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Forum » More General Categories » Religion and Politics » Judge orders WH to temporarily reinstate Acosta's pass
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Thread: Judge orders WH to temporarily reinstate Acosta's pass

post 1566426421 11-16-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted By OptimistPrime11⏩
He was elected exactly because he is not a polished politician.

Duhhhh.....how do you not know this by now?

If America wanted another paint by numbers cookie cutter kissing (groping?) young kids and babies life long politician, they could have elected Joe Biden.
Unpolished politician, respect for the White House and the Office of the Presidency, are not mutually exclusive. Go back to watching Transformers, son.
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post 1566426911 11-16-2018, 06:01 PM
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It's funny how people's hatred of Trump makes them completely not care about the implications of anything that doesn't go his way. A judge just ordered the White House to allow someone entry? What does that have to do with his freedom of speech? You do not have a right to be in the White House. CNN has many other reporters in the WH so they were not being shut out. Acosta was free to say or print whatever he wanted.
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post 1566428061 11-16-2018, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Reflexez⏩
As I said, you should rightfully celebrate that you have the freedom afforded to you which allows you to post such nonsensical garbage.
Actually first amendment has nothing to do with it. This is a private owned company who’s rules and regs determines what I can/can’t post and I have to fit into their guidelines and they could terminate anyone’s posting as they see fit. IE here I cant post racist stuff but someone could go outside in America and do the nazi salute like the pug dog and not worry about the government arresting them.
post 1566429101 11-16-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By NameOfPeace⏩
he didnt get banned for asking tough and critical questions, he got banned for his descriptiveness, bad attitude, and unprofessional actions such as refusing to give the microphone back to the intern. do you believe that kind of behavior is acceptable in the white house? please dont respond by bringing up trumps **** behavior as an excuse. either trumps behavior should be shunned and so should acostas or acostas behavior is ok and by extension trumps is acceptable. not trying to take a side or start an argument but seeing people on here constantly sidestepping reality makes me think half of you are just trolling, or truly incapable of setting aside your emotional biases
I watched the whole press conference just now at 2x speed.

I saw reporters doing the following:

Setting up questions with statements of fact (nearly all of them)

Asking follow-up questions (about half of them)

Asking more than one question (about half of them)

Trying to speak out of turn (Acosta + April Ryan)

Trying to ask another question when Trump clearly grew frustrated and wanted to move on (3 reporters total including Acosta).

Generally being aggressive, or combative, or annoying with their questioning. (3 reporters total including Acosta).

So what do you suggest? What should the rules be? Should reporters just simply do exactly as Trump says like they are puppets or something? Submit questions in writing and have them screened beforehand? Are reporters not allowed to express opinions? Should they not ask critical, difficult, or challenging questions? Should they fall immediately silent and bow their heads when the God-Emperor speaks? Beg the God-Emperor forgiveness when they inadvertently interrupt him? Hand in their press pass if they lose their cool and try to argue with the President?
Doc had but three redeeming traits. One was his courage; he was afraid of nothing on Earth. The second was the one commendable principal in his code of life, sterling loyalty to friends. The third was his affection for Wyatt Earp.
post 1566429301 11-16-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By redmelly⏩
That doesn't work. He's disruptive and screams the questions out, even from the back. Have you watched him in action? The other reporters try to shush him and he still keeps on. He's a heckler, not a reporter.
Then just ignore him like you would a child and let him do it...then ban him again.
Originally Posted By gregfft⏩
Trump nuts falsely accused Acosta of sexual misconduct while they ignore the hundreds of valid complaints against Trump for sexual misconduct.
-1/10 troll attempt
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post 1566429321 11-16-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By 89FoxBody⏩
It's funny how people's hatred of Trump makes them completely not care about the implications of anything that doesn't go his way. A judge just ordered the White House to allow someone entry? What does that have to do with his freedom of speech? You do not have a right to be in the White House. CNN has many other reporters in the WH so they were not being shut out. Acosta was free to say or print whatever he wanted.
I encourage you to read the precedent-setting cases (a lot of them are referenced in the Sherrill v. Knight case the judge today referenced), as well as the Constitution itself.

https://openjurist.org/569/f2d/124/sherrill-v-h-knight
Doc had but three redeeming traits. One was his courage; he was afraid of nothing on Earth. The second was the one commendable principal in his code of life, sterling loyalty to friends. The third was his affection for Wyatt Earp.
post 1566430081 11-16-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
I watched the whole press conference just now at 2x speed.

