Mueller isn't "out" to get your sacred Golden Calf. He's out for facts. If they show Trump personally did nothing wrong then so be it. (There still is the obstruction of Justice issue)

I would like Trump to go down... but only if he actually did something.

not relevant to the discussion

He also says "just before the leak" - the Podesta emails wouldn't even be leaked until October.

It absolutely is.

When you guys thought Trump was going to lose, you said "It's not rigged Trump - you're just losing." So what changed?

Can you admit you just want Trump gone?

After the Crimea invasion, Obama said Russia was a "regional power" that was "acting out of weakness." Obama said he was more worried about a lone wolf nuke going off in the middle of Manhattan than Russia.

Why should I take your claims seriously?

Evidence of a conspiracy and Russian influence.

I personally blame Hillary for the loss, bottom line, but when you drill down as to why there is, aside from her being a weak candidate, comey and Russian influence.

At this point I don't care about the loss, time to look forward. What I do care about is if anyone in Trump's campaign broke laws. I would want Dems held accountable too. If we can't trust our elections we are done as a country. This is not a small deal.

First and foremost Obama should have had a legit foreign policy with Russia with well established hard lines and respect.

He started off like that and then suddenly changed to complete weekness for whatever reason around the end of 2012

FBI nsa cia state dept etc - The standard method of action with this level of threat matrix which includes a strong apparatus of human intelligence on the ground at work abroad and stateside to prevent such attacks from occurring or escalating to such a height.

And with that amount of time to prepare a set of parameters for failsafe if it is apparent the threat is escalating on what additional mechanisms must happen.The layout and plans should have been so well in place to prevent the pending attack that it would’ve been completely bipartisan effort between security agencies that naturally occurs and counter intelligence activity where the establish threat prevention matrix wouldn’t even need Obama involvement whatsoever by then.

Yes, I want him gone.

When I play a game I want to win, that doesn't mean I'm going to cheat. I'm aware of my biases. I can put them in a box when I should.

And this is why you will always lose.

If Russian influence was such a big factor, why did her poll numbers get such a huge bounce post-DNC?

And you care about the loss, quit lying.

And no, you wouldn't want to hold Dems accountable. Who are you trying to fool? Awful liar. You seem to have the problem with honesty.

you don't know me. Don't pretend to.Read some Steven Covey and get back to me.

[QUOTE=FatalTragedy12 post_id=1556293091]This is typical Trumpism.[/QUOTE]
Lutz I supposed I’m a blind unconditional Trump supporting

[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1540331101]What an unnecessary PR nightmare Trump created, and others will have to mop up the mess.

Imagine if you are in charge of one of our military bases in one of those nations, ambassador to an embassy, diplomat officer, financial relations contact, etc etc etc.

And all of the sudden the president says this.....

We make great efforts to maintain relations and influence with these nations

- access to naval ports, fuel supply etc

-Intelligence sharing

-Airspace clearance for military aircraft

-Health information sharing for preventing of spreading outbreaks and other diseasen prevention measures(keep it from coming here)

-Prevent enemy or adversary nations from gaining them as allies with their influence

-Financial information needed for thousand of reasons

-Natural resource sharing

Etc etc etc


Intelligence/ military personnel, diplomats , health and human services, leaders of all sorts now have an enormous obstacle of unseeded and unnecessary work to mop up our relationships.

If Trump wants to reduce or prohibit immigration from those nations, fine, the reasoning and choice of words he used is completely uncalled for and unhelpful to many many people.

He created a strategically poor and unneeded mess.

Fuk Trump this was dumb as chit[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1442466281]I'm not sure about Nutsy

My biggest hesitation is

1. His glaringly obvious lack of knowledge regarding international affairs, foreign-policy, and national defense.

For me it will be most critical who his advisers and cabinet members are.


2. The uncertainty of the level for his His VAT tax plan, and the economic impact that may follow.


3. No clear plan on reducing spending enough specifically with entitlements. Hard decisions have been made on that one and even though he talks about reducing waste and fraud and that is it near the amount that will need to be cut on those plans.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1383959803]That is the big question for all of Trumps platform.

He has released virtually 0 details of his plans on sending or taxing.

Why should he? He keeps climbing in the polls with the in your face, no pc, hardline illegal immigrants, anti establishment rhetoric.

Why risk releasing any plan whatsoever right now when that could risk making current supporters question him.

Once he builds a big enough legions of di-hard bandwagon fan boys, he can release any plan and they will blindly support it.

Right now it's still early and they will question it.


When you really listen to him, as well as his recent past, he sounds allot like a tax and spend lib- that wouldn't help him get the gop nomination.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1382390583]It's been hard for me to take him serious based on history with presidential run banter.

I'll admit he growing on me mainly from rustling the media lol

Every time he opens his mouth though, it seems he plans on spending even more money.

I want to hear about[b]less[/b]money being spent.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1409865343]Trump represents almost everything opposite of rand, so I seriously doubt it.

