting money in the hands of someone likely to spend it as opposed to someone who will hoard it is always the right economic decision..

taking dollars out of the system is what perpetuates poverty
uwot?

I assume by the ignorant "hoarding money" statement you mean someone saves money. By saving (and, crucially, investing) money a person creates wealth and wealth generating assets, those assets are what make us all better off. That "hoarding money" which you claim perpetuates poverty is the source of your PC, your house, all your consumer goods, the source of every asset you use to do your job.

Source: economist, trying to explain a complicated concept on a bodybuilding forum. I honestly can't believe the ignorance of some people.

What perpetuates poverty isn't clear because poverty is a nebulous undefinable entity. Do you mean relative poverty, as exists in the US where timmy can't buy his schoolbooks but can buy 2000 calories (ish) a day of (pretty ****ty) food. Or are you referring to absolute poverty where timmy weighs in at 24 kgs at 10 years old with a distended stomach from malnutrition.
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post 1440807171 05-07-2016, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Which is why the current education system is absolute BS. I say this as a person with an eng degree (you kids call it STEM now?). Most people are incompetent af and make terrible engineers after university. Others that I've met throughout my career (tradesmen, project managers, inspection, safety officials, other technical staff, etc.) who DONT have an engineering degree have actually been MORE knowledgeable than the people who wasted 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars getting a degree.

It's a shame, really.
so youre telling me engineers fresh out of university are less experienced & knowledgeable compared to tradesmen/project managers who dont have degrees but have been in the industry for 10+ years?

wow im fukking surprised
post 1440807191 05-07-2016, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
Stanford economics degree + MBA (plus an MD) guy reporting in...

Most studies on increases in minimum wage has been +/- in terms of their effect; the minimum wage increases in these studies have been small (10-20%). Most economists who are pro-minimum wage think the optimum min wage should be about 50% of the median wage (which is actually close to our current minimum wage). The hike up to $15 min wage would put us at a min wage that is close to 70% of the median wage. This is uncharted territory; that is, there are no good prior examples of a minimum wage hike this big. Economic theory says 'increased wage floor = decreased labor demand = increased unemployment'. Whether this is true in reality has yet to be seen. However, when something gets more expensive, people tend to buy less of it, all other things held equal. So if employees become dramatically more expensive, I would expect fewer of them to be hired/employed.
Just to offer a counter to this approach to statistical analysis of wage increase %, consider this: wages rose proportionally to inflation throughout the 19th and most of the 20th century. Stagnation in rise of wage proportional to the inflation occurred starting in the 70's . This also coincided with the sharp drop in taxes. Federal taxes fell from highs of 70's to the 50's in that decade alone; we pay much less than that today. The sharp drop in taxes directly affected the earning power of paycheck to paycheck workers in the 70's and 80's. Now it's 30 years later and the chicks have come to roost.

^ this is not to say I disagree with you completely, but the whole picture is much more nuanced than most people bishin about wages or high taxes on ******** care to grasp.
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post 1440807241 05-07-2016, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Lightsout13⏩
Since McD's is one of the world's largest corporations with crazy revenue, why don't they give their employees a great benefits package like UPS does? UPS pays only $8.50/hr starting but they have great benefits.
Most restaurants are franchise owned and their margins are very very tight. Their profit is something like 5% or less, and their biggest expense is labor. A near-doubling of labor costs would put a lot of franchises out of business. They will either have to raise prices, automate, and/or lower production.
post 1440807481 05-07-2016, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted By kratosbrah⏩
so youre telling me engineers fresh out of university are less experienced & knowledgeable compared to tradesmen/project managers who dont have degrees but have been in the industry for 10+ years?

wow im fukking surprised
You live in Cali huh? Yea I'll take an electrician with 5 year of experience who's worked on two OSHPD projects over a kid out of uni ANY DAY. I could train that electrician to outperform 9/10 "electrical engineer"s you know, including ones with a license.

Edit: just to be clear, I've hired people with 10 year of experience, degrees AND a PE license (CA). I've also watched them get fired in 6 months for incompetence. Would take someone with less chitty experience but with the RIGHT ATTITUDE over a dipchit anyway. You spend more time trying to teach them how to not fuk up than you would training a new hire properly.
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post 1440807701 05-07-2016, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted By F23⏩
Most restaurants are franchise owned and their margins are very very tight. Their profit is something like 5% or less, and their biggest expense is labor. A near-doubling of labor costs would put a lot of franchises out of business. They will either have to raise prices, automate, and/or lower production.
too many idiots still think all McDonald's are owned by the same giant corporation.
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
You live in Cali huh? Yea I'll take an electrician with 5 year of experience who's worked on two OSHPD projects over a kid out of uni ANY DAY. I could train that electrician to outperform 9/10 "electrical engineer"s you know, including ones with a license.
i could train that electrical engineer fresh out of university to become the boss of that electrician in 5 years tho
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Originally Posted By PisseninMisc⏩
Just to offer a counter to this approach to statistical analysis of wage increase %, consider this: wages rose proportionally to inflation throughout the 19th and most of the 20th century. Stagnation in rise of wage proportional to the inflation occurred starting in the 70's . This also coincided with the sharp drop in taxes. Federal taxes fell from highs of 70's to the 50's in that decade alone; we much less than that today.

^ this is not to say I disagree with you completely, but the whole picture is much more nuanced than most people bishin about wages or high taxes on ******** care to grasp.
Per my economics professor on the topic who was president of the Society of American Economic History at the time (Gavin Wright), the stagnation in wages that began in the 70's is/was due to outsourcing and technological innovation... Basically production increased because of the ability to substitute labor for capital (with the corporations owning the capital). This makes most of the growth that comes from increased productivity to go to the owners of the capital rather than to the workers.
post 1440808011 05-07-2016, 06:57 PM
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I don't eat McDonald's, or any other fast food joint.
I loe e.
post 1440809111 05-07-2016, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted By kratosbrah⏩
i could train that electrical engineer fresh out of university to become the boss of that electrician in 5 years tho
Really? You should send me a resume.
Originally Posted By F23⏩
Per my economics professor on the topic who was president of the Society of American Economic History at the time (Gavin Wright), the stagnation in wages that began in the 70's is/was due to outsourcing and technological innovation... Basically production increased because of the ability to substitute labor for capital (with the corporations owning the capital). This makes most of the growth that comes from increased productivity to go to the owners of the capital rather than to the workers.
Let's assume I agree with your professor. He has explained the mechanism by which the growth is transferred to the owners of the capital.

We are talking about what is fair AND what is the most beneficial distribution of the wealth growth for the overall health of th economy.
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post 1440810091 05-07-2016, 07:13 PM
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The only effect of minimum wage is the increase of unemployment.



When the price of a product increase people use it less. Labor hand is a product: if you increase it's cost, companies are going to use less of it, increase prices or go bankrupt. The minimum wage should be 0.
If you are struggling making progress at the gym, check out this: http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=168759073
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