I saw reporters doing the following:

Setting up questions with statements of fact (nearly all of them)

Asking follow-up questions (about half of them)

Asking more than one question (about half of them)

Trying to speak out of turn (Acosta + April Ryan)

Trying to ask another question when Trump clearly grew frustrated and wanted to move on (3 reporters total including Acosta).

Generally being aggressive, or combative, or annoying with their questioning. (3 reporters total including Acosta).

So what do you suggest? What should the rules be? Should reporters just simply do exactly as Trump says like they are puppets or something? Submit questions in writing and have them screened beforehand? Are reporters not allowed to express opinions? Should they not ask critical, difficult, or challenging questions? Should they fall immediately silent and bow their heads when the God-Emperor speaks? Beg the God-Emperor forgiveness when they inadvertently interrupt him? Hand in their press pass if they lose their cool and try to argue with the President?
well i asked you a question of whether you thought acosta's behavior was exceptable, you did not answer and instead asked me various questions. if you could answer that would be great. and to be further specific im talking about his behavior once trump said to move on to the next but acosta kept asking questions and ESPECIALLY the part where he refused to give the microphone over to the press lady. reporters continuously shouting out in general as they all do is chaotic and could be replaced with something similar to the harvard way mentioned earlier in the thread, but there is an obvious difference between everyone else and acosta and it has nothing to do with the questions hes asking, its everything else he does and how he does it.
post 1566431361 11-16-2018, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted By NameOfPeace⏩
well i asked you a question of whether you thought acosta's behavior was exceptable, you did not answer and instead asked me various questions. if you could answer that would be great. and to be further specific im talking about his behavior once trump said to move on to the next but acosta kept asking questions and ESPECIALLY the part where he refused to give the microphone over to the press lady. reporters continuously shouting out in general as they all do is chaotic and could be replaced with something similar to the harvard way mentioned earlier in the thread, but there is an obvious difference between everyone else and acosta and it has nothing to do with the questions hes asking, its everything else he does and how he does it.
I don't know what you're trying to get at when you use the word acceptable. Should Acosta be criticized for being a little too combative? Yeah, I think he is combative and annoying with his general approach. I think it's okay to criticize him.

Should he be banned? No.

Should he be banned for his behavior in the last press conference? No.

Should he be banned for not immediately giving up the microphone? No. I consider the fumbling over the microphone a very minor social faux pas.

The one thing he tends to do which bugs me personally is his habit of directly arguing with Trump or Sarah Sanders. I think he shouldn't do that. But it's not at the level where I think he should be banned. Of course, I spend a lot of my time communicating with people who hate me, and personally insult me, and say nasty stuff, so my perspective might be a little skewed and my skin a little tougher than most.
Doc had but three redeeming traits. One was his courage; he was afraid of nothing on Earth. The second was the one commendable principal in his code of life, sterling loyalty to friends. The third was his affection for Wyatt Earp.
post 1566437751 11-16-2018, 08:16 PM
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#219
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If he misbehaves we'll throw him out...priceless. It's like a kindergarten school for reporters...
Hey Timmy, show us on the boy doll where the tampon goes...
post 1566439471 11-16-2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
I don't know what you're trying to get at when you use the word acceptable. Should Acosta be criticized for being a little too combative? Yeah, I think he is combative and annoying with his general approach. I think it's okay to criticize him.

Should he be banned? No.

Should he be banned for his behavior in the last press conference? No.

Should he be banned for not immediately giving up the microphone? No. I consider the fumbling over the microphone a very minor social faux pas.