Economics wise trump is pretty much a tax and spend lib, rand is a cut and cut person.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1383954253]You hear are about all the things he wants to spend money on, with very vague answers about detailed with any of it, much less how to pay.

You hear about no details from this simplified tax plan.

Then your hear about better "negotiations " with other nations on trade deals.

Me thinks he plans on raising more revenue from tariffs , and creating almost a "VAT" tax

By "making them pay"( I.e Mexico) he is probably thinking via tariffs (meaning we really pay) and nerffing nafta.

As far as income tax, I bet he is thinking a Tiered simplified system similar to Christies.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1396514263]He is still better than Hilary I guess, I just find it difficult to support that tax and spend lib(Trump)[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1385957063]I'd be happy to here trump talk about cutting[i]any[/i]kind of spending.

So far seems like he talked about a lot of spending ideas and not cutting ideas.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1427070801]Lol VAT tax?



Just look at this thread I made in 2013 about a senate border security bill.

26 times the wording "any sums needed" used 26 times


Congress will make a "negotiation" with trump like this, give him the wall in trade for the crazy spending measures. And they will sneak in the blank check wordings, railroading Trump into a cost into the 100's of billions

[URL=http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showthread.php?t=155004423&pagenumber=]http://forum.obnoxiousbrutes.com/showth...23&pagenumber=[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1426871411]I'm saying that could possible be his main dealing with Ryan prior to any major legislation. They won't take long to find something.

Dealing with congress, including Ryan, he will be very voice tress and quickly call out any congressmen that is attempting to disrupt or obstruct his legislation.

How easy it is to deal with Ryan specifically will be dependent on how big of a win(electoral and popular vote) he has.

If he had a huge win(I think he will) he will be walking in with a "mandate" from the people to a certain point, leaving less room for resistance until the next midterm election.

It is important that he has a VP or advisors that are DC experienced legislators and can help him navigate the process of congressional dealings.

Obviously it will still be different than normal as trump puts his own commanding type spin on it.

Initially parts of his policies will be easy to pass as congressmen will love to get their share of "pork barrel" spending deals for their district to get part of the spending


This will all stop when they can find the bullet to start Impeachment, which Ryan will spearhead(possibly with inside help from the "establishment" vp and advisors)[/QUOTE]


Non believe Russia is a bad guy that does bad things


From 2014

[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1233028553]I hope Obama at least assembles a national security team that specializes in Russia and Eastern European affairs. Our current team is comprised mainly of middle eastern affairs people.

This situation is a game changer for national security[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1274103081]sort of interesting the timing of the story coming out now.
[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1252812281]Yep, we became way too weak image wise. Our ramp up is from the increased on the ground human assets in our world wide intelligence network. And some strategically movements of people and bases. We are ramping up to a cold way type network again. Too little too late for current events, but we will be better prepared the next few years.[/QUOTE]This is the umptenth time they have violated this treaty, and we've known this.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1295798571]We've just painted ourself in a stratigical corner where attacking Assad isn't a good idea for is right now.

We could have played this different way back and not be dealing with it, mainly by dealing with Russia differently.[/QUOTE]
From 2015

[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1404601733][b]Well currently the propaganda agents mainly use social media/ YouTube channels instead of broadcasting.

We are way way behind though, people somewhat laugh at Luke when he comes here talking about Russian propaganda agents- however he is correct in that Russia has put Foward a much greater effort and sizable force at Internet (shills).

We do the same, however not anywhere close to the size or even type effort like Russia does.

Broadcasting is no longer the main go to[/b][/QUOTE]From 2016:

[QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1474811131]Oh for fuk sakes


1. Trump would have won this election regardless.

2. Russia has been trying to influence US elections since the 60s, every single presidential election since then.

3. The Democrats have their panties in a wad because this time Russia wasn't on their side like they normally are.

4. Russia absolutely tried to influence this election and it should be fully investigated.

5. Russia finnaly needs consequences for this behavior.

6. The irony of Democrats ignoring and disregarding this behavior until this election is laughable.

7. The irony of the Obama administration's intelligence apparatus that easily foster's this behavior is laughable.

8. We have some similar interest in partnering with Russia in certain things, but it is nave as fuk to think we all of the sudden should be best friends with Russia. Make no mistake they are our adversary and behavior like this should be dealt with.

9. Along with rebuilding the military Trump needs to rebuild our intelligence apparatus and show US strength when things like this are attempted against us. This calls for sanctions on a minimum.

10. Ignoring and disregarding this kind of behavior by Russia will lead to much greater problems in the future, it's time to make U.S. Alpha again and so them we will not put up with this crap. If we do they will exploit our weakness and nave mentality and use it against us at some point.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1475368971]I despise Hillary

But no American should ever thank Russia for conducting in such behavior.

It is a sheer disrespect because of our pacifist and nave gullible mentality of our foreign-policy insecurity towards them.

The fact that they are blatantly attempting to influence our election with no hesitation or far of recours, and now not even making much of an attempt to hide it signifies their complete disrespect towards our willingness of security.

