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Forum » More General Categories » Religion and Politics » GOP unveils final $1.5T tax plan
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Thread: GOP unveils final $1.5T tax plan

post 1537682171 12-16-2017, 09:08 AM
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#61
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Man some of the prop taxes you guys pay is crazy. Mine are constitutionally capped at 1%.
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post 1537683121 12-16-2017, 09:24 AM
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#62
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Just some thoughts as a CPA for wealthy clients and their privately owned passthroughs.

I haven't ran the final numbers, but under the house and senate bills, most of my wealthy clients (5-60 million in income) actually receive little (1-2% reduction in tax) to no benefit and some are actually worse off. Crunching the numbers for me and people like me, we receive around a 4% cut.

My biggest beneficiary in this is an S-Corp that's family owned with around 1 billion in receipts. They will never pay state taxes every again at the corp level. I don't do their 1040s, but I imagine their tax will drop like a rock as well to current AMT levels.

Also btw those expiring deductions/credits in 2026 are 100% normal. There are credits that expire every year that get renewed for decades. You just never hear about them. Why? Because it gives congress a chance to evaluate them and decide should they be changed. It's not always a bad thing.
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post 1537683221 12-16-2017, 09:26 AM
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The expiration for the middle class is beyond ridiculous given thatI believethey don't expire for the higher brackets + corporations. Should make that permanent as giving the middle class more spending power is what boosts the economy; not a blanket cut for the wealthy/corporations. Cutting taxes on corporations would make sense if the loopholes are closed too; just simplify that across the board.
Originally Posted By wesleysh21⏩
I don’t think it was ever real. That’s why I kept saying “show me in the final bill.” I don’t think it ever really existed, much less made the final version of the legislation.
The graduate student part was 100% in the House bill. Really glad to see that was taken out.
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post 1537683291 12-16-2017, 09:28 AM
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Guess I am a bit confused, can I write my State tax off or not?
post 1537684011 12-16-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted By tng83⏩
Schumer needs to STFU
He's so fuking useless, I don't even have to know what he said about anything republicans do because I can guess it with 99% accuracy what it is: worn out democrat talking points, the sky is falling, this will hurt X group (that it's actually helping) and help Z group (that it either doesn't help or even hurts).
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post 1537684211 12-16-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
The expiration for the middle class is beyond ridiculous given thatI believethey don't expire for the higher brackets + corporations. Should make that permanent as giving the middle class more spending power is what boosts the economy; not a blanket cut for the wealthy/corporations. Cutting taxes on corporations would make sense if the loopholes are closed too; just simplify that across the board.



The graduate student part was 100% in the House bill. Really glad to see that was taken out.
While this is true that they don’t expire for the upper income people, expiration’s are super common in the tax world. Why? So things can be re-evaluated and changed. Before you claim it’s bad, this may be great and in 10 years the middle class may even have a larger cut. Happens all the time in the business tax code. Depreciation adjustments are made almost yearly when they expire based on the economy.
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post 1537684501 12-16-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
That's still deductible up to $10k. And the reason state and local taxes are typically high is because those areas have greater services or better schools or people just want to live there because good jobs are there. Disparaging areas of the country with high taxes and saying they are stupid for living in a high tax area really isn't a winning argument.
Always thought it was odd that Republicans try to own the insult of "elite" and play themselves as the treaded on common man, yet they commonly dive on grenades for billionaire donors and call us stupid or say we're useless because we don't grow crops or drive a tractor trailer.

All the while blue states carry a majority of the US economy.

I've said this before, but Republicans are masters at word play and propaganda. Their marketing guys deserve blow jobs for life. They use the donor base who only care about fiscal issues to raise money, and a working class base who care mostly about social issues to raise votes. Pretty amazing balancing act to use two opposing sides to gain and keep power.
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post 1537684931 12-16-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted By GhenghisPWN⏩
Always thought it was odd that Republicans try to own the insult of "elite" and play themselves as the treaded on common man, yet they commonly dive on grenades for billionaire donors and call us stupid or say we're useless because we don't grow crops or drive a tractor trailer.

All the while blue states carry a majority of the US economy.

