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Forum » More General Categories » MMA Fighting » UFC 286: 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇯🇲 Edwards vs USMAN 3 🇳🇬🇺🇸 discussions thread
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Thread: UFC 286: 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇯🇲 Edwards vs USMAN 3 🇳🇬🇺🇸 discussions thread

post 1679199153 03-18-2023, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted By Cartiac⏩
Maybe I'm a retard, but I still have no idea how you came up with that response from what I posted, thanks for your input.
It was more of a response to the thing you were responding to, taking the entire thing into account. I don't think I've ever called you a retard anywhere btw, just the guy you quoted.

Anyway to respond to your other thing with the Khabib quote. Just look at Anderson's first UFC loss, Fedor's first loss, Aldo after losing to Conor. The only GOAT candidate who came back from a loss is GSP and that was an early career loss and it completely changed him and his style too. So yeah that's a good point, once somebody is getting old and is leaving his prime behind, don't hope for a comeback. It's over and they'll never be on their old level again.
post 1679199263 03-18-2023, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
It was more of a response to the thing you were responding to, taking the entire thing into account.

Anyway to respond to your other thing with the Khabib quote. Just look at Anderson's first UFC loss, Fedor's first loss, Aldo after losing to Conor. The only GOAT candidate who came back from a loss is GSP and that was an early career loss and it completely changed him and his style too. So yeah that's a good point, once somebody is getting old and is leaving his prime behind, don't hope for a comeback. It's over and they'll never be on their old level again.
Jones too. He lost to Reyes but it wasn't a terrible loss and he probably convinced himself he won so I guess it's different
post 1679199353 03-18-2023, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
Bruh I can totally get if you aren't a fan of Edwards or Usman but if you cannot see they're both high level MMA fighters you honestly understand very little about the sport. Quite frankly that is a pretty retarded take and there's no way around it.



You do realize that under the new judging criteria control and aggression mean almost zero and that Usman had no effective grappling under the new rules, right? A lot of people make the mistake of being stuck thinking about the old judging criteria and they see a fighter push the pace and go forward and think they're winning.

The (relatively) new judging criteria are very clear. Damage is what counts, when it's effective striking and grappling. Only, and only if all of those are COMPLETELY equal do secondary things like octagon control come into account.
I hear ya, and can see the argument.

I just didn’t see much effective damage from either of them.

Am not saying either are not skilled, just not compelling or exciting fighters for my taste, and not a glorified point fighting / lay and pray style fan. So neither are big draws for me.
post 1679199493 03-18-2023, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted By akmerle⏩
I hear ya, and can see the argument.

I just didn’t see much effective damage from either of them.

Am not saying either are not skilled, just not compelling or exciting fighters for my taste, and not a glorified point fighting / lay and pray style fan. So neither are big draws for me.
Oh they're both not my personal favourites either, I just think it's a bit disrespectful to dismiss their level. They're both very skilled, just a bit safe fighters that generally don't have the most exciting finishes. Regarding damage, just look at all of those kicks that Leon landed, that one knee and a few punches and elbows. I'm pretty sure Usman was visibly rocked at least once. You don't need to see blood to have damage.

Sorry for calling you a retard btw I do understand it's bad for the discussion in general and it'll never improve any situation.
post 1679200283 03-18-2023, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
Oh they're both not my personal favourites either, I just think it's a bit disrespectful to dismiss their level. They're both very skilled, just a bit safe fighters that generally don't have the most exciting finishes. Regarding damage, just look at all of those kicks that Leon landed, that one knee and a few punches and elbows. I'm pretty sure Usman was visibly rocked at least once. You don't need to see blood to have damage.

Sorry for calling you a retard btw I do understand it's bad for the discussion in general and it'll never improve any situation.
Guess that’s just it for me, and trust me I understand damage outside of what’s visible on their face, but I did not see any where Usman was obviously damaged, let alone rocked by much anything. Or especially not damaged or rocked enough to overcome a point deduction in a round I think he lost.

I felt the takedowns, and octagon control of moving forward / bringing the fight were enough. But that’s just me.