The one thing he tends to do which bugs me personally is his habit of directly arguing with Trump or Sarah Sanders. I think he shouldn't do that. But it's not at the level where I think he should be banned. Of course, I spend a lot of my time communicating with people who hate me, and personally insult me, and say nasty stuff, so my perspective might be a little skewed and my skin a little tougher than most.
tthats because u are one incredibly ignorant dumb fuk sheep.
post 1566439731 11-16-2018, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By OptimistPrime11⏩
I do agree I have always thought it kind of ridiculous how the press can just shout at will asking for the POTUS attention.'

Seems really uncivilized. And that goes for both Rep. and Dem. POTUS.
and don't kid yourself, those reporters live for these press conferences so they can get their mugs all over the nightly news. It's disgusting in a way...
Hey Timmy, show us on the boy doll where the tampon goes...
post 1566439781 11-16-2018, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted By EternaLovE⏩
tthats because u are one incredibly ignorant dumb fuk sheep.
Beowulf has slain this Grendel.
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post 1566440061 11-16-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
So what do you suggest? What should the rules be? Should reporters just simply do exactly as Trump says like they are puppets or something? Submit questions in writing and have them screened beforehand? Are reporters not allowed to express opinions? Should they not ask critical, difficult, or challenging questions? Should they fall immediately silent and bow their heads when the God-Emperor speaks? Beg the God-Emperor forgiveness when they inadvertently interrupt him? Hand in their press pass if they lose their cool and try to argue with the President?
So basically like they did during Obama's two terms...
Hey Timmy, show us on the boy doll where the tampon goes...
post 1566441941 11-16-2018, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
I don't know what you're trying to get at when you use the word acceptable. Should Acosta be criticized for being a little too combative? Yeah, I think he is combative and annoying with his general approach. I think it's okay to criticize him.

Should he be banned? No.

Should he be banned for his behavior in the last press conference? No.

Should he be banned for not immediately giving up the microphone? No. I consider the fumbling over the microphone a very minor social faux pas.

The one thing he tends to do which bugs me personally is his habit of directly arguing with Trump or Sarah Sanders. I think he shouldn't do that. But it's not at the level where I think he should be banned. Of course, I spend a lot of my time communicating with people who hate me, and personally insult me, and say nasty stuff, so my perspective might be a little skewed and my skin a little tougher than most.
ok well you say he shouldnt be banned but say that he is too aggressive. so what should the white house do since he yells over the president, doesnt pass the microphone to and requires someone to forcefully take it from him (after the first attempt being brushed asside physically), and even when he isnt called on yelling over other reporters at trump? is there another alternative im not aware of since even when they dont call on him he apparently yells over others. i highly doubt they could ask him to stop since he doesnt stop when they ask him during the press meetings. does that mean its ok for other reporters to yell out continuously and refuse to give the mic up when their turn is up, even physically pushing employees aside so they cant take the mic from him?

also how is refusing to give up the mic and to the point of pushing away an employee ok? doing something like that in many companies would get you kicked out or punished in some way, why is it ok when he does it so he can disrupt a press meeting further?
post 1566442891 11-16-2018, 09:27 PM
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Stop giving CNN “journalists” press passes until they can contro their people. Problem solved?
post 1566443541 11-16-2018, 09:38 PM
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If it violated the 1st amendment, doesnt that mean banning any type of gun is violating the 2nd?
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post 1566447501 11-16-2018, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted By JamesMUSCLE⏩
If it violated the 1st amendment, doesnt that mean banning any type of gun is violating the 2nd?
Bless your heart.
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post 1566449211 11-17-2018, 12:21 AM
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LOL at the salty trumpers.

How's that wall going?
My personal pronouns are: Don't talk to me/Fck off
post 1566449541 11-17-2018, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted By z4v4⏩
Unpolished politician, respect for the White House and the Office of the Presidency, are not mutually exclusive. Go back to watching Transformers, son.
I promise you I am older than you and have much more life experience than you could ever hope to imagine.
post 1566449691 11-17-2018, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted By OptimistPrime11⏩
I promise you I am older than you and have much more life experience than you could ever hope to imagine.
List age and life experiences, son.
Deepfat: "I guarantee I beat you by at least 6 strokes. Afterwards, I'll slide my thick conservative cawk in your old lady just to finish the job."