I've said this before, but Republicans are masters at word play and propaganda. Their marketing guys deserve blow jobs for life. They use the donor base who only care about fiscal issues to raise money, and a working class base who care mostly about social issues to raise votes. Pretty amazing balancing act to use two opposing sides to gain and keep power.
Agree, Republicans run circles around Dems when it comes to staying on message and controlling the narrative.

It's amazing to me that after years upon years of defeats, Pelosi is still around to sit at the table. It's shameful honestly.
post 1537685201 12-16-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted By VinnyPazRules⏩
First of all thats bullchit fake news. 2nd if people who are working don't pay taxes it's because they are below the poverty line. You're trying to pass that off as a good thing.

I'm sure they are all laughing all the way to the bank not paying taxes because the are making 30 grand a year working 60 plus hours a week. Yeah they are really getting over on us retard
No, it's actually not "fake news." Do they get hit by things like FICA or state taxes? Sure. But we're averaging about 45% of filers payzerofederal income tax every year. Around 25% have a net negative rate, meaning they get money back when they file (note this isn't people getting a "refund," which is overwithholding your tax burden for the year; this is people who pay zero and get back money through credits).

T15-0138 - Tax Units with Zero or Negative Income Tax

post 1537686301 12-16-2017, 10:14 AM
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#70
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Originally Posted By P51⏩
While this is true that they don’t expire for the upper income people, expiration’s are super common in the tax world. Why? So things can be re-evaluated and changed. Before you claim it’s bad, this may be great and in 10 years the middle class may even have a larger cut. Happens all the time in the business tax code. Depreciation adjustments are made almost yearly when they expire based on the economy.
Why write in an expiration then? Why not just reevaluate? And why does only the middle class see an expiration then?
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post 1537686431 12-16-2017, 10:15 AM
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Any updated reliable tax calculator? Liberal friend was asking if it would even benefit him or only the rich so I wanted to show him the difference.
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post 1537686591 12-16-2017, 10:18 AM
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Does the latest bill eliminate the ACA individual mandate?
post 1537687341 12-16-2017, 10:33 AM
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I lean left but laaaawwwddd my family's new tax bracket is gonna be j00cey
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post 1537688741 12-16-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
Why write in an expiration then? Why not just reevaluate? And why does only the middle class see an expiration then?
most things have expiration’s in tax code..... it’s harder to re-evaluate if you don’t have to. If it expires you have to. Why not for the rich? Probably feared when it expired they wouldn’t get a good re-evaluation lol. Bottom line is don’t worry about 10 years from now, it could be very good (or bad), but you cross that bridge then.
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post 1537688961 12-16-2017, 10:55 AM
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#75
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Originally Posted By P51⏩
most things have expiration’s in tax code..... it’s harder to re-evaluate if you don’t have to. If it expires you have to. Why not for the rich? Probably feared when it expired they wouldn’t get a good re-evaluation lol. Bottom line is don’t worry about 10 years from now, it could be very good (or bad), but you cross that bridge then.
Eh, I understand your logic, I just disagree with the decision they made in terms of which tax cuts expire and which don't. I don't know a single economist on either side of the aisle who doesn't agree with middle class cuts, so I'd rather those be the ones that don't expire than the more controversial upper-class ones.
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post 1537689121 12-16-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
Eh, I understand your logic, I just disagree with the decision they made in terms of which tax cuts expire and which don't. I don't know a single economist on either side of the aisle who doesn't agree with middle class cuts, so I'd rather those be the ones that don't expire than the more controversial upper-class ones.
A company might choose to not expand if they believe the breaks that will help them grow will disappear in 10 years.
post 1537689261 12-16-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted By tng83⏩
Does the latest bill eliminate the ACA individual mandate?
Yes.
post 1537689381 12-16-2017, 11:01 AM
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#78
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Originally Posted By tng83⏩
A company might choose to not expand if they believe the breaks that will help them grow will disappear in 10 years.
Depends on the company, I think. For large corporations, I don't totally buy this argument. For small companies, sure. Plenty of large corporations are sitting on billions upon billions of dollars and could expand without issue, but choose not to. I don't see how tax cuts will somehow change that. In addition, what would be nice is if there were some way to build in assurances that tax cuts would actually go towards expansion and more jobs. I thought there were memos from some of the larger corporations that basically said the tax cuts will just go towards shareholders, though maybe I'm wrong there. If that is the case, however, then that does nothing for anyone save for the shareholders.