Fighting off the back foot / moving away like Leon has a tendency to do naturally takes away from damage inflicted, and I tend to give more credit for take down attempts vs takedowns defended since it much harder….. but don’t get me started on the lack of level change or lack of chain wrestling on Usmans part.

And again, if you leave it to the judges in the champs home arena, you can’t leave ANY question. Usman needed to win convincingly (as any challenger should), but looked flat and was not dynamic at all. Maybe Father Time indeed came a knocking.
post 1679200683 03-18-2023, 08:21 PM
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At the end of the day, it was a close fight with several rounds that could have gone either way. I think there were only a round or two where it was clear and obvious who won the round.

I think of the middle 3 rounds, at least one judge scored round 2,3, and 4 for Usman, however 2 of them gave leon 2 of the 3 rounds. Close fight.
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post 1679201243 03-18-2023, 08:31 PM
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Here's the scorecards, the judges only agreed on rounds 1 and 5, which makes sense to me, those were the only decisive rounds.

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post 1679202043 03-18-2023, 08:46 PM
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Too bad Leon is already ducking Colby.
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post 1679202173 03-18-2023, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
It was more of a response to the thing you were responding to, taking the entire thing into account. I don't think I've ever called you a retard anywhere btw, just the guy you quoted.

Anyway to respond to your other thing with the Khabib quote. Just look at Anderson's first UFC loss, Fedor's first loss, Aldo after losing to Conor. The only GOAT candidate who came back from a loss is GSP and that was an early career loss and it completely changed him and his style too. So yeah that's a good point, once somebody is getting old and is leaving his prime behind, don't hope for a comeback. It's over and they'll never be on their old level again.
Thanks for clarifying, I misunderstood, working on it.

Yea, that statement from Khabib really made me think. It is really hard to find examples of exceptions to that quote of fighters that have become champions, defended it at least once and regained it after losing, yes I'm intentionally ignoring Amanda Nunes because WMMA doesn't count. Randy Couture's career was very unusual winning, losing, and regaining titles multiple times in multiple divisions so he never really had a "peak". Otherwise I can't think of anyone else. While someone like Conor can continue to fight and make tons of money badly losing fights, he will never be king of the mountain again and the toll of continuing to try will become greater and greater on his physical and mental health.

GSP did take a couple loses early but never after he defended his title. What I find very interesting that wouldn't happen today, is after Matt Hughes schooled him in his first title fight he took 5 more fights before trying again.
post 1679202363 03-18-2023, 08:51 PM
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Lol Colby is actually gonna get the next title shot. LMAO Colby is gonna be the next champion.
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post 1679202983 03-18-2023, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted By taskmob⏩
Lol Colby is actually gonna get the next title shot. LMAO Colby is gonna be the next champion.
I feel bad for Belal.

Can only think there was some deal with Colby to give him show money for making weight and that if he dropped the charges / won’t cooperate with investigation on Jorge, that they would give him the next shot if Leon won.

Not to get ahead, but Colby vs Khamzat would be fun AF
post 1679203303 03-18-2023, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted By akmerle⏩
All good.

At the end of the day, you HAVE to know that if you leave it to the judges then you need to convincingly beat the champ, especially in his home arena. That’s basic Fighting 101 schit.

It was a close fight, and am not upset over Leon winning, just not how I happened to score it…… while drinking all day here in San Pedro, lol. So who knows, I could be totally off.

Glad Justin won too. Super close fight, and didn’t look good for him at all after R1. Definitely think if it was a 5 Round fight that Justin would have made it a bit more convincing. Was surprised at how damaged Raph’s face was. Both guys fought tough.
Are you in Belize on vacation or do you live there. I was drinking too so maybe that is why we both scored it for Usman, but the decision was completely fair. The rounds were very close and difficult to score so I think it is appropriate to favor the champ in those cases

Yea that Justin fight was the highlight for many reasons. It was a nonstop exciting fight and Justin definitely had his hands full getting walloped early and responded accordingly with increased violence and when it came down to the second half of the 3rd with the fight still undecided, let it all go on the kid like he had never seen to show him he isn't ready for that level. I also loved that he took the fight acknowledging that this endless lightweight top 5 circle jerk is f'ed up and needs to end, but he proved he deserves to stay there unlike Chandler.
post 1679203393 03-18-2023, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted By dingler⏩
Too bad Leon is already ducking Colby.
Colby is ducking everybody.
post 1679203413 03-18-2023, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By akmerle⏩
I feel bad for Belal.