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Deep: "I won't subject myself to being in the presence of a scumbag."
post 1566457681 11-17-2018, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted By bobbydigitaloa⏩
Then just ignore him like you would a child and let him do it...then ban him again.
They will definitely have grounds to ban him now that they are going to have rules. Ignoring him wasn’t a viable option if you go back and watch old videos of him yelling out. The space they are in is too small. When he’s yelling like that, its tough to hear what the next reporter is asking and it definitely screws with hearing and understanding Trump’s answer. Ignoring him only works if you are going to “pause” the press conference, which is a move I do agree with. Every time he yells out, stop the press conference altogether. But moving on and just ignoring him is easier said than done.
ALL I ASK IS ALL YOU GOT FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES
post 1566467321 11-17-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted By NameOfPeace⏩
ok well you say he shouldnt be banned but say that he is too aggressive. so what should the white house do since he yells over the president, doesnt pass the microphone to and requires someone to forcefully take it from him (after the first attempt being brushed asside physically), and even when he isnt called on yelling over other reporters at trump? is there another alternative im not aware of since even when they dont call on him he apparently yells over others. i highly doubt they could ask him to stop since he doesnt stop when they ask him during the press meetings. does that mean its ok for other reporters to yell out continuously and refuse to give the mic up when their turn is up, even physically pushing employees aside so they cant take the mic from him?also how is refusing to give up the mic and to the point of pushing away an employee ok? doing something like that in many companies would get you kicked out or punished in some way, why is it ok when he does it so he can disrupt a press meeting further?
1. Maybe this isn't a problem that needs to be solved? Maybe it's okay that Trump has to deal with pushy and annoying reporters? Maybe the First Amendment is more important than Trump's lack of emotional control and more important than Trump's personal irritations? And maybe the First Amendment is more important than the feelings of triggered Trump supporters? People put up with all sorts of crap with regard to the 2nd Amendment because they consider the Second Amendment more important than the costs of having it. Why can we not think of the Amendment which was includedfirstin a similar way?

2. Maybe, just maybe, Trump should consider changing his own behavior?

If this really is a problem you think needs to be solved there are things the President and the WH can do to help mitigate it. Part for the reason for the lack order and the pushy behavior on the part of Acosta and other reporters is Trump's own reluctance to engage with the media. If there was more interaction with the press/media there would be less of a reason for reporters to be pushy and annoying.

The WH has far fewer press briefings with Sarah Sanders these days:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/02/whit...e-control.html

Trump doesn't hold that many press conferences either:

https://theweek.com/speedreads/77040...r-trump-held-1

The few times Trump does talk to the media it's when he's boarding the helicopter or inside the the oval office talking to a foreign leader, or inside the cabinet room. These are often chaotic and/or impromptu events, and Trump's interaction with the press doesn't always last that long, and due to the circumstances of these sorts of meetings Trump has more of an ability to arbitrarily end discussion at any time when he starts getting asked questions he doesn't like, or it happens to be a particular bad news day for him.

3. Trump has other options. He can also just remind Acosta to stop being annoying in various informal ways. The press pool, if they don't like Acosta's behavior, can find informal ways of modifying Acosta's behavior as well which don't infringe on the First Amendment. CNN can find ways of modifying Acosta's behavior, both informal and formal which don't infringe on the First Amendment.

--

All of these choices seem better than infringing on Acosta's First Amendment rights, and also our rights to have access to information pertaining to the choices our representative, Trump, is making on our behalf.
Doc had but three redeeming traits. One was his courage; he was afraid of nothing on Earth. The second was the one commendable principal in his code of life, sterling loyalty to friends. The third was his affection for Wyatt Earp.
post 1566468361 11-17-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
1. Maybe this isn't a problem that needs to be solved? Maybe it's okay that Trump has to deal with pushy and annoying reporters? Maybe the First Amendment is more important than Trump's lack of emotional control and more important than Trump's personal irritations? And maybe the First Amendment is more important than the feelings of triggered Trump supporters? People put up with all sorts of crap with regard to the 2nd Amendment because they consider the Second Amendment more important than the costs of having it. Why can we not think of the Amendment which was includedfirstin a similar way?