The middle class is just forever used as the reason for tax cuts, but never seem to be the main beneficiaries from either party.
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post 1537690551 12-16-2017, 11:20 AM
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I saw something about bob corker getting real estate perks thrown in for an LLC with a small number of employees for pass through taxes to benefit more?

Any details on that yet? Wondering if that will help the common real estate investor or person who has a few rental properties
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post 1537691191 12-16-2017, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
Depends on the company, I think. For large corporations, I don't totally buy this argument. For small companies, sure. Plenty of large corporations are sitting on billions upon billions of dollars and could expand without issue, but choose not to. I don't see how tax cuts will somehow change that. In addition, what would be nice is if there were some way to build in assurances that tax cuts would actually go towards expansion and more jobs. I thought there were memos from some of the larger corporations that basically said the tax cuts will just go towards shareholders, though maybe I'm wrong there. If that is the case, however, then that does nothing for anyone save for the shareholders.

The middle class is just forever used as the reason for tax cuts, but never seem to be the main beneficiaries from either party.
I think large companies tend to be conservative and only do what needs to be done to show constistent quarterly gains. Freeing up money could be what prompts them to take some risk with investment without worrying to kuch that they are upsetting shareholders. In the end we will have to wait and see what happens.
post 1537691271 12-16-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted By ceizer1985⏩
Yes.
Ideologically this is the best part of the bill then.
post 1537691861 12-16-2017, 11:42 AM
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#82
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
The expiration for the middle class is beyond ridiculous given thatI believethey don't expire for the higher brackets + corporations. Should make that permanent as giving the middle class more spending power is what boosts the economy; not a blanket cut for the wealthy/corporations. Cutting taxes on corporations would make sense if the loopholes are closed too; just simplify that across the board.
My understanding is that the expirations were necessary to go through the reconciliation process that could avoid a filibuster. In order to do so they couldn't add x amount to the deficit over 10 years. Allowing the cuts to expire allow it to comply with that. I believe the reasoning for allowing the individual cuts to expire rather than the business/corporate rates is that they're more likely to be voted on to extend by the next administration. No one wants to be the guy that "raised" the tax rates on anyone by allowing them to expire. People are less sympathetic to businesses and may have let them go back up to 39% if they expired instead. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me if I am, but I thought the expirations applied to all individual cuts. If not, I'd assume it's for similar reasons as for the corporate cuts.
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post 1537692131 12-16-2017, 11:46 AM
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#83
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Originally Posted By SpeedCheeser⏩
My understanding is that the expirations were necessary to go through the reconciliation process that could avoid a filibuster. In order to do so they couldn't add x amount to the deficit over 10 years. Allowing the cuts to expire allow it to comply with that. I believe the reasoning for allowing the individual cuts to expire rather than the business/corporate rates is that they're more likely to be voted on to extend by the next administration. No one wants to be the guy that "raised" the tax rates on anyone by allowing them to expire. People are less sympathetic to businesses and may have let them go back up to 39% if they expired instead. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me if I am, but I thought the expirations applied to all individual cuts. If not, I'd assume it's for similar reasons as for the corporate cuts.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...bill-cuts.html

Looks like you're right - just about all individual tax cuts will expire by 2025, per this report.
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post 1537692391 12-16-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
Depends on the company, I think. For large corporations, I don't totally buy this argument. For small companies, sure. Plenty of large corporations are sitting on billions upon billions of dollars and could expand without issue, but choose not to. I don't see how tax cuts will somehow change that. In addition, what would be nice is if there were some way to build in assurances that tax cuts would actually go towards expansion and more jobs. I thought there were memos from some of the larger corporations that basically said the tax cuts will just go towards shareholders, though maybe I'm wrong there. If that is the case, however, then that does nothing for anyone save for the shareholders.