Can only think there was some deal with Colby to give him show money for making weight and that if he dropped the charges / won’t cooperate with investigation on Jorge, that they would give him the next shot if Leon won.

Not to get ahead, but Colby vs Khamzat would be fun AF
belal was getting destroyed by leon before the eye poke, i don't think he's on the same level as these guys, though at this point he's deserving to fight someone in top 5, not title shot though.
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post 1679203623 03-18-2023, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
Jones too. He lost to Reyes but it wasn't a terrible loss and he probably convinced himself he won so I guess it's different
Brah, you do realize Jones did win that fight right? I'm beginning to worry that you aren't just f'n around and are actually stuck in this alternate reality unable to accept, right or wrong that Jones officially won the fight and it isn't going to change.
post 1679203693 03-18-2023, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted By Cartiac⏩
Brah, you do realize Jones did win that fight right? I'm beginning to worry that you aren't just f'n around and are actually stuck in this alternate reality unable to accept, right or wrong that Jones officially won the fight and it isn't going to change.
There's not a single credible analyst who thinks Jones won that fight.


Anyone who thinks Jones won is a fanboy. It's not even a question, he lost 3 rounds. He lost the fight lmao




muh 'officiality'. Yeah then I guess Jones lost to Matt Hamill. What a great comeback by Jones!
post 1679203793 03-18-2023, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
At the end of the day, it was a close fight with several rounds that could have gone either way. I think there were only a round or two where it was clear and obvious who won the round.

I think of the middle 3 rounds, at least one judge scored round 2,3, and 4 for Usman, however 2 of them gave leon 2 of the 3 rounds. Close fight.
Did you rewatch it?

I thought it was very close live but after rewatching it I give all rounds to Leon, and I predicted 48-47 so it's not like I want that to be the case.
post 1679203883 03-18-2023, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By Cartiac⏩
Brah, you do realize Jones did win that fight right? I'm beginning to worry that you aren't just f'n around and are actually stuck in this alternate reality unable to accept, right or wrong that Jones officially won the fight and it isn't going to change.
the confidence in "anyone who saw it differently than me is an idiot" amazes me.

Another close fight that could score either way. Only after watching and re-watching, a luxury the judges don't have, might someone develop a confident opinion in a close fight.
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post 1679204413 03-18-2023, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Cartiac⏩
Are you in Belize on vacation or do you live there. I was drinking too so maybe that is why we both scored it for Usman, but the decision was completely fair. The rounds were very close and difficult to score so I think it is appropriate to favor the champ in those cases

Yea that Justin fight was the highlight for many reasons. It was a nonstop exciting fight and Justin definitely had his hands full getting walloped early and responded accordingly with increased violence and when it came down to the second half of the 3rd with the fight still undecided, let it all go on the kid like he had never seen to show him he isn't ready for that level. I also loved that he took the fight acknowledging that this endless lightweight top 5 circle jerk is f'ed up and needs to end, but he proved he deserves to stay there unlike Chandler.
Just here on vacation. Cool place. Interesting culture.
Originally Posted By Zere0wn⏩
belal was getting destroyed by leon before the eye poke, i don't think he's on the same level as these guys, though at this point he's deserving to fight someone in top 5, not title shot though.
If not Belal, then who? If Khamzat can make the weight, then that’s who I’d prefer. Considering how their first fight ended unceremoniously, and how Belal at least has stayed active and has won 4 straight fights since their NC. I feel his case is MUCH better than Colby’s.

