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Thread: end private education

post 1592878031 12-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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end private education

education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
post 1592880881 12-04-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
Depends on what you mean by education. Trade schools are a form of education, should they only be public also?
post 1592881041 12-04-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
Can you first give us a definition of the word "right"?
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post 1592881201 12-04-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
I'm sure they'd find some loopholes, but I like the sentiment you have here, if nothing else. Would love it to see some actor like Matt Damon who promotes public schools as being great (and send their kids to private schools) have to actually walk the walk.

Still, want to fix it? A good step would be abolishing the Dept of Education. Public schools have gotten exponentially worse as that dept has grown, also exponentially.
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post 1592881761 12-04-2019, 12:57 PM
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While a novel idea on paper, the very small percentage of American youth in private schools wouldn't change public school quality if you all of sudden put them there.

My ex-spouse is an administrator and long time teacher in the public school system. The #1 reason why a student fails or succeeds is directly proportional to parental involvement in their kids education. Far too many parents look at schools as cheap daycare. Whether they're worthless scumbags leeching off the system or two income households the results are largely the same.
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post 1592881831 12-04-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted By sy2502⏩
Can you first give us a definition of the word "right"?
right = something desired by the people and afforded to the people by the social contract of government. the military is a good example. the american people are afforded a military defense as a right of citizenship.

just swap "military defense" with those other things
post 1592881921 12-04-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By rise21⏩
Depends on what you mean by education. Trade schools are a form of education, should they only be public also?
good question. dunno. maybe there should be some exceptions? not sure!

do trade schools suffer the same problems as more traditional preschool, k-12, uni and grad schools?
post 1592882561 12-04-2019, 01:09 PM
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Funding is not going to just make public education better. Is Newark significantly better off after Zuckerberg donated all that money? The reason private schools provide better education is because they need to PROVE their value. When they don't, their applications drop and then their funding/revenue. If public schools have no accountability because they constantly keep getting funding, what will keep them improving? The case study has been done right in front of our eyes too. Public and private schools have existed for, we will call it, the same amount time. Which one provides a better education and why do you think that is the case? The response is money. Difference is one has to earn theirs and the other doesn't.
post 1592882841 12-04-2019, 01:13 PM
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Public schools are garbage. It isn't a money issue. Here we spend something ridiculous, tens of thousands of dollars per student, and 3 quarters of them can't do simple math or read. Public school is terrible.
post 1592884671 12-04-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
good question. dunno. maybe there should be some exceptions? not sure!

do trade schools suffer the same problems as more traditional preschool, k-12, uni and grad schools?
I can’t answer that question, my fancy book learning leaves me unqualified.
post 1592885031 12-04-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
It's my right to keep and bear arms. That doesn't mean the government is obligated to provide them for me. I don't think you have clear understanding of what rights are and what the government's role is.
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post 1592885161 12-04-2019, 01:42 PM
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but who was freedom of association?
post 1592885291 12-04-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By rise21⏩
Depends on what you mean by education. Trade schools are a form of education, should they only be public also?
in OP's utopia, your dad will be thrown in jail if he teaches you how to fish
post 1592885571 12-04-2019, 01:48 PM
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How very communist of you OP. Should private property be outlawed too?

The problem isn't lack of funding - it's the student's home life
post 1592885671 12-04-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted By chaunce54⏩
It's my right to keep and bear arms. That doesn't mean the government is obligated to provide them for me. I don't think you have clear understanding of what rights are and what the government's role is.
Rights are whatever the **** society chooses them to be and has a governance structure capable of enforcing, and it's as simple as that. Rights are meaningless outside of this context.

For example you have a right to legal representation, which imposes a duty on someone else (a lawyer in this case, provided by the government if you are poor). Would you however claim that we actually don't have a right to legal representation?
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post 1592885871 12-04-2019, 01:52 PM
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Op is ignorant,, just like in the healthcare thread. Everything is based off feels. Still hasn't read an economics 101 book on competition and supply and demand. He loves monopolies and high costs
post 1592886481 12-04-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
Rights are whatever the **** society chooses them to be and has a governance structure capable of enforcing, and it's as simple as that. Rights are meaningless outside of this context.

For example you have a right to legal representation, which imposes a duty on someone else (a lawyer in this case, provided by the government if you are poor). Would you however claim that we actually don't have a right to legal representation?
dangerous and despicable point of view

the whole point of the founding of the USA was to move away from this collectivist mindset
post 1592886791 12-04-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By cashinout⏩
dangerous and despicable point of view

the whole point of the founding of the USA was to move away from this collectivist mindset
http://volokh.com/2013/05/07/positiv...-libertarians/

I'd read this article to remind yourself of how little you actually understand about either rights as a concept or specific US legislature. Report back to me anytime
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post 1592887071 12-04-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
http://volokh.com/2013/05/07/positiv...-libertarians/

I'd read this article to remind yourself of how little you actually understand about either rights as a concept or specific US legislature. Report back to me anytime
I don't have to read chit

in American culture, rights are inherent and inalienable, not given by the government so take your commie UK statist BS to someone who cares
post 1592887351 12-04-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted By isingmodel⏩
http://volokh.com/2013/05/07/positiv...-libertarians/

I'd read this article to remind yourself of how little you actually understand about either rights as a concept or specific US legislature. Report back to me anytime
Everyone here understands rights. You should take your own advice and actually think things through.