The middle class is just forever used as the reason for tax cuts, but never seem to be the main beneficiaries from either party.
Even if it all goes to shareholders instead of expansion(which is pretty absurd to assume), it would still benefit tons of people. You do realize that people in the middle class own stocks, right?
post 1537692661 12-16-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted By jtaylor2010⏩
Even if it all goes to shareholders instead of expansion(which is pretty absurd to assume), it would still benefit tons of people. You do realize that people in the middle class own stocks, right?
I do realize, but I'm wondering what would benefit the middle classmost. My understanding is that direct cuts to the middle class would likely yield greater returns for them than only those who own stocks, as the majority of the middle class does not own stocks.
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post 1537693611 12-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted By VinnyPazRules⏩
First of all thats bullchit fake news. 2nd if people who are working don't pay taxes it's because they are below the poverty line. You're trying to pass that off as a good thing.

I'm sure they are all laughing all the way to the bank not paying taxes because the are making 30 grand a year working 60 plus hours a week. Yeah they are really getting over on us retard
I'm not really bothered that people living below the poverty line don't pay taxes per say, but I dislike the fact that they're able to get exemptions, and other tax deductions/credits when they never put in anything to begin with. You not paying taxes should be your reward.

edit: This opinion does bring up ethical and moral concerns particularly if you're taking away certain things that everyone has( child tax credit, etc.) Just my opinion, which is flawed.
post 1537693891 12-16-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted By mynameisuntz⏩
I do realize, but I'm wondering what would benefit the middle classmost. My understanding is that direct cuts to the middle class would likely yield greater returns for them than only those who own stocks, as the majority of the middle class does not own stocks.
About half of the country owns stocks. So even as it is right now it would help a ton of people just to see increases in that area. Plus you’re assuming the companies don’t use any of the saved money to invest in expansion or increase wages to be more competitive in hiring, which I find hard to believe. That’s also before we even consider that America would be much more appealing to international companies.


Edit to add- the middle classisgetting direct cuts. It just so happens they’re also getting an environment that makes it more likely for them to make larger profits in the stock market
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#88
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Originally Posted By dhawkeye1980⏩
Anything that rustles you libtards and make you spout BS is a-ok with me

Stay mad ill enjoy keeping more of MY money
it shows what a thick cnut you really are if upsetting people at the price of how much money you have is a win. you have got yourself in so deep with the trumpf propaganda you haven't got the ego to come out and say you are wrong on something. instead you will take a hit to try and save some pride haha keep it up snowflake

keep the shallow insults coming as watching your right wing world crumbling is fantastic.
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post 1537698641 12-16-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted By SillieBazzillie⏩
Other than adding to the deficit, which libs really have no right to cry about, what is left in this bill that's bad? That the individual stuff expires in 8 years? That's an eternity in DC and can be easily changed.

I guess the repeal of the mandate will signal the death of Obamacare but it needs to be massively changed anyway.

Put me down as a yes vote for this tax reform.
I actually am bothered by anybody getting away with a final $0 tax burden. We are all citizens of this Country, so we should all share in the pain. I'm ok with it only being $1. As long as EVERYBODY has some skin in the game. I understand people are going to argue that they pay other taxes as well (sales, gas, etc.) but so does everybody else.
JMO.
Originally Posted By IH8RICE⏩
I'm not really bothered that people living below the poverty line don't pay taxes per say, but I dislike the fact that they're able to get exemptions, and other tax deductions/credits when they never put in anything to begin with. You not paying taxes should be your reward.

edit: This opinion does bring up ethical and moral concerns particularly if you're taking away certain things that everyone has( child tax credit, etc.) Just my opinion, which is flawed.
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post 1537732281 12-16-2017, 07:59 PM
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  1. moksha16
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  3. Join Date: Jul 2014
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Originally Posted By Ephedra⏩
People who make more get a higher "penalty" than those who make less. End of story. The higher you earn the worse governments treats you.
wrong

individuals don't have tax rates... nowhere in the tax code will you see any peoples names

dollars have a tax rate people don't.

every single person in the country is under the same law and pays the exact same rate on the same dollars earned.

You want the guy that wants to have a Ferrari to pay less just because the guy that has a pinto paid less.

The guy that has the dollars to have a Ferrari has a better car, goes faster and gets more pussy.. so he pays more for it.

If he only wanted the dollars to buy a pinto he'd pay less.

If you benefit from society more then you pay more. ... unless you are a ball slurping conservative then you do it on the backs of the middle class and future generations.
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