Colby is 2-2 in his last 4, with his wins over a washed Jorge and and even more washed Woodley. But then again, he is a much bigger draw than Belal (and Leon), so can see where the UFC would want to give it to him.

Then have Belal / Burns / Khamzat / Shavkat in the que in the future for more fun match ups.
post 1679205153 03-18-2023, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted By Barteh⏩
TDD isn't "effective grappling" so it's extremely obvious it should not be scored.
Oh I get it, with these rules it shouldn't be scored. What im saying is the rules could be changed a bit. Will never happen tho. At this point it is what it is
post 1679205403 03-18-2023, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted By ninetynine8⏩
There's not a single credible analyst who thinks Jones won that fight.

Anyone who thinks Jones won is a fanboy. It's not even a question, he lost 3 rounds. He lost the fight lmao

muh 'officiality'. Yeah then I guess Jones lost to Matt Hamill. What a great comeback by Jones!
Dang, I was expecting a lighthearted response, but you are really serious about this for some very strange reason. We all have our demons I guess.
post 1679205563 03-18-2023, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Cartiac⏩
Dang, I was expecting a lighthearted response, but you are really serious about this for some very strange reason. We all have our demons I guess.
no u
post 1679208713 03-19-2023, 01:57 AM
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Headshot dead
post 1679209183 03-19-2023, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted By mryamamoto⏩
Who in particular?
all the prime contenders. burns, khamzat, belal, even edwards before he became champ.
post 1679212643 03-19-2023, 06:21 AM
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I don't see Marty getting another title shot ever again

Leon just laid the blueprint to beating him and keeping him at baywhat a game plan!
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post 1679212753 03-19-2023, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted By trainreqq⏩
I don't see Marty getting another title shot ever again

Leon just laid the blueprint to beating him and keeping him at baywhat a game plan!
The blue print for usman isn't something simple like leg kicks in regards to McGregor. It requires immaculate takedown defense and better striking. That's easier said than done lmao

but yeah usman isn't beating edwards, and he's on the decline so he should retire.
post 1679214563 03-19-2023, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted By akmerle⏩
Just here on vacation. Cool place. Interesting culture.



If not Belal, then who? If Khamzat can make the weight, then that’s who I’d prefer. Considering how their first fight ended unceremoniously, and how Belal at least has stayed active and has won 4 straight fights since their NC. I feel his case is MUCH better than Colby’s.

Colby is 2-2 in his last 4, with his wins over a washed Jorge and and even more washed Woodley. But then again, he is a much bigger draw than Belal (and Leon), so can see where the UFC would want to give it to him.

Then have Belal / Burns / Khamzat / Shavkat in the que in the future for more fun match ups.
colby's narrow loss (many thoughty won) to usman and dominance over masvidal are more impressive than any of belals fights, i think hes a fine choice. id be fine seeing belal get it too, but probably wouldnt watch.
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Not sure who he "should" face even matters, colby clearly has been promised a shot. Dana said it last night in the post-fight, and you can tell by colby's reaction he was promised it if leon wins:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yF6jfLKecFw

course leon is obviously going to want the easier fight of belal or masvidal
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post 1679218473 03-19-2023, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted By Scorpion613⏩
I had a feeling that Edwards would dominate him...useman came out flat. He no longer had that chip on his shoulder or arrogance. Well deserved win for Leon.

I put $100 on decision win, but in hindsight should have put more...

He seemed to have that kind of fake arrogance while not actually having the real confidence.
post 1679241793 03-19-2023, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted By mryamamoto⏩
I remember him calling out all those guys, maybe except for Muhammad, which is a high risk, low reward (in terms of attention and ranking) fight for anyone.

Also, isn't Khamzat going up in weight?
Calling them out... And then not fighting them. Khamzat is going up weight now yes, I guess we can replace him with shavkat.
Covington is 35 going on 36. He knows he has maybe a year or two left in the sport and his schtick has been somewhat wearing thin. So he'll be doing the smartest decisions for his career.
So then we agree? He's ducking fighters. He doesn't deserve a title shot for beating journeyman Masvidal. But he'll get one because it's the ufc
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