2. Maybe, just maybe, Trump should consider changing his own behavior?

If this really is a problem you think needs to be solved there are things the President and the WH can do to help mitigate it. Part for the reason for the lack order and the pushy behavior on the part of Acosta and other reporters is Trump's own reluctance to engage with the media. If there was more interaction with the press/media there would be less of a reason for reporters to be pushy and annoying.

The WH has far fewer press briefings with Sarah Sanders these days:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/02/whit...e-control.html

Trump doesn't hold that many press conferences either:

https://theweek.com/speedreads/77040...r-trump-held-1

The few times Trump does talk to the media it's when he's boarding the helicopter or inside the the oval office talking to a foreign leader, or inside the cabinet room. These are often chaotic and/or impromptu events, and Trump's interaction with the press doesn't always last that long, and due to the circumstances of these sorts of meetings Trump has more of an ability to arbitrarily end discussion at any time when he starts getting asked questions he doesn't like, or it happens to be a particular bad news day for him.

3. Trump has other options. He can also just remind Acosta to stop being annoying in various informal ways. The press pool, if they don't like Acosta's behavior, can find informal ways of modifying Acosta's behavior as well which don't infringe on the First Amendment. CNN can find ways of modifying Acosta's behavior, both informal and formal which don't infringe on the First Amendment.
since you keep avoiding a big part of my questions ill just ask outright. do you think it is ok for a press person like acosta to refuse to give back the microphone and yell over other reporters repeatedly so only his questions get answered?

and before you go back to trump needing to answer the hard questions your right he should. but he doesnt not have to and its his choice. why does acostas first amendment rights from your perspective trump the other press members first amendment rights? why can he prevent them from having their turn or yelling over them to the point they cant be heard, seems like that would be a violation by your standards.

please answer the first question btw instead of just focusing on the second. also just lol at the white house having to resort to informal tactics to stop a guy from doing the stuff acostas doing. how are they going to have tons of rules and security but not make rules for press etiquette and press conferences in general.
post 1566471631 11-17-2018, 10:22 AM
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#234
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
1. Maybe this isn't a problem that needs to be solved? Maybe it's okay that Trump has to deal with pushy and annoying reporters? Maybe the First Amendment is more important than Trump's lack of emotional control and more important than Trump's personal irritations? And maybe the First Amendment is more important than the feelings of triggered Trump supporters? People put up with all sorts of crap with regard to the 2nd Amendment because they consider the Second Amendment more important than the costs of having it. Why can we not think of the Amendment which was includedfirstin a similar way?

2. Maybe, just maybe, Trump should consider changing his own behavior?

If this really is a problem you think needs to be solved there are things the President and the WH can do to help mitigate it. Part for the reason for the lack order and the pushy behavior on the part of Acosta and other reporters is Trump's own reluctance to engage with the media. If there was more interaction with the press/media there would be less of a reason for reporters to be pushy and annoying.

The WH has far fewer press briefings with Sarah Sanders these days:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/02/whit...e-control.html

Trump doesn't hold that many press conferences either:

https://theweek.com/speedreads/77040...r-trump-held-1

The few times Trump does talk to the media it's when he's boarding the helicopter or inside the the oval office talking to a foreign leader, or inside the cabinet room. These are often chaotic and/or impromptu events, and Trump's interaction with the press doesn't always last that long, and due to the circumstances of these sorts of meetings Trump has more of an ability to arbitrarily end discussion at any time when he starts getting asked questions he doesn't like, or it happens to be a particular bad news day for him.

3. Trump has other options. He can also just remind Acosta to stop being annoying in various informal ways. The press pool, if they don't like Acosta's behavior, can find informal ways of modifying Acosta's behavior as well which don't infringe on the First Amendment. CNN can find ways of modifying Acosta's behavior, both informal and formal which don't infringe on the First Amendment.