My rights are God given, natural if you don't happen to believe in God. They aren't granted by anyone and they will be enforced by me if the government isn't there to secure them or tries to infringe on them.
post 1592887881 12-04-2019, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
right = something desired by the people and afforded to the people by the social contract of government. the military is a good example. the american people are afforded a military defense as a right of citizenship.

just swap "military defense" with those other things
If you have to ask for it, it's not a right. It may be a concession, a service, a gift... not a right.
So to rephrase your post, you really really really want education, military, police, roads and healthcare to be government monopoly. And your motivation for it is: rich phukers can send their kids to private schools while the rest of us has to send them to chitty public schools, so all schools should be public. That is all schools should be chitty? Sounds like a good plan OP I can tell you thought this one carefully.
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post 1592888231 12-04-2019, 02:26 PM
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I went to private school. Not the fancy schools you are thinking, but a small one. My parents worked really hard to send me because they didn't want me in public school.
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post 1592888461 12-04-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By cashinout⏩
I don't have to read chit

in American culture, rights are inherent and inalienable, not given by the government so take your commie UK statist BS to someone who cares
That's not actually how the numerous different forms of legal rights in US law or any law are grounded. It's not surprising for someone who doesn't understand US law to be confused here though so I'm not holding it against you, just hoping you'll try and grasp it better.
Originally Posted By Qong⏩
Everyone here understands rights. You should take your own advice and actually think things through.

My rights are God given, natural if you don't happen to believe in God. They aren't granted by anyone and they will be enforced by me if the government isn't there to secure them or tries to infringe on them.
Outside of the context of a society with rights and a governance structure to enforce them, you don't have a right to anything my friend.

If you are strong and well armed enough to protect your property, then good for you. If someone stronger and better armed than you hurts you and takes your property, then it's tough **** for you. There is no entity you can stand in front of to claim you had a right to that property and expect it to be delivered back to you. For all purposes, the property is now theirs. The concept of a right in such a context is meaningless air.

So as I said, rights are whatever society chooses them to be and is then capable of enforcing. Take the right to legal representation as an easy example that refutes your entire premise.
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post 1592889061 12-04-2019, 02:39 PM
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This thread had about as much thought put into it as Wincels.
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post 1592890871 12-04-2019, 03:05 PM
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Public or private...the real problem is indoctrination in these schools. The teachers can no longer leave their opinions out of it. Hire a liberal teacher and that's what they teach their students. Of course there are exceptions but it's far more likely than not likely anymore...
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post 1592891511 12-04-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
So you wanna hold down everyone successful because you're jealous of their success? Stereotypical lib logic. Sorry, private education isn't going anywhere. My kids will go to some of the best schools in the country while yours end up working at Starbucks with a liberal arts degree.



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post 1592891621 12-04-2019, 03:19 PM
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why so we can have more garbage inner city schools, and no kid gets ahead?

how can u have a right to education? how the fuk does that work?

education requires someone to teach u...what if nobody wanted to teach? would u enslave ppl and force them to teach? we bringin slavery back bro?

this was the danger of the civil rights act btw...ur essentially forcing ppl to work for ppl they don't want to work for...that ain't freedom bro

nobody should be forced to try to teach the spawn of gangbangers...period
post 1592891911 12-04-2019, 03:25 PM
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Sounds like a great way to raise taxes on the middle class. Why do you hate America?
post 1592892531 12-04-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By sandaltan⏩
education, like military, police, roads and healthcare, should be rights of citizenship, not privileges of the wealthy.

if you outlaw all private education, politicians would be forced to send their sh*tty kids to the same schools as everyone else

bet your ass theyd fund them and make sure theyre good in that case

in b4 maga brahs have "thoughts" on this
No thanks, socialism doesnt work
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post 1592893191 12-04-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By wincel⏩
why so we can have more garbage inner city schools, and no kid gets ahead?

how can u have a right to education? how the fuk does that work?

education requires someone to teach u...what if nobody wanted to teach? would u enslave ppl and force them to teach? we bringin slavery back bro?

this was the danger of the civil rights act btw...ur essentially forcing ppl to work for ppl they don't want to work for...that ain't freedom bro

nobody should be forced to try to teach the spawn of gangbangers...period
You can have a right to anything that society deems worthy of making a right and is capable of enforcing, simply put. As an easy example that I've already stated ITT, all of us have a right to legal representation regardless of how economically deprived a person might be.

Well legal representation requires another person's (or multiple peoples') time and labour and commitment. Yet it's a recognised right everywhere and I don't think anyone has any issue with that, it'd be an awful society where that wasn't the case.

So yeah the idea that rights are just a small handful of strictly negative concepts like the right to life or self defense or free speech, neither makes much sense in the abstract nor is how the law actually works.
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