Obama, Hillary, and Kerry should be ashamed.

Thankfully in November Americans voted and corrected this situation.

No, patriots still should despise them.

If this is true or not Trump was going to win and win in a landslide regardless.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1475365841]Astonishing how nave, gullible, and incompetent this administration has been about foreign-policy and specifically Russia.

Not even to mention their end result of failed security and protection measures from a diminished network of human intelligence assets.


And to think a former member of this failed policy/security administration who was a significant causation of the failed forign policy resulting in this was almost elected president. She might have caused her own demise in the end..... incompetence taking care of itself per say.


Thankfully we dodged a bullet on that one and now wiping clean all the cabinet members and leadership to start over.


Now we can rebuild a strong military, strong intelligence apparatus, and alpha presence towards Russia again that will inhibit them from even attempting something like this.


And yes, they need a strong slap on the face at a minimum.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gachase21 post_id=1475149001]:shrug: idk

Russia has a long recent history of doing a piss a$$ poor job at their attempts to influence our elections.

It is pretty much standard protocol for them to attempt to.

If I had to guess, and only a guess, I would bet they were so trying to influence for the Democrats. You could even argue they were attempting to influence it to help Bernie get elected which would clearly be in their favor more than any.

If they were trying to help Trump it doesn't really matter. Trump was going to win this regardless.[/QUOTE]
I could go on and on

You should consider putting your blind partisanship aside here and see the reality of what actually happened and what is actually going on

Keep on keeping on. Don't ever give up.

As much as I know you would love me to...




No I won’t stop




I am inherently patriotic and I served my country and will do so again if needed or asked in intelligence or defense.



I won’t let partisanship loyalist blind me

sometimes you have to look at what is or might the ugly truth and deal with it.

Nope, I have met way too many people like you. You believe all the propaganda you're given. It's why your responses are EXACTLY the same as everyone else's, and frequently contradict each other. For example - saying multibillion dollar advertising helps but somehow didn't help Clinton. Or saying Russian influence was such a huge help for Trump yet she GAINED in the polls after the DNC.

Proof? In 2012 Russia and Putin were our best friends according to you.

When you say "you guys" you meanYOU.

Your post history is not forgotten.

You havn't met me.source?you sound drunk at this point.do we know how much further (farther?) she would have advanced if not for the influence of Russia?You have now gone into just making stuff up. I'll save you the time. You will never find anything anywhere where I said anything close to that.

We are talking about Russian influence, right? Russia has nothing to do with anything like that.

Also, the Clinton campaign only said it was a pneumonia only AFTER that video of her being thrown into a van like a side of beef came out. Now do you know why I think you're not very honest?

What do you think of the UK parliament debating about banning Trump during the campaign? Is that not getting involved in our election?

We'll see.

Let me ask you this - Mueller has asked the Trump campaign about Russian oligarch Vekelsberg donating to the Trump inauguration. Was that fair game to you?

Saving this for later LMFAO what will be your excuse when nothing definitely happens

Not aware, but I'm not sure what's would be wrong with asking a question...and

I stand by what I said because we are being proven day by day Trump is an idiot.

Vekelsberg also donated $100,000+ to the Clinton foundation. How come Mueller isn't investigating that? Why is he only investigating Trump's people?

Lmao. You just threw up a ton of straw and now you want to talk about Russian influence.

She had pneumonia, the right claimed she was dying. Who's dishonest?

And this thread is not about UK Parliament. It's about Roger Stone admitting he was involved with facilitating Russian collusion with the Trump administration.

Still not relevent

You're aware that the Clinton Foundation was an A rated charity that at one time delivered AIDS medicines to 1 in every 10 people on earth that were taking AIDS medicine. It really is sad that they had to fold their charity under the weight of rediculous conspiracy theories. Charities like theirs, Bill Gates and Jimmy Carter's have doen a lot of good in this world... but we live in a day where for many good has become bad... ala Tears implying following the rules is a losing stratagy.

In life, the good man does the right thing for the right reasons. The chips fall where they might, but the good man sleeps well.

You're reaching... and boring me.

At this rate it’s unlikely


There is no current investigation undergoing for the matter.


And the only investigation that is going on is lead by a potential unindicted co-conspirator who’s conflict and potential self-incrimination would likely discourage them from digging into it, that is only investigating the after event and potentially causing hardship for a victim(Trump) that may end up implicated rather than the people that are the cause.

You seem to have a problem with the truth.THAT'S what I was referring to and why I brought up Russia. You guys are trying to claim "Clinton body count" are Russian memes.

And why did the Clinton campaign only say pneumonia until AFTER the video came out? Why not before? Give me a good reason.

Also why does Clinton STILL continue to have coughing fits? Does she still have a pneumonia?

"It's about Roger Stone admitting he was involved with facilitating Russian collusion with the Trump administration."

Hillary Clinton also colluded with foreign governments.

If only you knew how bad it was.