--

All of these choices seem better than infringing on Acosta's First Amendment rights, and also our rights to have access to information pertaining to the choices our representative, Trump, is making on our behalf.
You keep mentioning the 1st Amendment which this has nothing to do with. The judge didn't even consider that part of the argument when issuing the TRO.
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post 1566473951 11-17-2018, 10:55 AM
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I would just like to take a second to point out that while Jim Acosta was lecturing the president that migrants were hundreds and hundreds of miles away and shouldn’t be bothered with...3,000 of them have arrived in Tijuana. So now I guess Acosta needs to lecture whomever made the map, and convince them that Tijuana is “hundreds and hundreds” of miles away. Give’m hell Jim!
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post 1566475581 11-17-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted By 89FoxBody⏩
You keep mentioning the 1st Amendment which this has nothing to do with. The judge didn't even consider that part of the argument when issuing the TRO.
“You keep saying that word. I don’t think it means what you think it does.” LOL
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post 1566476671 11-17-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted By 89FoxBody⏩
You keep mentioning the 1st Amendment which this has nothing to do with. The judge didn't even consider that part of the argument when issuing the TRO.
I responded to this false assertion earlier:
Originally Posted By wesleysh21⏩
the 1st amendment was NOT a part of this ruling. The judge specifically said he is not ruling on the 1st amendment portion of the case, only procedure. And since there is no procedure in place, he says the WH needs to come up with one.

From Judge Kelly in his ruling..."I have not determined the First Amendment was violated here."
Due Process doesn't take place in a vacuum. The cases related to Due Process violations are usually connected to something else. The Judge ruled against the WH under the rationale that not reinstating Acosta's press pass might lead to harms as it relates to the First Amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-white-house/

Trump-appointed judge: Get CNN’s Jim Acosta back in the White House

By Erik Wemple

In a Friday morning court session, Judge Timothy Kelly of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia lent his thinking to the matter, which resulted in the granting of CNN’s request for the TRO — meaning that Acosta’s press pass will be reinstated, though just “temporarily,” according to a statement from Sanders. In his discussion of the TRO request,Kelly considered the likelihood that CNN would prevail in its arguments that the hard-pass revocation violated due-process considerations. Likely, Kelly ruled.Wednesday’s oral arguments and the judge’s explanation centered on the 1977 case Sherrill v. Knight, in which a “court found that denial of White House credentials was a sufficiently grave infringement on thefreedom of the pressthat it couldn’t just be done by fiat.” In his own summation, Kelly said that Sherrill stands for the proposition that the “Fifth Amendment’s due process clause protects a reporter’sFirst Amendment liberty interestin a White House press pass.”

As Kelly plowed through the particulars, he also considered whether the revocation constituted “irreparable harm.” In this context, he addressed the idea that other reporters could well do what Acosta does:

"Here, the procedures and process violation at issue, that has led to the deprivation of what [Sherrill v. Knight] requires me to recognize as a liberty interest … that’s grounded in theFirst Amendment guarantee of freedom of the press. Moreover, theFirst Amendment interestsas recognized in Sherrill were not vested merely in publications or agencies; they were liberties of the individual journalists themselves. For that reason, that CNN may still send another journalist or other journalists to the White House does not make the harm to Mr. Acosta any less irreparable. … It’s a harm that cannot be remedied in retrospect. … So on this highly, highly unusual set of facts and interests at stake, I do find that the plaintiffs have met their burden of establishing that irreparable harm has and will continue to occur in the absence of [remedy]."

As he finished his presentation, Kelly emphasized what he hadn’t decided — namely, whether there was a content-based First Amendment issue at hand: “I have not determined that the First Amendment was violated here. I have not determined what legal standard would apply to the First Amendment claim here.” A statement from Sanders seized on this omission: “Today, the court made clear that there is no absolute First Amendment right to access the White House. In response to the court, we will temporarily reinstate the reporter’s hard pass. We will also further develop rules and processes to ensure fair and orderly press conferences in the future. There must be decorum at the White House.” Even so, Acosta will be haunting the White House grounds very shortly.
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post 1566478131 11-17-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted By NameOfPeace⏩
since you keep avoiding a big part of my questions ill just ask outright. do you think it is ok for a press person like acosta to refuse to give back the microphone and yell over other reporters repeatedly so only his questions get answered?
My previous response suggested the possibility that the First Amendment is more important than enforcing etiquette and protocol rules on journalists. To put it another way. I'm suggesting that maybe this is something Trump and Trump supporters should just have to put up with.

Do I think Acosta's behavior is okay? No. It’s not okay for people to behave rudely, even Acosta, but what I’m trying to suggest to you is that Acosta’s behavior doesn’t matter that much. We shouldn’t be worried about what sort of penalties should be applied to Acosta. A similar thing happens on this forum. People routinely insult other people, it’s rude and it’s annoying, but few people ever get banned, and somehow we are still able to have conversations and communicate with each other.

I suggest to you that maybe we should do anything about Acosta's behavior.
and before you go back to trump needing to answer the hard questions your right he should. but he doesnt not have to and its his choice. why does acostas first amendment rights from your perspective trump the other press members first amendment rights? why can he prevent them from having their turn or yelling over them to the point they cant be heard, seems like that would be a violation by your standards.
His rights aren’t more important than anyone else’s but consider this: I watched the whole press conference. The format is not as formal as you think and many other reporters engaged in similar kinds of behavior as Acosta. 3 other reporters tried to get in extra questions when Trump wanted to move on. 2 other reporters refused to give up the mic when Trump wanted to move on. One other reporter aside from Acosta tried to argue with Trump. So Acosta’s behavior isn’t that extreme. This idea Acosta MUST be banned doesn’t have much merit in my view.

My personal opinion is that Trump banned Acosta because Acosta asks Trump difficult and challenging questions. I think most fair-minded people believe this. The judge who ruled against Trump yesterday believed this. And even the WH lawyers, in their argument, discarded the idea that’s Acosta hit the intern and tried to claim that they could ban reporters for issues related to the content and tenor of their questions.
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post 1566482001 11-17-2018, 01:02 PM
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also just lol at the white house having to resort to informal tactics to stop a guy from doing the stuff acostas doing. how are they going to have tons of rules and security but not make rules for press etiquette and press conferences in general.
In my view the root of the problem is not Acosta. The root of the problem is that Trump doesn't want to have to deal with difficult questions from critics and tough reporters. That's why Hannity gets to go on stage with Trump, and why Acosta gets banned. Trump supporters cannot see this because they literally believe Acosta is an enemy of the people and has no right to interfere in Trump's agenda by asking critical questions (which is completely contrary to our founding principles and ideals).

And the reason why many press events resemble a free-for-all is because Trump rarely does them, and when he does it's usually a spur-of-the-moment, informal chaotic event. I tried to highlight this above, but I guess you don't think it's an important point.

With regard to the kinds of things that the Trump administration can do, if it actually cares about etiquette -- which I really don't think is the case as this criticism is coming from one of the rudest human beings to ever occupy the office -- there are a wide variety of tools the WH can use other than just banning people:

One of those things is to lead by example. So instead of being an absolute pr**k in every situation Trump could just behave politely. That's one. The behavior of a leader rubs off on others.

Another tactic would be polite reminders to Acosta, which can be done in public and in private.

Another tactic would be to badger, insult, and put down the reporter during press conferences, a form of public humiliation. This is actually Trump's favorite informal tactic and he uses it quite frequently. Trump loves to humiliate people. In fact, it's one of a bully's (Authoritarian's) favorite tool of manipulation. Obviously, it doesn't work on everyone. Some reporters, like Acosta, are tough and can stand up to authority figures when they do things like this.

Another tactic would be to use humor to highlight a rude reporter's poor behavior while also sparing the reporter from the same degree of shame that public humiliation would entail.

Another tactic would be to simply give up on this idea that Trump can do and say whatever the heck he wants without consequence and without regard to the First Amendment, to give up on this idea that President Trump should be allowed to be completely unaccountable to the press, and simply allow Acosta to ask the difficult questions Trump hates answering -- and this is never going to happen because the etiquette stuff is a red herring. And Trump supporters cannot understand this approach because they think Trump is a God-Emperor and everyone else should just shut up and listen. News flash guys: this isn't a dictatorship.


--

But none of that really matters. This isn't really about Acosta. What this is about is Trump wanting people to stfu and do what he says. What this is about is Trump supporters hating the media and wanting everyone else to toe the line and listen to Trump, and never criticize Trump, and never be rude to Trump, and just stfu and do what he says, because he's the President and everyone else should just shut up. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude runs contrary to our traditional values and principles as a country. This is a free country and we all have the right to criticize the President.
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post 1566483521 11-17-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By beowulf10⏩
In my view the root of the problem is not Acosta. The root of the problem is that Trump doesn't want to have to deal with difficult questions from critics and tough reporters. That's why Hannity gets to go on stage with Trump, and why Acosta gets banned. Trump supporters cannot see this because they literally believe Acosta is an enemy of the people and has no right to interfere in Trump's agenda by asking critical questions (which is completely contrary to our founding principles and ideals).

And the reason why many press events resemble a free-for-all is because Trump rarely does them, and when he does it's usually a spur-of-the-moment, informal chaotic event. I tried to highlight this above, but I guess you don't think it's an important point.

With regard to the kinds of things that the Trump administration can do, if it actually cares about etiquette -- which I really don't think is the case as this criticism is coming from one of the rudest human beings to ever occupy the office -- there are a wide variety of tools the WH can use other than just banning people:

One of those things is to lead by example. So instead of being an absolute pr**k in every situation Trump could just behave politely. That's one. The behavior of a leader rubs off on others.

Another tactic would be polite reminders to Acosta, which can be done in public and in private.

Another tactic would be to badger, insult, and put down the reporter during press conferences, a form of public humiliation. This is actually Trump's favorite informal tactic and he uses it quite frequently. Trump loves to humiliate people. In fact, it's one of a bully's (Authoritarian's) favorite tool of manipulation. Obviously, it doesn't work on everyone. Some reporters, like Acosta, are tough and can stand up to authority figures when they do things like this.

Another tactic would be to use humor to highlight a rude reporter's poor behavior while also sparing the reporter from the same degree of shame that public humiliation would entail.

Another tactic would be to simply give up on this idea that Trump can do and say whatever the heck he wants without consequence and without regard to the First Amendment, to give up on this idea that President Trump should be allowed to be completely unaccountable to the press, and simply allow Acosta to ask the difficult questions Trump hates answering -- and this is never going to happen because the etiquette stuff is a red herring. And Trump supporters cannot understand this approach because they think Trump is a God-Emperor and everyone else should just shut up and listen. News flash guys: this isn't a dictatorship.


--

But none of that really matters. This isn't really about Acosta. What this is about is Trump wanting people to stfu and do what he says. What this is about is Trump supporters hating the media and wanting everyone else to toe the line and listen to Trump, and never criticize Trump, and never be rude to Trump, and just stfu and do what he says, because he's the President and everyone else should just shut up. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude runs contrary to our traditional values and principles as a country. This is a free country and we all have the right to criticize the President.
my talking point has been mainly focused on acosta but you keep making it about trump but then you say acosta is in trouble for asking difficult or critical questions, it has to do with his behavior not his words. alot of your solutions seem to promote further shunning and essentially bullying reporters but you say trump is very rude and and authoritarian because of his bullying. so your saying to solve the acosta problem trump shoud 1. allow acostas to do and say whatever he wants with impunity or 2. bully him in an authoritarian way, implying you want trump to further do the things your criticizing him for doing. think i might stop this convo and agree to disagree because it appears that you have put acosta on a pedestal as a man who stands for freedom and the people standing up against the evil and childish trump. what i see is a rude unprofessional president and a rude unprofessional press person doing roughly the same type of ****, except in your and a few other peoples eyes acosta is the hero who did no wrong and trump is the dictator who is fully to blame for everything
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